Team Tank 2022-23

[MAVS-SLO]

Finaly the season is over. Now there is probably the most critical offseason ahead of us, in probably the last decade. And in my opinion situation can go either way. I can see us winning a chip next season and also i can see us as complete distaster next season.

As i said in a lot previous posts, we have some great individual players in roster. Individually that roster is probably the best roster in the Luka's era, but with some massive holes which in my opinion were a reason why we were losing this season. If we can manage to fill that holes with 2-3 good pieces, then in my opinon we have chance that ''machine starts working'' next season.

In NBA situation can change very quickly and very quickly this reports of disaster become ''genius move by a Mavs''.

First thing is to get draft pick. I couldn't imagine what could happen if we succesfully tanked the season to stay without pick. After everthing i think we will end up with 10 pick with some interesting names that can solve a lot of our problems. Taylor Hendricks, Walker and Whitemore are my top 3 picks at the 10.

Next step is resigning Kyrie. As i said i'm not a fan of Kyrie, but he loses aren't his fault. And we aren't in position to lose another player for nothing. I won't like a contract, but we aren't in situation to choose.

I don't know what to think about Kidd. Sadly he will be here next season, so our only hope is that players figure out how to play, because Kidd it won't help them.

So the roster per positions:

CENTERS:

? - McGee - ?

One of 2 biggest holes in our roster. We only have McGee under the contract at the center for the next season, so we will need an big upgrade on this position. We will probably let Wood walk for nothing, which is another wasted 1 round pick.

Powell back on the vet-min (or around 4-5 per season) seems very realistic to me. As a back-up big that in my opinion is not so bad. With that, we can maybe also use McGee as a salary filler in some trades.

As a third option i would bring back Boban. He is one of the Luka's best friends and his presence improves chemistry for 100%.

For a starting center i really don't know who they can target. Turner would be perfect in my opinion i just don't know if they have assets to bring him. Capela may be interesting, maybe Nurkic, for Claxton and others we don't have assets to bring them.

POWER FORWARDS:

? - Kleber - Bertans

Probably the biggest hole after DFS trade. I think the plan is to fill that hole with the upcoming draft (Hendricks, Walker, Whitemore). Maxi will hopefully be more healthier next season, while i hope we can trade Bertans for something.

SMALL FORWARDS:

Green - Bullock - Pinson

Green took massive step forward and i hope he will take another one next season. Bullock have a down year like all the team, but as a back up he still good. Pinson is another cheerleader, but someone very close to Kyrie and that's enough to have him back next season.

SHOOTING GUARDS:

Luka - Hardaway - Hardy

Nothing to change. Hope Hardy will take another step forward, while we can try to trade Hardaway for a starting caliber center (Turner).

POINT GUARDS:

Kyrie - ? - ? 

Resigning Kyrie is priority. Next thing is to try to get another back up pg. Maybe there is again time to talk about Dragic. As a 3 option Wright on 2 way can also be enough.

In my opinion with some minor moves like bringing back Boban and maybe Dragic can be achieved a lot. With luck on a draft we can be very close and maybe 1 trade away to becoming one of the biggest contenders.

[Chicagojk]

Finaly the season is over. Now there is probably the most critical offseason ahead of us, in probably the last decade. And in my opinion situation can go either way. I can see us winning a chip next season and also i can see us as complete distaster next season.

As i said in a lot previous posts, we have some great individual players in roster. Individually that roster is probably the best roster in the Luka's era, but with some massive holes which in my opinion were a reason why we were losing this season. If we can manage to fill that holes with 2-3 good pieces, then in my opinon we have chance that ''machine starts working'' next season.

In NBA situation can change very quickly and very quickly this reports of disaster become ''genius move by a Mavs''.

First thing is to get draft pick. I couldn't imagine what could happen if we succesfully tanked the season to stay without pick. After everthing i think we will end up with 10 pick with some interesting names that can solve a lot of our problems. Taylor Hendricks, Walker and Whitemore are my top 3 picks at the 10.

Next step is resigning Kyrie. As i said i'm not a fan of Kyrie, but he loses aren't his fault. And we aren't in position to lose another player for nothing. I won't like a contract, but we aren't in situation to choose.

I don't know what to think about Kidd. Sadly he will be here next season, so our only hope is that players figure out how to play, because Kidd it won't help them.

So the roster per positions:

CENTERS:

? - McGee - ?

One of 2 biggest holes in our roster. We only have McGee under the contract at the center for the next season, so we will need an big upgrade on this position. We will probably let Wood walk for nothing, which is another wasted 1 round pick.

Powell back on the vet-min (or around 4-5 per season) seems very realistic to me. As a back-up big that in my opinion is not so bad. With that, we can maybe also use McGee as a salary filler in some trades.

As a third option i would bring back Boban. He is one of the Luka's best friends and his presence improves chemistry for 100%.

For a starting center i really don't know who they can target. Turner would be perfect in my opinion i just don't know if they have assets to bring him. Capela may be interesting, maybe Nurkic, for Claxton and others we don't have assets to bring them.

POWER FORWARDS:

? - Kleber - Bertans

Probably the biggest hole after DFS trade. I think the plan is to fill that hole with the upcoming draft (Hendricks, Walker, Whitemore). Maxi will hopefully be more healthier next season, while i hope we can trade Bertans for something.

SMALL FORWARDS:

Green - Bullock - Pinson

Green took massive step forward and i hope he will take another one next season. Bullock have a down year like all the team, but as a back up he still good. Pinson is another cheerleader, but someone very close to Kyrie and that's enough to have him back next season.

SHOOTING GUARDS:

Luka - Hardaway - Hardy

Nothing to change. Hope Hardy will take another step forward, while we can try to trade Hardaway for a starting caliber center (Turner).

POINT GUARDS:

Kyrie - ? - ? 

Resigning Kyrie is priority. Next thing is to try to get another back up pg. Maybe there is again time to talk about Dragic. As a 3 option Wright on 2 way can also be enough.

In my opinion with some minor moves like bringing back Boban and maybe Dragic can be achieved a lot. With luck on a draft we can be very close and maybe 1 trade away to becoming one of the biggest contenders.

Finding a starting caliber Center and a big wing is a must.   If this team just improves their defense and rebound better, a lot of their issues will fix themselves imo.   With our resources, it will be tough to fill both.   So maybe one is a bandaid approach.  This will take smart player evaluation.    In a perfect world, they fill one hole with a trade plus future draft pick.   And the other hole is filled by a smart evaluation move.   Maybe this is the band aid move that stops the bleeding for the short term.   If they could do this while keeping their pick (if they don't get unlucky), this would be a really nice offseason.

The west is wide open.  There are some younger teams that may make things even more crowded next year, but if Dallas can make smart moves and improve around the edges (better rebounding, better rim defense, maybe faster pace) there is no reason why a Luka led team cannot be really competitive.    They just need to build a squad that allows Luka to be Luka.

[Hogmelon]

NOTE:  This article is almost four years old.

https://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2019/0...e-tanking/

[F Gump]

That was a stupid article. It doesn't even address its title thesis of evaluating whether the new lottery has "discouraged" tanking - ie resulted in more teams tanking, or less.

It was just trying to determine "is tanking worth it" with a conclusion from the files of Captain Obvious, which is that the flattening of lottery odds have lessened the value of the very lowest picks, and heightened the value of ones that begin lower in the draft. Well duh.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Kevin O'Connor reporting that Luka and Kyrie were both agitated when being asked to tank after the Hornets losses and played anyway.  Could honestly see that lead to Kyrie looking for the door right after he got here and Luka asking for a trade after this season because it will be hard to build a roster if Kyrie walks for nothing.

I hope I am wrong and that we can move into more of a "winning cures all" sort of season next year but I kept pointing out in this thread that everyone here seems to ignore the human element when it comes to tanking and there can be very severe repercussions from that.  These guys are all athletes and competitors, not pawns, and in the NBA, the talent has all the leverage all the time.  

I agree with the decision to tank once we lost those awful awful Hornets games and I do wish that the message was better received by the players than it is being reported, but it's very fair to point out that the decision has pros and cons from an asset management standpoint.

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

Kevin O'Connor reporting that Luka and Kyrie were both agitated when being asked to tank after the Hornets losses and played anyway.  Could honestly see that lead to Kyrie looking for the door right after he got here and Luka asking for a trade after this season because it will be hard to build a roster if Kyrie walks for nothing.

I hope I am wrong and that we can move into more of a "winning cures all" sort of season next year but I kept pointing out in this thread that everyone here seems to ignore the human element when it comes to tanking and there can be very severe repercussions from that.  These guys are all athletes and competitors, not pawns, and in the NBA, the talent has all the leverage all the time.  

I agree with the decision to tank once we lost those awful awful Hornets games and I do wish that the message was better received by the players than it is being reported, but it's very fair to point out that the decision has pros and cons from an asset management standpoint.

Sorry, but the players lost the right to bitch after playing uninspired ball in must-win games against absolute trash like Charlotte.  Kyrie is a guy who looks for ANY REASON to be disgruntled.  If it wasn't this it will eventually be something else.  As I watched the clock tick down on OKC last night after getting dominated inside by Minny I was so thankful the Mavs didn't keep pushing for Pyrrhic Victories.  The Mavs would've been destroyed by Gobert and KAT.  If Kyrie and Luka are that short-sighted to see they need help then good riddance.

[Mavs2021]

Kevin O'Connor reporting that Luka and Kyrie were both agitated when being asked to tank after the Hornets losses and played anyway.  Could honestly see that lead to Kyrie looking for the door right after he got here and Luka asking for a trade after this season because it will be hard to build a roster if Kyrie walks for nothing.

I hope I am wrong and that we can move into more of a "winning cures all" sort of season next year but I kept pointing out in this thread that everyone here seems to ignore the human element when it comes to tanking and there can be very severe repercussions from that.  These guys are all athletes and competitors, not pawns, and in the NBA, the talent has all the leverage all the time.  

I agree with the decision to tank once we lost those awful awful Hornets games and I do wish that the message was better received by the players than it is being reported, but it's very fair to point out that the decision has pros and cons from an asset management standpoint.

If that report is accurate, then the reason we do not have a 96% chance to retain our pick right is that we allowed a person, who is here for two months, to make strategic franchise decisions. LOL. These are the moments you wish we had Pat Riley and fantasize whether he´d stone Kyrie with his 11 rings or simply treats him like he does not exist, while he gives Luka a dressing down.

This would already be enough for me to S&T Kyrie in the summer and if we walks to Houston for free....good riddance.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

If that report is accurate, then the reason we do not have a 96% chance to retain our pick right is that we allowed a person, who is here for two months, to make strategic franchise decisions. LOL. These are the moments you wish we had Pat Riley and fantasize whether he´d stone Kyrie with his 11 rings or simply treats him like he does not exist, while he gives Luka a dressing down.

This would already be enough for me to S&T Kyrie in the summer and if we walks to Houston for free....good riddance.

You totally missed the point of what I’m saying. You constantly deflect and say that players won’t care about tanking and I’m just pointing out that that doesn’t seem to be the case.  I agree that tanking after those Hornets games would have been the right decision, I also understood that there could be pretty negative consequences that have nothing to do with play in or draft position. You just absolutely refuse to acknowledge that.

[Mavs2021]

You totally missed the point of what I’m saying. You constantly deflect and say that players won’t care about tanking and I’m just pointing out that that doesn’t seem to be the case.  I agree that tanking after those Hornets games would have been the right decision, I also understood that there could be pretty negative consequences that have nothing to do with play in or draft position. You just absolutely refuse to acknowledge that.

No I don´t refuse to acknowledge that. I refuse to accept that a professional sports organization should care.

Plenty of teams have tanked. No superstar has ever demanded to be traded, because a team lost INTENTIONALLY. They demand to be traded, cause their team loses UNINTENTIONALLY foir sustained periods of time. They demand to be traded, cause the teams can´t win, when they want to win.

Never in the history of this league have teams with weak front offices won championship(s). If you allow the players to dictate your franchise direction, you have already lost.

Cuban just has no backbone or brains. He calls his own lack of balls, business sense and swallowing your pride.

Only a loser would chase DeAndre Jordan after what he did the first time around. That´s before we even get into the evaluation part that Jordan was washed-up.

Luka has earned the right to have an honest conversation about the strategical decision to tank. Kyrie can just f*** off.

EDIT: Also let me add that Kyrie cares so much about WINNING that he sabotaged a reigning NBA championship team, a team with two young superstars in Tatum/Brown and a Nets team with two veteran superstars in Harden/Durant. And you THINK that the Mavs should listen to what this moron has to say about playing to WIN. He was in three of the five best situations over the last decade and HE BURNT them down. HE gets to tell the team TO PLAY TO WIN, when it´s about three games and a < 1% to make it past the 1st round of the play-offs.

Oh and to top it all off, IF the Mavs decided to call his bluff this summer, Kyrie will happily sign a max contract with HOUSTON, cause he cares so much about winning. LOL.

[hakeemfaan]

If true, it does explain why Kidd the snake was trying to distance from the front office. He was showing his boys Kyrie and Luka that he was with them and not with big bad evil management. If 2 of those 3 leave tomorrow and we get nothing back, I don’t care. Good riddance If Luka also wants to join them, that’s fine.  I supported this team when folks like Muursepp and Loren Meyer played here. I got my wish of a lifetime with Dirk winning that title. Everything else is a bonus.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

I liked your post for remembering Loren Meyer.

[LukaMVP]

it ain't players fault not to want to tank tbh. although tanking might be the best option for this franchise, it was miserable to watch the team losing games, intentionally or not. even the fans didn't want the team to tank until the last few games. if we had begun tanking at the ASB, as I advocated back then, we would've been talking about our odds of getting a top 4 pick now. however, im not sure if getting a top 4 pick is big enough to compensate for the growth of a losing culture. a #1 pick (wemby) should be worth everything though, but only one team will end up getting it and the other teams that have also been tanking the whole season for it can suck dicks.

[ItsGoTime]

it ain't players fault not to want to tank tbh. although tanking might be the best option for this franchise, it was miserable to watch the team losing games, intentionally or not. even the fans didn't want the team to tank until the last few games. if we had begun tanking at the ASB, as I advocated back then, we would've been talking about our odds of getting a top 4 pick now. however, im not sure if getting a top 4 pick is big enough to compensate for the growth of a losing culture. a #1 pick (wemby) should be worth everything though, but only one team will end up getting it and the other teams that have also been tanking the whole season for it can suck dicks.

Worse than the trying to win and losing anyway culture? Tanking was proven to be the right decision for this team. Drain the swamp!

[Dundalis]

The conversation around having to resign Kyrie for whatever he wants (max money, max length), to me is kinda not the case. We did NOT give up a Kings ransom for him, even though it was definitely enough capital for an asset sparse team to be very unhappy about losing for nothing.

But the bottom line is, Kyrie isn't exactly blessed with choice, and IMO, there are a lot more teams that are likely starting to put him in a similar basket to what CWood is in. He's the superior talent, so that will be there, but for max money, with his issues having rightly or wrongly, now affected 3 consecutive teams? That he wasn't directly responsible for what happened after coming to Dallas, will still be looked at by teams as too much of a coincidence that he's directly been involved in 3 teams going downhill after his arrival.

I don't think any teams with actual cap space that are rebuilding with young teams will particularly want Kyrie. And obviously the teams that are contending that you expect Kyrie to want to go to, will not likely have the cap space to get him. I think the Mavs will have a lot more bargaining power than some people think, and we should think twice about offering him whatever he wants.

If we do some trades around draft, that might heavily affect what we do with Kyrie. What if we can pull off a trade for someone like Siakam? We'd be in an even better position to hard ball Kyrie. I think worst case scenario, he gets offended, and goes in a S&T to a team he wants and we recoup some assets in return. I'd be perfectly fine with that.

[ItsGoTime]

I can be talked into a world where we don’t keep Kyrie. Even if we lose him for nothing, I think there is a path forward. If I heard correctly, there is a path to some significant money. I wouldn’t want them to use that money on FAs. Instead use it in trades to lower teams payroll immediately, like Det did for NYK last season. Gafford for McGee and a SRP or 2 is the type of deal I’m thinking about. Saves Wash money to be able to feel comfortable with resigning Kuz and extending KP maybe?

If we do stuff like that and only chip away at the money as opposed to using it for 1 player, that is a path to utilizing the cap space to getting multiple players.

[Jym]

I can be talked into a world where we don’t keep Kyrie. Even if we lose him for nothing, I think there is a path forward. If I heard correctly, there is a path to some significant money. I wouldn’t want them to use that money on FAs. Instead use it in trades to lower teams payroll immediately, like Det did for NYK last season. Gafford for McGee and a SRP or 2 is the type of deal I’m thinking about. Saves Wash money to be able to feel comfortable with resigning Kuz and extending KP maybe?

If we do stuff like that and only chip away at the money as opposed to using it for 1 player, that is a path to utilizing the cap space to getting multiple players.

Ehh maybe a trade for someone like Siakam could change some things but otherwise I don't know if Luka would last another full season here if Kyrie walks. And I would not blame him

[ItsGoTime]

Ehh maybe a trade for someone like Siakam could change some things but otherwise I don't know if Luka would last another full season here if Kyrie walks. And I would not blame him

In all honesty, only real reason I’ve wanted to resign Kyrie is so we don’t lose him for nothing when he decides it’s his time to go. Also, I’m not sold on the long term fit with him anyway (both fit and decline with age reasons). That’s why I can comfortably say what I said. 

What we got him for might be his max value too. Because of the KP resigning, I would be very gun shy to give him what he wants. Less years, less money and 65 games played incentives to align with the new NBA awards rule would be the contract that makes him tradable, and there’s no way I believe he takes that. Maybe add an every playoff games played incentive too.

[LukaMVP]

s&t kyrie for a package of assets seems the best scenario to me, it would give us good flexibility for future operations, rather than lock up our cap space with some timing bomb.

[DanSchwartzgan]

s&t kyrie for a package of assets seems the best scenario to me, it would give us good flexibility for future operations, rather than lock up our cap space with some timing bomb.

The obvious destinations (Phoenix and LAL) are difficult for S&T's because of the salaries those teams already have.  

People tend to think of Houston as an outright signing, but if Kyrie is going there, it won't just be him and the kids.  He'll want a buddy (like Green, Grant or Harden).  Houston has about $64mm in space when you account for their picks.  That's only $32mm each for Kyrie and his friend.  But, if they send out some salary, it isn't hard to get that number up to the low $40's for each player.  It makes sense for Houston to 'go for it' this summer.  They don't have their own pick in 2024, so the tanking is over.  Their newish ownership gave management a 3 year window to rebuild, and that time is up.  Also, there are some good veteran coaches on the market who are more experienced for the next phase of Houston's ascension back to relevance.  

I'm thinking something like Porter Jr. (younger Dinwiddie) plus Garuba or Eason (younger and bigger DFS) and a future first to kind of replicate what we gave up.  Unfortunately, Houston would be in a strong bargaining position as they could S&T with one team and do an outright signing with the other.  Given our history of emotional intelligence when FA's want to leave, nothing says we'd be the team to get the package.  Something like that would also create a TPE in the mid $20's.  If the alternatives for Kyrie going to Houston are $30mm in cap room (he left for nothing), $42mm TPE (S&T for a future second) and the package above, I take that package.

KPJ is Houston's highest paid player and has a super flexible extension after this first season.  He'd most certainly be in the deal.  People can argue about what else, but it really depends on what happens in the lottery.  I really like Garuba and Eason as future PF's.  I'm envisioning the future first being packaged with 2027 for a starting center.  In such a scenario, I think the draft shifts to defensive PG Wallace with #10 to be the third ball handler with Luka and Porter Jr.  We still need a starting center like we were already planning (hopefully).  Hopefully that can come from among Turner, Siakam and Claxton.  Wallace, Hardy, Green and Garuba make you much younger and KPJ isn't exactly old.   You'd still have Luka, hopefully a strong center, THJ, Maxi and Reggie to mix and match with the youngsters.  I like Kyrie and my base case is he's coming back.  But if he doesn't, I'd prefer we go younger than try to stop-gap our way to something in the name of keeping Luka happy.  Winning makes Luka happy and the timing isn't just 2024.  He'll stay long enough to get his $300mm Super Max.  That's the point at which you need to be winning by.

[Chicagojk]

Kyrie for Paul George?   Wouldn't that be a banger.   

It is all fun, but I think bringing back Kyrie is plan A, B & C for the Mavs.