Trade & FA 2023-24: HOU Targeting Mikal Bridges again!| Mitchell is LAL #1 Target

[mvossman]

This is certainly a concept that could make sense. Perhaps Atlanta likes Griffin too much, but there are other interesting youngsters. Or protected FPR. I just don't believe 2 SRP can be enough to bring Dallas into the deal.

Then don't do it.  Let somebody else get involved.  I could definitely see where Atlanta has a higher asking price straight up than they do when facilitating getting Siakam.

[KillerLeft]

I'm honestly on the fence of THJ for Capella.  Great teams have at least 2 superstars and at least 2 players who can dependably give you 20pts when their number is called.  THJ is our only player that gives us that right now.  Hardy will be that also, but can't be relied upon to do it now.

I’m with you about THJ, and I’ll flat out SAY that Hardy would be a drop off from him, at least for this year.

But, if you like Hardy and believe in him like the Mavs seem to, you have to give him a chance before this first contract is up. That can be argued as part of the benefit here, and surely factors into them shopping THJ in the first place.

I wouldn’t trade THJ just to trade him - that’s dumb. But, Capela WOULD start here and DOES give yet another resource that aids in the mission of being fairly competitive now while simultaneously bringing Lively along the right way.

[SleepingHero]

IF Dallas sends out an unprotected 1st, what would the odds be that they can get Bey routed to Dallas. That would address the two needs they feel they have for the one asset.

As much as I'd love to send Bey to Dallas, no shot Toronto is doing this deal unless they get the best forwards.

[omahen]

IF Dallas sends out an unprotected 1st, what would the odds be that they can get Bey routed to Dallas. That would address the two needs they feel they have for the one asset.

Another possible concept that makes sense. I doubt Mavs can get better without 2027 involved. So they either stay where they are or put that pick on the table. But only Capela is not enough for that pick.

[KillerLeft]

IF Dallas sends out an unprotected 1st, what would the odds be that they can get Bey routed to Dallas. That would address the two needs they feel they have for the one asset.

I like Bey a lot. Don’t like him as a 3. Kammrath and I argued for an entire summer about this. He thought Bey’s athletic profile was underwhelming for an NBA 3, and I argued that he’d be a 4 in the league. So far, that’s what he has been.

Point being, that puts you back to “who’s coming off the bench, Williams or Bey?” Imo, at least. Not opposed, other than I really think those bench minutes should already be going to Omax.

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As much as I'd love to send Bey to Dallas, no shot Toronto is doing this deal unless they get the best forwards.

Yeah, if I’m Toronto, I want Bey to replace Siakim.

[omahen]

Then don't do it.  Let somebody else get involved.  I could definitely see where Atlanta has a higher asking price straight up than they do when facilitating getting Siakam.

I am not sitting at the negotiating table. I am just trying to gauge the final value. But from my position, Mavs with Capela are far better now than Mavs without Capela. And I do care about now, because Irving is not a long term play and because Luka might be on his way out after another season like last one. I am not willing to give full 2027 FRP for just Capela, but I don't think 2 SRP gets me to the table. I would like to be at the table.

Atlanta doesn't need Dallas if all Toronto demands is 2 SRP to take either Capela or THJ contract - I doubt they put much difference in their value. Similar contract for similar money. Lets be serious about this. Atlanta has plenty of SRP to pay that cost. Toronto demands either serious assets or salary reduction. Mavs can't really help with that, so another asset is the only way to get to the table.

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Yeah, if I’m Toronto, I want Bey to replace Siakim.

Hm. I think Toronto would play PG (Schroeder), GTj at SG, Barnes, OG and Poeltl. I doubt they need a Siakam replacement in the starting lineup. And they are getting Hunter anyway.

[SleepingHero]

Can’t get enamored with the shiny toy, especially since he’s not THAT shiny.

Two years of Capela while you work your lottery pick center up to speed is a nice thing, but not “near unprotected 1st rounder from a future season wherein Kyrie might be retired and Luka might be on another team” nice. I just can’t get there, sorry.

Just bringing this up again, if Luka is on another team come 2027, it's because the Mavs traded him. As Dan's pointed out a bunch, the most likely scenario for Luka (and what has been done countless of times) has been for the star to sign the biggest contract he possibly can, then demand a trade. And in that scenario Luka will extend for his supermax, as it will dwarf any other offer another team can give. 

Should the Mavs trade Luka we'd get the biggest trade return of all time. There will be no shortage of picks for the rebuild. That's why I'm not super torn on trading the 2027 pick.

[Smitty]

Just bringing this up again, if Luka is on another team come 2027, it's because the Mavs traded him. As Dan's pointed out a bunch, the most likely scenario for Luka (and what has been done countless of times) has been for the star to sign the biggest contract he possibly can, then demand a trade. And in that scenario Luka will extend for his supermax, as it will dwarf any other offer another team can give. 

Should the Mavs trade Luka we'd get the biggest trade return of all time. There will be no shortage of picks for the rebuild. That's why I'm not super torn on trading the 2027 pick.

THIS!

[omahen]

Just bringing this up again, if Luka is on another team come 2027, it's because the Mavs traded him. As Dan's pointed out a bunch, the most likely scenario for Luka (and what has been done countless of times) has been for the star to sign the biggest contract he possibly can, then demand a trade. And in that scenario Luka will extend for his supermax, as it will dwarf any other offer another team can give. 

Should the Mavs trade Luka we'd get the biggest trade return of all time. There will be no shortage of picks for the rebuild. That's why I'm not super torn on trading the 2027 pick.

Exactly. The only way Mavs can screw this up is by letting Luka walk for nothing.

Saving picks instead of improving the team is one of the most sure things for the star to actually want out, when he decides he has enough. This of course doesn't mean you are just throwing picks around like candy. But if you believe one player is part of the puzzle, pick shouldn't be an obstacle.

[KillerLeft]

Just bringing this up again, if Luka is on another team come 2027, it's because the Mavs traded him. As Dan's pointed out a bunch, the most likely scenario for Luka (and what has been done countless of times) has been for the star to sign the biggest contract he possibly can, then demand a trade. And in that scenario Luka will extend for his supermax, as it will dwarf any other offer another team can give. 

Should the Mavs trade Luka we'd get the biggest trade return of all time. There will be no shortage of picks for the rebuild. That's why I'm not super torn on trading the 2027 pick.

That doesn’t change the equation for me, because I just saw what the Mavs were able to do with the #10 pick on draft night. You can’t tell me it makes sense to send this one (good chance it’s even better) out for Capela (whom I like). Its worth is either a greater aid to a Luka led team than this deal or a good way to jumpstart the post Luka Mavs world.

Capela doesn’t do quite enough for me in EITHER scenario, especially given the investment in Lively. Now, if they had a couple more picks to pony up and could get Siakim, the only true difference maker involved here, I’d happily pull the trigger, but in order to position yourself to even afford giving consideration to moves like that, you have to avoid spending your few and far between firsts in deals like this.

[KillerLeft]

And, what doesn’t seem to get properly understood is that not all firsts are equal. The firsts you’ll get for Luka in a trade are mostly going to be picks in the late 20’s. This Mavs ‘27 might #1, if things go a certain way.

For Capela.

[omahen]

That doesn’t change the equation for me, because I just saw what the Mavs were able to do with the #10 pick on draft night. You can’t tell me it makes sense to send this one (good chance it’s even better) out for Capela (whom I like). Its worth is either a greater aid to a Luka led team than this deal or a good way to jumpstart the post Luka Mavs world.

Capela doesn’t do quite enough for me in EITHER scenario, especially given the investment in Lively. Now, if they had a couple more picks to pony up and could get Siakim, the only true difference maker involved here, I’d happily pull the trigger, but in order to position yourself to even afford giving consideration to moves like that, you have to avoid spending your few and far between firsts in deals like this.

Player like Siakam certainly fits perfectly on this team and Mavs could decide to wait for next season, as they will have 3 FRP to trade. And I am sure it would take all three picks to get a guy like Siakam, because everyone will know Mavs have zero option but to make that move, since there is only so many "Siakams" available each summer. But Mavs can get Capela and still have 2 picks to trade next season. Perhaps having Capela and likely a better score next season would make Mavs job to convince a "Siakam" easier next season. Convince that Dallas is the place to go and he is that final missing piece.

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And, what doesn’t seem to get properly understood is that not all firsts are equal. The firsts you’ll get for Luka in a trade are mostly going to be picks in the late 20’s. This Mavs ‘27 might #1, if things go a certain way.

For Capela.

You can put top 4 protection and get something more back. I didn't see anyone saying they would trade 2027 for (just) Capela

[KillerLeft]

I will continue to hold onto some hope that Capela can be added here without inclusion of ‘27. That’s the outcome I want to see, so I’ll focus all my vibes on its manifestation.

[SkenfromLMF]

So this would have to wait to see how things play out in Atlanta & about 60 days from the previous OKC deals:

Dallas sends OKC THJ for Dort and Rudy Gay ( & a player into the Bertans TE) and also sends McGee for Oladipo and Ty Ty.

This helps OKC as they lower their roster #; lowers their dead money paid this season; and even their long-term salary regarding Dort.

[Smitty]

I don’t want the Mavs to trade a FRP for Capela but the fascination with not sending it for what can be considered a final piece has to stop. The Mavs are in win-now mode. Just two years ago they went to the WCF with Brunson, Luka, Bullock, DFS, Powell starting with Dinwiddie and Maxi off the bench. This year they have Kyrie, ‘23 Luka, Green, Williams, *Holmes with THJ and Maxi off the bench.

You can say what you want about no team goes from missing the playoffs to contenders but the reality is, this team is not far away.

[SleepingHero]

That doesn’t change the equation for me, because I just saw what the Mavs were able to do with the #10 pick on draft night. You can’t tell me it makes sense to send this one (good chance it’s even better) out for Capela (whom I like). Its worth is either a greater aid to a Luka led team than this deal or a good way to jumpstart the post Luka Mavs world.

Capela doesn’t do quite enough for me in EITHER scenario, especially given the investment in Lively. Now, if they had a couple more picks to pony up and could get Siakim, the only true difference maker involved here, I’d happily pull the trigger, but in order to position yourself to even afford giving consideration to moves like that, you have to avoid spending your few and far between firsts in deals like this.

I mean I can't equivocate what the Mavs can do in 4 years given I have no idea what the roster will look like. Sure we can debate the usefulness on the pick in future deals and what supposed value it could bring, but those deals don't exist yet. 

But I do know that Luka's patience is running thin. The Mavs have been faffing around for the better part of 4 years never been doing enough. They were too liberal with their pick usage that led us to never having enough for a true big fish. Now I don't think they can afford to wait and stockpile assets for the next big guy (nor do I think that's what you're implying). Capela for all his warts does make a lot of sense. He's still really good. His history with a guy like Harden, who's playstyle is similar to Luka only emboldens that to me.

I can't imagine a better deal right now where the Mavs can use the 2027 pick, obtain a starting caliber center, shed off of McGee, and potentially get a young forward like Griffin in 1 swoop. The deals for massive difference maker stars like Siakam are too expensive. The Mavs can only get to that kind of package is if they wait till 2026 where, should they wait, would have 26, 31, 33 to trade with pick swaps in 2027 and 28. But that's 3 years down the line and again, like Nico said when they traded for Kyrie, he was more afraid of what would have happened if they didn't make that deal. 

Time is ticking.

[Chicagojk]

Not sure this matters on but but 3 years ago Atlanta traded Evan Turner and a second round pick for Capella in a 5 team trade.

As far as Capella…for me it would totally depend what was given up.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2020/02/05/c...-team-deal


Oops…looks like they gave up a nets first too

[mvossman]

I don’t want the Mavs to trade a FRP for Capela but the fascination with not sending it for what can be considered a final piece has to stop. The Mavs are in win-now mode. Just two years ago they went to the WCF with Brunson, Luka, Bullock, DFS, Powell starting with Dinwiddie and Maxi off the bench. This year they have Kyrie, ‘23 Luka, Green, Williams, *Holmes with THJ and Maxi off the bench.

You can say what you want about no team goes from missing the playoffs to contenders but the reality is, this team is not far away.

Capela is not the final piece.  He is a better stopgap than Holmes/Powell.  Its not about being afraid to send out that first.  Its about getting good value from that pick.  Capela is not it.

[KillerLeft]

I mean I can't equivocate what the Mavs can do in 4 years given I have no idea what the roster will look like. Sure we can debate the usefulness on the pick in future deals and what supposed value it could bring, but those deals don't exist yet. 

But I do know that Luka's patience is running thin. The Mavs have been faffing around for the better part of 4 years never been doing enough. They were too liberal with their pick usage that led us to never having enough for a true big fish. Now I don't think they can afford to wait and stockpile assets for the next big guy (nor do I think that's what you're implying). Capela for all his warts does make a lot of sense. He's still really good. His history with a guy like Harden, who's playstyle is similar to Luka only emboldens that to me.

I can't imagine a better deal right now where the Mavs can use the 2027 pick, obtain a starting caliber center, shed off of McGee, and potentially get a young forward like Griffin in 1 swoop. The deals for massive difference maker stars like Siakam are too expensive. The Mavs can only get to that kind of package is if they wait till 2026 where, should they wait, would have 26, 31, 33 to trade with pick swaps in 2027 and 28. But that's 3 years down the line and again, like Nico said when they traded for Kyrie, he was more afraid of what would have happened if they didn't make that deal. 

Time is ticking.

This has been a great off season, and for my money, it has been great specifically because the moves made don’t overtly reek of the thinking above. The above mentality has dictated all of the mistakes of the past few years, but this summer feels different to me.

And, I’m not even opposed to that thinking…for a team close enough to make it count. I think the Mavs recognized that they needed to fill the cupboard up again. I don’t think there’s an imminent flight risk from Luka. I think we’re three years from that worry, easily.

After watching this smart string of moves, how good do you think this situation can be for him in three years?! Much, much better than it is now, and probably better than any of the alternatives, if they play this smart enough.

But at the end of the day, I don’t throw that 1st in because I don’t think this deal is worth it, regardless of where you fall on the team’s timeline. Straight up. No, Griffin’s inclusion doesn’t move the needle, either.

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Capela is not the final piece.  He is a better stopgap than Holmes/Powell.  Its not about being afraid to send out that first.  Its about getting good value from that pick.  Capela is not it.

This, said 1,000x more succinctly than I could. Bravo.

[Smitty]

Capela is not the final piece.  He is a better stopgap than Holmes/Powell.  Its not about being afraid to send out that first.  Its about getting good value from that pick.  Capela is not it.

I don’t want to trade a FRP for Capela. I will say that dumping McGee probably cost at least 2 SRP’s. Highlighted by the fact Spurs didn’t want him in a dump but instead gave 2 SRP’s. So getting Capela AND dumping McGee could very well be the cost of a FRP. I don’t know if Capela is the final piece for this team BUT he puts them a lot closer to contention than even the ‘21 starting lineup.

This is what I would do but if we would all do it, it’s probably too good to be true.

Hawks: Siakam , McGee
Mavs: Capela
Raptors: THJ, Hunter, Bey, Hawks ‘24 & ‘29 FRP, Mavs 2 SRP’s.