GAME 5 NBA FINALS: DALLAS MAVERICKS (1-4) vs BOSTON CELTICS (4-1)

[SleepingHero]

I think there's zero chance that happens without 12 steps, and zero chance he gets to 12 steps unless someone he cares about convinces him 100% that his life has become unmanageable.

Counterpoint, Luka was a healthy knee from him drinking/smoking/whatever to that not even mattering. 

Jordan used to stay up till 6 am the night before a game gambling and smoking cigars and no one cared. Luka can do whatever the hell he wants if it allows him to continue being this good. Obviously giving up beer/liquor will help. But the dude also has to live.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Boston held Dallas under 100 pts in 4 out of the 5 games. That's something I didn't imagine. Gotta give their defense credit.

[BolsDamols]

Counterpoint, Luka was a healthy knee from him drinking/smoking/whatever to that not even mattering. 

Jordan used to stay up till 6 am the night before a game gambling and smoking cigars and no one cared. Luka can do whatever the hell he wants if it allows him to continue being this good. Obviously giving up beer/liquor will help. But the dude also has to live.

If it affects his conditioning and his fitness level, he definitely has to give it up (in addition to eating healthy). Sacrifices have to be made in order to be great.  Dirk didnt drink the whole of 2011 season and then drank that champagne bottle when they won the championship.

Easier said than done of course. What do I know, I haven't even completed Step 1 of the 12 steps.

[audiosway]

Did y'all see that OMax defense right there???

I'm so excited for that dude next season.

I did. He looks fantastic. The Mavs have an incredible future ahead of them. This was an invaluable experience for them. Great season and they are ahead of schedule. The guys are young and now know what it takes to get this far. This feeling of being this close will make them great.

They need to add some snipers to come off the bench. I'm 100% on board with Kidd as the coach. He has come into his own. Boston will have trouble repeating since I think Horford will retire. PJ will have an offseason to work on being better at the 3 position along with growth from Lively and Gaff. This is the best the future has looked in Dallas in a long time.

[SleepingHero]

If it affects his conditioning and his fitness level, he definitely has to give it up (in addition to eating healthy). Sacrifices have to be made in order to be great.  Dirk didnt drink the whole of 2011 season and then drank that champagne bottle when they won the championship.

Easier said than done of course. What do I know, I haven't even completed Step 1 of the 12 steps.

I know people love to harp on Luka's conditioning but the dude basically averaged 40+ mpg and carried the team every game. He had a bad Boston series no doubt, but I think that was less on his conditioning and more on the talent differential from Boston's role players. Luka could never take a break against Boston. 

You know what player had horrible conditioning and it showed? Anthony Edwards. He was literally sucking oxygen on the bench against the Mavs while Luka decimated that whole team.

[SwisherPrice]

It's always going to be about conditioning for Luka...I believe he will mature and eventually stop complaining to the refs the older he gets. But I have no clue if he can be an elite conditioned athlete for an 82 game season + the 2 month playoff run required to be a champion. We've seen him get fit in the short term for international tournaments but keeping it going for almost an entire year is the challenge.

Even though he's friends with Jokic, I don't think they are the same. Jokic knew he needed to change his body in order to become an MVP/HOF-caliber player. Luka knows he can stay the same right now and be a HOF player no matter what while just hoping they put a great roster around him every year

[Reunion Mav]

I still love my Mavs but I feel a little bit of their pain too. That pain seems to be what drove the Celtics to a win so if we respond well as a team maybe we can too.

[ThisIStheYear]

It would be huge if PJ could go from a 32/33 three point shooter to a 37/38 three point shooter in our offense.  If so, there wouldn’t be many better non star two way players.  He is streaky though.  If he can decamp that than we just need that one more really good wing.

The key to winning a title is Tatum going from 3rd best starter to 5th best. Mavs need a complimentary power wing who is significantly better than PJ. That, plus Luka finding a higher level and DLive’s natural progression, should put them over the top, depending on how much Kyrie declines due to age over the next two years.

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/NationMffl/status/18...5244955749

@NationMffl
Kyrie Irving waited for every one of his Mavs teammates to walk off the floor…

Dallas will always love Kai

[dirkfansince1998]

I know people love to harp on Luka's conditioning but the dude basically averaged 40+ mpg and carried the team every game. He had a bad Boston series no doubt, but I think that was less on his conditioning and more on the talent differential from Boston's role players. Luka could never take a break against Boston. 

You know what player had horrible conditioning and it showed? Anthony Edwards. He was literally sucking oxygen on the bench against the Mavs while Luka decimated that whole team.

His conditioning is fine up until the point where he starts to collect minor injuries. I think that is what slows him down more than anything else. Would assume that it also has an impact on his weight. Difficult enough to fit training sessions into the regular season schedule. Even worse when you have to include off days because the ankle/knee just isn't responding well. Training volume goes down and if he isn't adjusting his eating/drinking habits accordingly his overall conditioning suffers even more.

[JasonKidding]

FUCK...JASON...KIDD.

If anyone even even thinks they can argue that wasn't the worst roster management of any finals series, I want nothing to do with you.

That is all.  


Team is awesome, had a chance of winning, hamstrung by terrible coaching, period.


See you next year, hopefully Luka will get surgery and recover instead of playing in the Olympics, but of course he will.

[ThisIStheYear]

That is such a bullshit argument.

John Stockton, Steve Nash, Barkley, Malone, and all the greats that didn't win a ring weren't great players? By your definition, Dirk wasn't a great player until 2011! That's loony.

Luka is already at that level of great. He WILL win. And I think it's going to happen (as always with Luka) sooner than we think.

Those guys were very good. Maybe the Jordan/Hakeem era guys who came up short get an exception because two players won all the titles, but in this new era, where players are just winning one title, if you don’t get one, your credentials will be suspect. Luka will get there, hopefully with the Mavs. He has the stats and all NBA teams, though 52 wins as your greatest regular season is also below standard. Next year, Luka will at least need to put a great regular season notch on his belt, if not the title notch. Those are the two credentials he lacks.

[ThisIStheYear]

this doesn't hurt nearly as bad as 2006 at least
some comfort in knowing that the Celtics are a much superior team

2006 hurt because it was a robbery by vengeful, corrupt officials. This one hurts just because the Mavs didn’t show up. They got smoked and were hardly competitive at all. They performed well below their potential.

[audiosway]

2006 hurt because it was a robbery by vengeful, corrupt officials. This one hurts just because the Mavs didn’t show up. They got smoked and were hardly competitive at all. They performed well below their potential.

2006 hurt bad. It was straight up robbed from Dallas. This one doesn't really hurt that bad for me. They are ahead of schedule. I knew the big trade was a step in the right direction but I didn't think they would be this good this fast. They have a loaded young roster that literally just needs player growth and adding a couple of bench assassins.

Now that they know what to expect in the Finals I expect them to take care of business next year provided they stay healthy.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

2006 was depressing as hell.

This year I didn’t think we had much of a chance.

Not even close.

[KillerLeft]

Welp...tonight was disappointing. 

Not one single player played well, really. 

Green's shot was on (and boy did they need that) but I thought it was a poor defensive game from him. While he was hitting those first quarter shots, he was simultaneously losing Derek White on the other end, and unlike Green, once HE got going, he was going to play enough minutes for that to matter. Also, lots of weird falling asleep from Green with shots in the air. He gave up a ton of offensive rebounds. Also, he might have been the single worst 1-on-1 defender (other than Lively) of Tatum in this series. Still, he was probably what passed for the team's best level of play tonight, relative to expectations. 

Lively was BAD. Like, really, really bad. So bad that Kidd opted to bring Gafford back in for a significant stretch of the 2nd, when Lively would normally play, and I wrote down in my notes that I agreed with the decision. Of all the nits I can pick with Kidd about this series, the strategy I believe blew up in their faces the most was to switch every ball screen Lively was involved with. They started the series like that and never, ever adjusted, despite it being abysmally ineffective, and a huge reason he didn't have a better series. I think the thought around here that Lively is a switch defender is incorrect. They didn't use him like that ALL SEASON, and then randomly decided to go that way in THE NBA FINALS. I understand the logic, but sadly, he wasn't up to it. He managed to do even worse when isolated on Tatum (which happened a ton) than even Luka or Green. Tonight, he was particularly ineffective, as there were several possessions wherein he had an opportunity to protect the rim as a help defender. Some nifty adjustments made that possible in Game 4 (Boston wasn't allowing him to be low man in games 1-2) and it really helped, but tonight it was like his head just wasn't in the game. Don't get me wrong - the kid is awesome, and will be a huge part of the team moving forward. I believe he'll be a shooter soon. I believe he'll continue to improve as a help defender and as a rim protector. I believe we have several more years of hustle plays and tough rebounds to look forward to from him. I do NOT believe he's ever going to be in any way comparable to a difference-making switch defender like Bam Adabayo. The Mavs are going to be a drop coverage team while he plays here (as they were through literally 100% of the regular season and through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs). That can work IF he punishes other teams on the glass, makes teams scared to shoot inside, etc. In THIS series, he wasn't ready to do that to a veteran Boston team (partly because he was always on the perimeter getting blown by) and tonight might've been his worst game of the series. 

Gafford was ok. Not great, but much better than I expected him to be at any point of this series. As like-minded as I was with Kidd when he gave Gafford a big chunk of Lively's minutes in the 2nd quarter, I ALSO agreed with the quick hook Gafford got in the 3rd. It was obvious Boston went into halftime and said "ok, they're going to play Gafford tonight? Bet. 5-out, baby!" Gafford simply cannot compete with that, foot-speed and change-of-direction wise. All in all, I'm still not sure doubling down with Lively AND Gafford in the rotation is the way, for a variety of reasons, but Gafford has exceeded my expectations for him in this series...I go back and forth on what to do about that almost daily. 

Exum was pretty meh again (more on that in a second).

Washington had a tough night. I don't think it was all his fault. Kidd was so turned around in this series he actually thought PJ bringing the ball up was a smart tactic to save Luka's legs (more on that in a second), and I thought PJ was also the recipient of a couple of atrocious calls, but he just didn't do enough tonight to help the team. MUST improve his shooting over the summer to become the perfect player for this team. 

DJJ had some moments, but the clock struck midnight on his shooting when we got to this series. If the Mavs do move heaven and earth to retain him, I hope there is room for improvement on his release on the catch-and-shoot, and that he isn't a finished product. 

Kleber was very good, defensively, with the exception of one three he gave up (against Holiday, I think) trying to stick with the screener a little too long. Unfortunately, he had a terrible one on offense. Just no confidence (more on that in second). 

THJ got some burn. I actually thought he played ok, but only on defense, ironically. He held up against Tatum 1-on-1 pretty damn well on two consecutive possessions. Once, Tatum hit a tough shot, the other was a bad missed forced by Hardaway. About halfway through his 4th quarter stretch, the Celtics found something with the matchups and kept trapping Hardaway in the low-man help position. I thought he held up ok for a possession or two, but he's obviously not suited for that role, defensively at his size. His effort statted to decrease in that situation as the clock drained and the lead stayed large. He had ONE good look at a three on offense, but DID NOT step into it and shoot confidently. Instead, he passed it up and tried some silly two-dribble sidestep in favor of a lower percentage look. Disappointing. What an odyssey of a polarizing Mavs career for him. And now, his watch has ended, for sure. 

When the series started, I thought this whole "Kyrie can't play well in Boston" thing was a joke. I'm not laughing anymore. For whatever reason, that seems legit to me. He was awful in all three Boston games, and pretty good in both Dallas games. Great season from him, but the clock is ticking. The Mavs needed more from him, I think. I hope he's able to have another healthy, normal, headline-free season of "just basketball" next season. 

Luka...he wasn't awful. He played ok on defense, by his standards. I know this isn't anyone's favorite topic around here, but I think that was kind of the problem with his offense. I think there are games when he's checked out on defense just because, and those suck, but my belief is that he CAN play defense, at least passably, and sometimes even well, but doesn't in most games because he's simply unable to exert that much energy physically on BOTH ends of the court. I thought Doris Burke and Redick made a great comparison to the season when Nikola Jokic didn't look physically able to handle this workload and then finally got really serious about his conditioning. He then rattled off 3 MVP's in four years, plus a championship. Luka CAN do that. I sure hope he will. Tonight, he didn't have enough, and it's not just about the missed shots. His PACE was nowhere remotely close to what we saw in Game 4, and I believe that played a huge role in the lack of rhythm-building and confidence-building looks for guys like Kleber, Exum and Lively that got them going in the previous game. Luka is special, but I feel it's very clear he has a ways to go before he can stand on top of the mountain as an NBA champion. 

Kidd got his taint coached off in this series. I'm not going to bash him all summer, because he has ALMOST won me over, but...here are some examples:

1) The Mavs found something tonight with double dragging to target KP and make him move his feet. If KP had played 30 minutes, they might've won this game. Where in hell was that in the first two games? At least in Game 2??? I feel like they had it ready "just in case" KP was to come back with the injury, which is smart, only I'm 98% sure it would've worked against healthy KP in games 1 and 2. Would've been my favorite set coming into the series, personally. 

2) It took Kidd THREE games (3!!) to figure out how to have the team pre-switch enough to get Lively in that low-man help position. Once he did, they dominated game 4. BOOM! Mazzulla has an answer for it right away in game 5 (predictable) and rather than COACH, Kidd had to resort to tinkering with lineups. There were things working for the Mavs IN THIS GAME that Mazzulla fixed DURING THIS GAME. 

Again, not going to harp on this all summer, because a lot of what Kidd is doing IS working. Basically, I think he's improving as a head coach. I think it's time to focus on the strategy part this summer and not just dust off the "this game is easy" and "I'm just watching" quotes. Like the criticism Luka is about to face, I think it's fair to say Kidd has some learning to do to prove he's not this era's Avery Johnson. This better-than-expected season has bought some good will from me, but next year, the expectations will be HIGH. 

Lastly, congrats to the freaking Boston Celtics. I hate their fans, and I hate many of their media personalities, and truth be told I'm starting to hate Tatum and Brown a bit (though not sure they deserve it - I might just be pissed). BUT, Holiday, White and especially Al Horford are all the right type of winning players. All guys you'd be super lucky to have on your team, and all deserving of this accomplishment. I'm happy for them, in a general sports fan sort of way. Boston really is a dominant team. They are one of the best defenses I've ever seen. 

GO MAVS! GREAT SEASON!

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Glad to see Horford get his 1st ring. Dude has always been a class act.

[omahen]

Boston is a better team and Mavs only chance was if Lukai would be best players, by far. They were not. But, Boston needed several years to mature to grab a title and Mavs are on a same path. They will be better next season

[KillerLeft]

Boston is a better team and Mavs only chance was if Lukai would be best players, by far. They were not. But, Boston needed several years to mature to grab a title and Mavs are on a same path. They will be better next season

So true. It's also worth trying to remember that as recently as February the Mavs looked like a play-in team while the Celtics were in the midst of dominating the entire NBA. Tough to swallow tonight, but this was Boston's year, and we should all try to enjoy the fact the Mavs are ahead of schedule (on this latest iteration, at least).

[audiosway]

Welp...tonight was disappointing. 

Not one single player played well, really. 

Green's shot was on (and boy did they need that) but I thought it was a poor defensive game from him. While he was hitting those first quarter shots, he was simultaneously losing Derek White on the other end, and unlike Green, once HE got going, he was going to play enough minutes for that to matter. Also, lots of weird falling asleep from Green with shots in the air. He gave up a ton of offensive rebounds. Also, he might have been the single worst 1-on-1 defender (other than Lively) of Tatum in this series. Still, he was probably what passed for the team's best level of play tonight, relative to expectations. 

Lively was BAD. Like, really, really bad. So bad that Kidd opted to bring Gafford back in for a significant stretch of the 2nd, when Lively would normally play, and I wrote down in my notes that I agreed with the decision. Of all the nits I can pick with Kidd about this series, the strategy I believe blew up in their faces the most was to switch every ball screen Lively was involved with. They started the series like that and never, ever adjusted, despite it being abysmally ineffective, and a huge reason he didn't have a better series. I think the thought around here that Lively is a switch defender is incorrect. They didn't use him like that ALL SEASON, and then randomly decided to go that way in THE NBA FINALS. I understand the logic, but sadly, he wasn't up to it. He managed to do even worse when isolated on Tatum (which happened a ton) than even Luka or Green. Tonight, he was particularly ineffective, as there were several possessions wherein he had an opportunity to protect the rim as a help defender. Some nifty adjustments made that possible in Game 4 (Boston wasn't allowing him to be low man in games 1-2) and it really helped, but tonight it was like his head just wasn't in the game. Don't get me wrong - the kid is awesome, and will be a huge part of the team moving forward. I believe he'll be a shooter soon. I believe he'll continue to improve as a help defender and as a rim protector. I believe we have several more years of hustle plays and tough rebounds to look forward to from him. I do NOT believe he's ever going to be in any way comparable to a difference-making switch defender like Bam Adabayo. The Mavs are going to be a drop coverage team while he plays here (as they were through literally 100% of the regular season and through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs). That can work IF he punishes other teams on the glass, makes teams scared to shoot inside, etc. In THIS series, he wasn't ready to do that to a veteran Boston team (partly because he was always on the perimeter getting blown by) and tonight might've been his worst game of the series. 

Gafford was ok. Not great, but much better than I expected him to be at any point of this series. As like-minded as I was with Kidd when he gave Gafford a big chunk of Lively's minutes in the 2nd quarter, I ALSO agreed with the quick hook Gafford got in the 3rd. It was obvious Boston went into halftime and said "ok, they're going to play Gafford tonight? Bet. 5-out, baby!" Gafford simply cannot compete with that, foot-speed and change-of-direction wise. All in all, I'm still not sure doubling down with Lively AND Gafford in the rotation is the way, for a variety of reasons, but Gafford has exceeded my expectations for him in this series...I go back and forth on what to do about that almost daily. 

Exum was pretty meh again (more on that in a second).

Washington had a tough night. I don't think it was all his fault. Kidd was so turned around in this series he actually thought PJ bringing the ball up was a smart tactic to save Luka's legs (more on that in a second), and I thought PJ was also the recipient of a couple of atrocious calls, but he just didn't do enough tonight to help the team. MUST improve his shooting over the summer to become the perfect player for this team. 

DJJ had some moments, but the clock struck midnight on his shooting when we got to this series. If the Mavs do move heaven and earth to retain him, I hope there is room for improvement on his release on the catch-and-shoot, and that he isn't a finished product. 

Kleber was very good, defensively, with the exception of one three he gave up (against Holiday, I think) trying to stick with the screener a little too long. Unfortunately, he had a terrible one on offense. Just no confidence (more on that in second). 

THJ got some burn. I actually thought he played ok, but only on defense, ironically. He held up against Tatum 1-on-1 pretty damn well on two consecutive possessions. Once, Tatum hit a tough shot, the other was a bad missed forced by Hardaway. About halfway through his 4th quarter stretch, the Celtics found something with the matchups and kept trapping Hardaway in the low-man help position. I thought he held up ok for a possession or two, but he's obviously not suited for that role, defensively at his size. His effort statted to decrease in that situation as the clock drained and the lead stayed large. He had ONE good look at a three on offense, but DID NOT step into it and shoot confidently. Instead, he passed it up and tried some silly two-dribble sidestep in favor of a lower percentage look. Disappointing. What an odyssey of a polarizing Mavs career for him. And now, his watch has ended, for sure. 

When the series started, I thought this whole "Kyrie can't play well in Boston" thing was a joke. I'm not laughing anymore. For whatever reason, that seems legit to me. He was awful in all three Boston games, and pretty good in both Dallas games. Great season from him, but the clock is ticking. The Mavs needed more from him, I think. I hope he's able to have another healthy, normal, headline-free season of "just basketball" next season. 

Luka...he wasn't awful. He played ok on defense, by his standards. I know this isn't anyone's favorite topic around here, but I think that was kind of the problem with his offense. I think there are games when he's checked out on defense just because, and those suck, but my belief is that he CAN play defense, at least passably, and sometimes even well, but doesn't in most games because he's simply unable to exert that much energy physically on BOTH ends of the court. I thought Doris Burke and Redick made a great comparison to the season when Nikola Jokic didn't look physically able to handle this workload and then finally got really serious about his conditioning. He then rattled off 3 MVP's in four years, plus a championship. Luka CAN do that. I sure hope he will. Tonight, he didn't have enough, and it's not just about the missed shots. His PACE was nowhere remotely close to what we saw in Game 4, and I believe that played a huge role in the lack of rhythm-building and confidence-building looks for guys like Kleber, Exum and Lively that got them going in the previous game. Luka is special, but I feel it's very clear he has a ways to go before he can stand on top of the mountain as an NBA champion. 

Kidd got his taint coached off in this series. I'm not going to bash him all summer, because he has ALMOST won me over, but...here are some examples:

1) The Mavs found something tonight with double dragging to target KP and make him move his feet. If KP had played 30 minutes, they might've won this game. Where in hell was that in the first two games? At least in Game 2??? I feel like they had it ready "just in case" KP was to come back with the injury, which is smart, only I'm 98% sure it would've worked against healthy KP in games 1 and 2. Would've been my favorite set coming into the series, personally. 

2) It took Kidd THREE games (3!!) to figure out how to have the team pre-switch enough to get Lively in that low-man help position. Once he did, they dominated game 4. BOOM! Mazzulla has an answer for it right away in game 5 (predictable) and rather than COACH, Kidd had to resort to tinkering with lineups. There were things working for the Mavs IN THIS GAME that Mazzulla fixed DURING THIS GAME. 

Again, not going to harp on this all summer, because a lot of what Kidd is doing IS working. Basically, I think he's improving as a head coach. I think it's time to focus on the strategy part this summer and not just dust off the "this game is easy" and "I'm just watching" quotes. Like the criticism Luka is about to face, I think it's fair to say Kidd has some learning to do to prove he's not this era's Avery Johnson. This better-than-expected season has bought some good will from me, but next year, the expectations will be HIGH. 

Lastly, congrats to the freaking Boston Celtics. I hate their fans, and I hate many of their media personalities, and truth be told I'm starting to hate Tatum and Brown a bit (though not sure they deserve it - I might just be pissed). BUT, Holiday, White and especially Al Horford are all the right type of winning players. All guys you'd be super lucky to have on your team, and all deserving of this accomplishment. I'm happy for them, in a general sports fan sort of way. Boston really is a dominant team. They are one of the best defenses I've ever seen. 

GO MAVS! GREAT SEASON!

Good overall synopsis. I think honestly that the moment was just a little too big for them. It's a very young team. Luka has never been this far in the playoffs.

Think of it this way. Luka went to the WCF a couple of years ago. This time he got there and nearly swept Minnesota. There is a reason players don't normally win a title at 24-25. It's a lot to take in. Then, there is the fact that this team has only really been together for 5 months. I do think Kidd can be slow to make adjustments. However, I don't know that there was much he could have done. This Boston team is just loaded. If Smart is still there instead of Jrue this series goes to 7. KP won game 1. Jrue won game 2. I personally think the refs won game 3. But, the bright side is that maybe Luka learned his lesson not to jaw with them. He won't win that battle.

Gafford and PJ have been on career bad teams. This their first taste of winning. Great off season ahead for those 2. I think PJ can become an all star. Lively too. That kid is going to be a beast.

If I were Nico, I would look at getting a couple of assassins from 3 for the bench. I would definitely resign DJJ. He's only 27 and has never really started before. I think he has a chance to grow as a shooter and his defense is stellar. I could see him being very Derrick White like.

Let the rest of the guys develop and grow. If you can trade THJ and push Powell off you definitely do it. I would try to get another young developmental 5 to replace Powell. Use the THJ money to resign DJJ and pick up a couple of sharp shooters. The Mavs are close right now. They just need growth and minor adjustments.

Another thing is that I think Horford will retire now. KP can't stay healthy. So, Boston may be back but I don't think they repeat. They took their lumps and grew into who they are now. All of the balls were bouncing their way and it was just their time to shine.