TDL Archived: The 2nd Rnd Pick Yankee Swap

[SleepingHero]

I think we have just as competitive an offer as LA can make using pieces from Utah.  I think we have a core of a deal.  I certainly wouldn’t add Green or a pick if I’m giving up DFS and Dinwiddie.  In fact, I think I’ve improved your chances by converting Irving into two very useful players.  I’m with Kamm, I want something back in such a deal.  Their 2023 pick is probably their best asset.  I don’t believe that line of thinking is that far off.

You're actually converting me into a scenario where the Mavs act as a 3rd team and ship off their bad contracts for taking on Westbrook and picks, and Lakers get Kyrie.

But they're too dumb for that. I truly think that.

You seem to think they won’t be able to help themselves and are destined to make a bad deal.

Given the last 10 years of deals made by Cuban, this being true seems FAR more likely than I care to admit.

[SleepingHero]

I mean, all you have to do is read the rumors and see the offers to know Dallas is the best chance at get the them what they want. That also doesn’t mean DFS or Green. If LAL aren’t offering Reaves, why would we have to offer more than that when we have the better PG replacement option?

I'm in panic mode at the mere idea that the Mavs are getting involved with the worst team cancer of all time. 

Not only that, the first idea floated out in rumors was that DFS was the centerpiece of the deal. Does that not ruffle your feathers a bit? Further, should the Mavs make such a trade, they'd want to extend on the nutcase that is Kyrie. It's ludicrous. 

I am running out of words to describe how bad of a deal this would be.

If Kyrie Irving didn't dribble a basketball so damn well no team would put up with even a tenth of the vitriol he's spewed the last 5 years.

[KillerLeft]

I'm in panic mode at the mere idea that the Mavs are getting involved with the worst team cancer of all time. 

Not only that, the first idea floated out in rumors was that DFS was the centerpiece of the deal. Does that not ruffle your feathers a bit? Further, should the Mavs make such a trade, they'd want to extend on the nutcase that is Kyrie. It's ludicrous. 

I am running out of words to describe how bad of a deal this would be.

If Kyrie Irving didn't dribble a basketball so damn well no team would put up with even a tenth of the vitriol he's spewed the last 5 years.

I love you.

[Jmaciscool]

Do not underestimate how hard and creatively Cuban is willing to work in order to sabotage his team.

Dinwiddie, DFS and Green, along with even one first, is a way better offer than that Westbrook/2 1sts offer from Brooklyn's POV, imho.

Ugh, I hope you're wrong but scared you're right

[ItsGoTime]

I think it’s weird that some are hanging on to McMahon’s report when Windhorst said immediately after it that he wouldn’t trade those assets for him. Also, reading about LAL trade options and leveraging those against what is slightly more, but on par with the on court offers (which is what keeps KD more happy which seems to be the goal), we’re looking at SD and THJ for Kyrie that beats all LAL offers, and quite possibly all other team offers too. The lynch pin is SD who is the best replacement out of all team’s offered replacements.

[KillerLeft]

I think it’s weird that some are hanging on to McMahon’s report when Windhorst said immediately after it that he wouldn’t trade those assets for him.

Nobody believes McMahon is reporting anything about a Mavs offer, they're all speculating. 

And sure, it would be great to believe the Mavs are smarter than to make an offer than that. How could they not be, right?

But, we live in a world where the local guys, the ones closest to the Mavs inner circle, orbitally, have been floating trades that include Green for like two months, and now we've got rumors of them shopping DFS for a "star." 

Between Windhorst and McMahon, who do you feel has a better handle on Cuban and how the Mavs' front office operates? 

I would not be shocked to learn that Skiin Wade is already making a list of why giving up DFS and Green for Kyrie Irving is a smart move...maybe he's practicing it in the mirror right now, as I type this.

[Tyler]

While everyone is latching on to the idea that Dinwiddie would be one of the guys going out in the deal, I found this interesting article from a few years back about how Dinwiddie is tight with Kyrie and helped recruit him to Brooklyn:

https://www.netsdaily.com/2019/7/17/2069...-next-year

It also features a Kidd reference: "Asked when things changed from Knicks to Nets for the six-time All-Star, Irving seemed to say that the Nets, because of his childhood as a Jason Kidd fan, held much more sway than believed."

So if Dallas is worried about Irving fitting in, not only could Kidd be an important factor but Dinwiddie could be part of the solution as well. Maybe we're thinking about it all wrong by assuming Dinwiddie is the guy going out. He could be part of the glue that makes it work.

[ItsGoTime]

I'm in panic mode at the mere idea that the Mavs are getting involved with the worst team cancer of all time. 

Not only that, the first idea floated out in rumors was that DFS was the centerpiece of the deal. Does that not ruffle your feathers a bit? Further, should the Mavs make such a trade, they'd want to extend on the nutcase that is Kyrie. It's ludicrous. 

I am running out of words to describe how bad of a deal this would be.

If Kyrie Irving didn't dribble a basketball so damn well no team would put up with even a tenth of the vitriol he's spewed the last 5 years.

To me, he wants LAL and LAL wants him. If I can extract something out of that, I’m in. Whether I have to have him for 2 months then SnT him or I get assets to facilitate the deal taking on RW (who I think is also a cancer), I want to get off horrible untradeable contracts and get assets in the process. 


I believe the LAL offer is RW and 2 firsts as I read recently. Well, first, it’s already been said that is not a salary match so BKN would have to add someone to make that work, so that is not the full deal. I would be fine with Dan’s idea, only we get RW and 2 firsts, not one. Either that or I make the trade and get 2 firsts for a SnT of Kyrie to LAL.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Between Windhorst and McMahon, who do you feel has a better handle on Cuban and how the Mavs' front office operates? 

I pick Stein (see quote below).  BTW, Stein doesn't believe Dallas would extend Irving.


"It's believed that Brooklyn would covet former Net Spencer Dinwiddie and in-demand swingman Dorian Finney-Smith in a prospective trade with the Mavericks, while Dallas would surely insist on moving off at least one of its longer contracts (Tim Hardaway Jr. or Dāvis Bertāns) in a theoretical Irving deal."

[SleepingHero]

I pick Stein (see quote below).  BTW, Stein doesn't believe Dallas would extend Irving.


"It's believed that Brooklyn would covet former Net Spencer Dinwiddie and in-demand swingman Dorian Finney-Smith in a prospective trade with the Mavericks, while Dallas would surely insist on moving off at least one of its longer contracts (Tim Hardaway Jr. or Dāvis Bertāns) in a theoretical Irving deal."

So Nets want Dinwiddie+DFS.

Mavs want DFS+THJ. Both of those deals are better than the proposed Westbrook+2 firsts for a team trying to win it all this year with Durant. 

I just can't see the Nets saying yes to the latter though.

[Tyler]

"It's believed that Brooklyn would covet former Net Spencer Dinwiddie and in-demand swingman Dorian Finney-Smith in a prospective trade with the Mavericks, while Dallas would surely insist on moving off at least one of its longer contracts (Tim Hardaway Jr. or Dāvis Bertāns) in a theoretical Irving deal."

I can see them splitting the difference with THJ/DFS. KD likes Dorian. Dinwiddie is tight with Kyrie. THJ is a good dude anywhere and can pick up some scoring slack. So both teams get guys that fit open needs and seem to get along.

[ItsGoTime]

Nobody believes McMahon is reporting anything about a Mavs offer, they're all speculating. 

And sure, it would be great to believe the Mavs are smarter than to make an offer than that. How could they not be, right?

But, we live in a world where the local guys, the ones closest to the Mavs inner circle, orbitally, have been floating trades that include Green for like two months, and now we've got rumors of them shopping DFS for a "star." 

Between Windhorst and McMahon, who do you feel has a better handle on Cuban and how the Mavs' front office operates? 

I would not be shocked to learn that Skiin Wade is already making a list of why giving up DFS and Green for Kyrie Irving is a smart move...maybe he's practicing it in the mirror right now, as I type this.

He’s practicing in the mirror that it’s because we got Russell Westbrook, Nic Claxton, Lonny Walker and Rui Hachimura out of it in a strangely worded, looks like a written in rule (in Lebron’s handwriting it is later discovered) rule that allows the trade!

[DanSchwartzgan]

I can see them splitting the difference with THJ/DFS. KD likes Dorian. Dinwiddie is tight with Kyrie. THJ is a good dude anywhere and can pick up some scoring slack. So both teams get guys that fit open needs and seem to get along.

I read the article you posted about the relationship between Dinwiddie and Irving (you should post that here).  I can see you being right about this.  Leaves us with a hole at PF...

Wood/Powell
        /Maxi
Green/Bullock
Irving/Dinwiddie
Luka/Dinwiddie

[ItsGoTime]

I really don’t understand the reasoning for wanting DFS so badly. They have Simmons, KD, TJ Warren and ONeale that can all cover the positions DFS would. Also, with the loss of Irving, isn’t scoring more in need?

[donzingis38]

One thing I know for sure is we can't afford to lose Josh Green. Every team still needs some young blood. Watching this team sometimes I feel like we just need to find slightly better players than Powell, Bullock and THJ. These aren't the type of players you want to go to war with.

[ItsGoTime]

I read the article you posted about the relationship between Dinwiddie and Irving (you should post that here).  I can see you being right about this.  Leaves us with a hole at PF...

Wood/Powell
        /Maxi
Green/Bullock
Irving/Dinwiddie
Luka/Dinwiddie

It could easily be:


Wood/Maxi/Powell
Luka/Maxi
Bullock/Luka/Green
Green/Dinwiddie
Irving/Dinwiddie

Or

Wood/Maxi/Powell
Luka/Maxi
Green/Bullock
Dinwiddie/Green
Irving/Luka

[SleepingHero]

I really don’t understand the reasoning for wanting DFS so badly. They have Simmons, KD, TJ Warren and ONeale that can all cover the positions DFS would. Also, with the loss of Irving, isn’t scoring more in need?

Simmons literally doesn't want to play basketball. He's sitting out yet again because of his back. TJ Warren isn't the same guy.

ONeale is the only one that can score a 3 between the aforementioned 2. DFS is by far the best defender of the bunch today.

[HAguiar95]

BKN interest in our core players (I won't include Green here, I'd be hesitant to involve him):

- Dinwiddie: They'd lose a good ball-handler in Kyrie and would need at least someone capable at the position, htey have Curry/Mills/Simmons here, could use Dinwiddie. 

- Hardaway: They already have Curry, Thomas and Harris. All better players and shooters than Hardaway, no 0 interest in Hardaway.

- Finney-Smith: Even though they have Durant/O'Neale/Simmons, DFS would add another good defender for their defense. It'd indicate that they're not confident in Simmons at all. 

- Wood: Here is where I think they need most. Their frontcourt depth have already been mentioned as of what they'd search in TDL (i.e. Collins). I'd guess they could very well use Wood as a 6th man.

I'm not worried at all about his fit/bad attitude. Obviously I only trade if we could extend him. It'd be a great 2nd star (and we don't have to trade, which means we have ammo for a big trade down the road). If DFS is involved, we'd have to trade for a defensive stopper. Preferably at PF since we'd be using Bullock/Green as our wing defenders. Thybulle, Vanderbilt, Hart, Williams (OKC), Green (CHI) should all be available.

[Mavs2021]

Lowe on where Irving ends up: I take Lakers/Mavs over the whole NBA. Nobody else is desperate enough to want this mess.

I´m with him, but I`d rather be the 3rd party in this deal and get Westbrook with all the assets.

Marks proposed:

Irving + Harris to the Lakers
Westbrook + Walker + 1st to the Nets

We can EASILY beat that offer from a Nets POV.


Can you imagine if we walked away from this with a clean cap this summer AND a 1st round pick. Ludicrous, but within the realm of possibility. It solves ALL our long-term problems.

It´s a win for Nico to say we turned Porzingis into an unprotected 1st round pick. I think it´s there. I just don´t think the moron at the top will allow it.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

LAL and DAL are both desperate and potentially stupid front offices. BKN is desperate to try and prey on the dumbest front offices. 

Is it possible BKN succeeds? Sure, but I HIGHLY doubt it.


BKN might hang on to him and risk letting him walk this summer. They might. But I bet they DESPERATELY want to be done with Kyrie and show KD they can build a winner. I think BKN is in a MORE desperate situation than DAL (as long as we assume a stable person is running the Mavs). If I was a GM I would play on that desperation and offer BKN a "win-now" package and get assets back from them in return. If they don't bite, so be it, walk away and let them sleep in the Kyrie bed they made for themselves.

That's what I'm thinking as well.  BKN doesn't have to trade him at the TDL. They could wait,  keep him in his perceived purgatory until the end of the season. They could make trades around the fringes, like adding another big for depth.   He still has to play, and what if when KD returns they get on another roll and make the playoffs?  As fickle as Kyrie is, he could easily change course and tell them he wants to stay as KD did.  Anything is possible with this talented loony tune.