Trade & FA 2023-24: Sexton On the Market? | ORL Likes Hartenstein?

[SleepingHero]

OK, if the plane to keep DJJ involves trading Green and Hardaway in separate deals, I would like us to get back Caruso from CHI.

How do we make that happen?

Chicago wanted at minimum 2 FRP for Caruso at the TDL. 

I don't think he's worth that. Chicago is going to try and retain DeRozan too, so it's not like they're trying to bottom out, despite it making the most sense for them to do.

This summer will their price on Caruso change? I don't think by much. So I don't think he's a real target for the Mavs unless we want to spend our last 2 firsts for the significant future on him.

OR we could go for Thybulle who is the closest (if not better) than Caruso on defense, without an offensive game, younger, and is cheaper. 

Don't get me wrong if I could choose between the two its Caruso. But factoring cost to acquire I don't think there's a way.

[KillerLeft]

Chicago wanted at minimum 2 FRP for Caruso at the TDL. 

I don't think he's worth that. Chicago is going to try and retain DeRozan too, so it's not like they're trying to bottom out, despite it making the most sense for them to do.

Yeah, Chicago will Chicago. 

I would've sold off everything valuable on that team and started over years ago, the second I knew Lonzo Ball was done.

[omahen]

Thanks to Dan and Forrest for the TE info. Although, it didn't really bring me any ideas. It is very unlikely that Atlanta will use the TPE. BKN has more room, but can't take THJ before next season as it would put them over the first apron. I would love to trade THJ and 2025 for a pick in 2024, but BKN has zero picks this year. Not really enthusiastic about their role players. I guess those MLE available opens more options for the new season.

[DallasMaverick]

One thing that's finally starting to be worth discussing, relative to guys like Caruso:

It's starting to be possible that guys at that stage of their careers might WANT to play here. I know that doesn't mean their teams will just hand them over, but I do think the player/agent's outlook on what's possible for them plays a bigger part in the transaction periods of each season than what is publicly discussed.

Which leads to another question:

How does Dallas keep payroll low enough that they can sign a premium stretch-waived or released veteran?

[KillerLeft]

Which leads to another question:

How does Dallas keep payroll low enough that they can sign a premium stretch-waived or released veteran?

I think the days of them "signing" anyone over the MLE are over, at least as long as Luka, Kyrie and Lively are in place. I haven't checked the contract lengths lately, so it's possible they've planned for some cap room the summer Luka's current deal ends, sort of like what Miami did with Dwayne Wade. 

But, I think we'll start to see them get more of the exception guys they want, and more of the veteran minimum guys they want, and I think Kyrie is a big part of that.

In my earlier point, I just meant that I don't think teams trade for players who don't want to play for them much anymore, especially north of a certain status level. In league circles, they don't even call them "trades" they call them "transfers" like the whole thing is a corporation and the dudes are just relocating from being a shift lead at the Salt Lake City Staples to be a store manager at the Charlotte Staples, lol. I think the player's wishes are taken into account much more than we realize.

[SleepingHero]

I think the days of them "signing" anyone over the MLE are over, at least as long as Luka, Kyrie and Lively are in place. I haven't checked the contract lengths lately, so it's possible they've planned for some cap room the summer Luka's current deal ends, sort of like what Miami did with Dwayne Wade. 

But, I think we'll start to see them get more of the exception guys they want, and more of the veteran minimum guys they want, and I think Kyrie is a big part of that.

In my earlier point, I just meant that I don't think teams trade for players who don't want to play for them much anymore, especially north of a certain status level. In league circles, they don't even call them "trades" they call them "transfers" like the whole thing is a corporation and the dudes are just relocating from being a shift lead at the Salt Lake City Staples to be a store manager at the Charlotte Staples, lol. I think the player's wishes are taken into account much more than we realize.

Funny you say this because in Zach Lowe's recent insider article he wrote this paragraph:

The Knicks, like Boston when the Celtics struck the White deal, were barely over .500. Despite their hoarding extra first-rounders, an average New York team trading its own pick for a shaky-shooting role player seemed to some rival observers as overexuberant.

Hart, like White, was 27 at the time of the trade. He instantly became a defining Knick. New York was confident it could re-sign Hart on a long-term deal; Hart had told Portland the Knicks were his preferred destination, and the Blazers worked to send Hart there -- never opening trade talks to the entire league, sources said.

[myconsumerclub]

so what do we got to do to get Jokic when he wants to come play in Dallas with Luka and Kyrie

[The Jom]

Don’t know if this is still true. But back in the day I recall reading that minimum guys make enough more during extended playoff runs that it really is financially significant for them to be on a contender.

[Knutsen]

so what do we got to do to get Jokic when he wants to come play in Dallas with Luka and Kyrie

I‘m not holding out for the chubby-yugo-buddies pairing of Luka and Nikola.

But my Giannis-dream is well and alive, because matching the best offensive player with the best defensive player would be a treat. I watched the Giannis-biography on Amazon Prime a couple of days ago, awesome story and a great, down to earth guy.

[MAVS-SLO]

Then you would have to add Kuzma I guess. Read yesterday that the Wizards want to trade him this summer. Maybe he likes us now after we proved him wrong that we’re too far away of really competing…

I think the bigger question is if the FO still wants him after he rejected a move at the TDL

I would also add Wiggins and Bruce Brown on that list.

 I think priority this offseason have to be to resign DJJ. After that we will much easier look and serach for a players to trade for.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Thanks to Dan and Forrest for the TE info. Although, it didn't really bring me any ideas. It is very unlikely that Atlanta will use the TPE. BKN has more room, but can't take THJ before next season as it would put them over the first apron. I would love to trade THJ and 2025 for a pick in 2024, but BKN has zero picks this year. Not really enthusiastic about their role players. I guess those MLE available opens more options for the new season.

Great minds….

I looked at Tankathon the other day for just such a deal.  Utah is an obvious candidate that I came across first and then I ran out of time to keep looking (I was traveling in Norway…I have a newfound admiration for you guys who post and watch games on a European timeline.  3 hours in the middle of the night to watch a game is a bitch).

Our 2025 and THJ for their #32 feels like something Utah would do.  The future first is more valuable to them than a third pick in this draft and THJ can be a placeholder for that space until the TDL or later depending on what happens with LM.  Dallas gets another 2nd rounder (possibly at a reduced rate, though at that level in the 2nd they often use part of the MLE to sign a second).  You also move all of THJ’s salary (unless you try to do a trade or S&T for someone like Kris Dunn to use some of that space).  

The deal would have to be held over to July 1st just like they did last year with OKC.  There may be other similar possibilities, but that was the only one I had time to look at.

[F Gump]

Our 2025 and THJ for their #32 feels like something Utah would do.  The future first is more valuable to them than a third pick in this draft and THJ can be a placeholder for that space until the TDL or later depending on what happens with LM.  Dallas gets another 2nd rounder (possibly at a reduced rate, though at that level in the 2nd they often use part of the MLE to sign a second).  You also move all of THJ’s salary (unless you try to do a trade or S&T for someone like Kris Dunn to use some of that space).  

The deal would have to be held over to July 1st just like they did last year with OKC.  There may be other similar possibilities, but that was the only one I had time to look at.

Interesting idea.

Re pick 32
1 Mavs contract choice would not be limited to 2-year minimum. If they prefer, there's a new 2nd-round exception that allows for 3 or 4 year contracts, with the 1st year able to be a bit bigger and more flexibility of guarantees and options in ensuing years.
2 I have to think that, considering the weakness of this draft, the Mavs' desire to have that pick would greatly depend on who is there. If the answer is "no one we like," then I would think they would do something else. There's no value in wasting payroll on a player you don't want. An empty slot is better.

Also, I'd expect the outgoing 2025 pick to have significant protection (because it will be acquired with an imputed value of a low 1st), with a default to a future 2nd.

[Jason Terry]

Violation of rule 1. Don’t trade with danny ainge

I’m still holding out hope for picks 47 or 53. Orlando or Detroit. Find a project we really like with one of those picks

Nico/Lindsey can easily cook with: expiring THJ, pick 58, and future 2nds

How many would have said it was an impossibility to dump Bertans last summer(with more than one year left)? Well, we did it with ease. THJ is no issue

I can’t fathom trading 2025 for a non-established player and leaving ourselves nothing good to use at the 2025 TDL and not having that extra pick for a big move summer/draft 2025

[KillerLeft]

How many would have said it was an impossibility to dump Bertans last summer(with more than one year left)? Well, we did it with ease. THJ is no issue 

How true!

Finding trades that work is about catching the intersections of multiple teams' agendas and in such a way that doesn't conflict too much with multiple players' agendas. It's about circumstances as much or more than it's about value. 

The Mavs have been trying and unable to find a taker for THJ for a couple of years now, that's true. But, it's because they've been trying to PACKAGE him with dead weight (last summer it was the rotting corpse of JaVale McGee and his atrocious guaranteed money). That can't be taken as a reflection of THJ's pure value in a vacuum. 

The shame of where things are, currently, is that the first half of this season was VERY good for THJ, and I bet the trade deadline was one his highest water marks, value-wise, in quite some time. If you look at what Hield went for, that might've been the time to move him. I felt at the time that Hardaway would play an integral role down the stretch and in the playoffs for this team, and apparently, the Mavs did, too. But, getting knocked down a peg or two in the rotation (even further from his old starting spot) seemed to mess with his mindset, focus, confidence...whatever. It affected him negatively, somehow. I can find no other explanation for how he's fallen off of a cliff. So, this summer might be his lowest water mark, value-wise, though maybe not - he is an expiring contract of a useful size. 

I actually think he's doing his best right now, in the playoffs, to play the role and minutes he's being given to positive effect, but it's kind of too little too late. He just wasn't able to get his head right with the new, post trade deadline reality of the team, even when the new reality started to succeed. That's on him.

Now, on top of everything else, Hardy is getting the role in the WCF that Hardaway seems to have not thought precious enough to seize down the stretch. He might've even turned his nose up at it a bit, taken it for granted, but that's just speculation. Now, even that support role has been stolen from him. For the first time since we've been discussing the polarizing THJ all these years, I'm confident he won't be a Mav next season. I doubt anyone wants him in that locker room next year.

[SleepingHero]

Evan Sidery (@esidery)
The Jazz are expected to shop John Collins in trade talks this offseason.

Collins averaged 15.1 points and 8.5 rebounds while shooting 37.1% on threes.

The 26-year-old forward has two years remaining on his deal, which includes a player option, making $26.6 million annually.

[Jym]

Evan Sidery (@esidery)
The Jazz are expected to shop John Collins in trade talks this offseason.

Collins averaged 15.1 points and 8.5 rebounds while shooting 37.1% on threes.

The 26-year-old forward has two years remaining on his deal, which includes a player option, making $26.6 million annually.

Remember when we thought Collins at center would be a good idea?

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Remember when we thought Collins at center would be a good idea?

Like it was yesterday. Or last trade deadline at least. But also a thousand lifetimes ago?

[omahen]

Great minds….

I looked at Tankathon the other day for just such a deal.  Utah is an obvious candidate that I came across first and then I ran out of time to keep looking (I was traveling in Norway…I have a newfound admiration for you guys who post and watch games on a European timeline.  3 hours in the middle of the night to watch a game is a bitch).

Our 2025 and THJ for their #32 feels like something Utah would do.  The future first is more valuable to them than a third pick in this draft and THJ can be a placeholder for that space until the TDL or later depending on what happens with LM.  Dallas gets another 2nd rounder (possibly at a reduced rate, though at that level in the 2nd they often use part of the MLE to sign a second).  You also move all of THJ’s salary (unless you try to do a trade or S&T for someone like Kris Dunn to use some of that space).  

The deal would have to be held over to July 1st just like they did last year with OKC.  There may be other similar possibilities, but that was the only one I had time to look at.

Utah also has #29. Mavs can't trade 2025 pick on draft night unless they get 2024 FRP back. If they don't get the 2024 FRP, they could agree behind closed door that the team is drafting for Mavs and then actually trade the rookie in July. But I don't think these kind of moves ever happen.

Edit: are you sure that OKC deal with Bertans wasn't finalized until July? Because that would also mean, that on draft night, Sacramento was sending Holmes into TE that was not there yet until July. What if the OKC-Mavs deal would go sour for whatever reason? If teams are ok doing such deals, that opens up a lot of possibilities

[RGP1981]

Remember when we thought Collins at center would be a good idea?

Yes, I remember!   

I always said it was a horrible idea.

[SleepingHero]

Utah also has #29. Mavs can't trade 2025 pick on draft night unless they get 2024 FRP back. If they don't get the 2024 FRP, they could agree behind closed door that the team is drafting for Mavs and then actually trade the rookie in July. But I don't think these kind of moves ever happen.

Edit: are you sure that OKC deal with Bertans wasn't finalized until July? Because that would also mean, that on draft night, Sacramento was sending Holmes into TE that was not there yet until July. What if the OKC-Mavs deal would go sour for whatever reason? If teams are ok doing such deals, that opens up a lot of possibilities

Teams agree to trades that are completed later all the time. The Anthony Davis to the Lakers trade took until August to officially finalize because the Lakers were star hunting. 

Typically once trades are agreed upon, they're completed. Unless a player's health is misrepresented or something. Which is rare.