TDL Archived: The 2nd Rnd Pick Yankee Swap

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...6719424512

[KillerLeft]

I bet BKN gets nothing even close to this. Kyrie is damaged goods. Your opinion of him is not an outlier. BKN has no negotiating ground to stand on or leverage to pull on.

That's possible. Very possible. I'm sure they won't get a good offer from a smart team, to your point. As they said in the video I posted, the reason we're talking LAL and Dallas is that they're the two most desperate teams, short on assets, with stars who want to win now. 

I don't think this will be a "take the best offer by the deadline" situation. I think it's a deal like a I described or he doesn't get traded. Again.

[Mavs2021]

If it was up to me, I´d be sellers now. 

Get Westbrook + Bryant + Lakers unprotected 1st 2027 for Dinwiddie + THJ (Nets) + Bertans (Lakers). Maybe the Nets even take McGee for depth.

Get Saric + Suns unprotected 1st 2023 for Wood.

Tank.

Now you got

Mavs 2023 1st (top 10)
Suns 2023 1st
Lakers 2027 1st

and a max salary slot THIS SUMMER.

[Kammrath]

That's possible. Very possible. I'm sure they won't get a good offer from a smart team, to your point. As they said in the video I posted, the reason we're talking LAL and Dallas is that they're the two most desperate teams, short on assets, with stars who want to win now. 

I don't think this will be a "take the best offer by the deadline" situation. I think it's a deal like a I described or he doesn't get traded. Again.

LAL and DAL are both desperate and potentially stupid front offices. BKN is desperate to try and prey on the dumbest front offices. 

Is it possible BKN succeeds? Sure, but I HIGHLY doubt it.


BKN might hang on to him and risk letting him walk this summer. They might. But I bet they DESPERATELY want to be done with Kyrie and show KD they can build a winner. I think BKN is in a MORE desperate situation than DAL (as long as we assume a stable person is running the Mavs). If I was a GM I would play on that desperation and offer BKN a "win-now" package and get assets back from them in return. If they don't bite, so be it, walk away and let them sleep in the Kyrie bed they made for themselves.

[Kammrath]

If it was up to me, I´d be sellers now

100% where I am at. 100%. Sell for THIS season and then use those assets to regroup this summer.

[BigDirk41]

I'm all for selling, but everyone needs to be ready for Cuban to do this trade and most likely pay more than everyone wants.

[sterlingmallory]

That's possible. Very possible. I'm sure they won't get a good offer from a smart team, to your point. As they said in the video I posted, the reason we're talking LAL and Dallas is that they're the two most desperate teams, short on assets, with stars who want to win now. 

I don't think this will be a "take the best offer by the deadline" situation. I think it's a deal like a I described or he doesn't get traded. Again.

Does Brooklyn want to risk losing him for nothing in the summer in that case? Because that's what will happen if they call his bluff. There is zero chance he is re-signing with them. Kyrie will leave for nothing and then you face the prospect of KD asking out as well. They'd be looking at a total rebuild at that point. Seems to me that the Nets are at a crossroads, either trade Kyrie for a couple players that might be able to help (like Dinwiddie, Wood, or THJ), or just let him walk and tear it all down.

[KillerLeft]

I think BKN is in a MORE desperate situation than DAL (as long as we assume a stable person is running the Mavs). If I was a GM I would play on that desperation and offer BKN a "win-now" package and get assets back from them in return. If they don't bite, so be it, walk away and let them sleep in the Kyrie bed they made for themselves.

Absolutely, they're desperate, and absolutely, they'll want a "win-now" package. But that package will consist of the Mavs' GOOD players (hence "win" now), not their flotsam. 

I'll say again: Dinwiddie, DFS, Green. MAYBE you get out of it without giving a pick. 

They need to be able to sell Durant on what they do, because they can't lose him next year. Houston has their draft capital for the foreseeable future.

[loki]

Porzingis was 23 years old and seen as a potential franchise cornerstone. I remember Cuban saying at the introductory press conference that he wanted to keep KP and Luka together for the next 20 years. There's no way he has even remotely the same view on Kyrie. I just can't imagine him offering a 4 year max. 2 years? Tempting.

[Kammrath]

I'll say again: Dinwiddie, DFS, Green. MAYBE you get out of it without giving a pick.

And I'll say again, the only way I take that package is if I get TWO 1sts in return from BKN. I am happy to help them win now, but they better pay up.

[KillerLeft]

Does Brooklyn want to risk losing him for nothing in the summer in that case? Because that's what will happen if they call his bluff. There is zero chance he is re-signing with them.

You sure? This is 100% about money, and they'd still have his bird rights in a market where not many teams will want to pay him what he wants. My guess is that he "gets over it" and negotiates this summer.

[Mavs2021]

That's possible. Very possible. I'm sure they won't get a good offer from a smart team, to your point. As they said in the video I posted, the reason we're talking LAL and Dallas is that they're the two most desperate teams, short on assets, with stars who want to win now. 

I don't think this will be a "take the best offer by the deadline" situation. I think it's a deal like a I described or he doesn't get traded. Again.

....and that´s why we should be sellers. Cuban can´t think three months ahead. If he cleans out Bertans, Dinwiddie and THJ by taking on Westbrook for a 1st, instead of getting Kyrie Irving, he can trade for any star player on draft night.

The Bulls don´t say no to a core trade of 2023 lottery pick (Mavs), Lakers unprotected 1st for Lavine.

Then you basically turned Bertans/Dinwiddie/THJ into Lavine at the cost of ONE first round pick. But that would require a three months tank and thinking ahead, so no chance of that happening.

[KillerLeft]

And I'll say again, the only way I take that package is if I get TWO 1sts in return from BKN. I am happy to help them win now, but they better pay up.

Well, I hope the Mavs stick to your playbook, because I don't want him here under ANY circumstances and your bottom line would mean nothing happens, I think.

---

Hell, the Nets can probably get a better deal than what some of you are suggesting by simply agreeing to sign and trade him to whichever stupid team wants him this summer. 

This bargain basement "fleecing" of the Nets at the deadline is not going to happen. You're all setting yourselves up for disappointment.

[F Gump]

I think Kyrie wants a 4 year max, and Brooklyn won't give it to him. I doubt many teams would be eager to do so. 

I think Brooklyn will set a price for trade that improves their team this season and makes it worth their while to move him, OR they'll call his bluff.

Kyrie wants out. He wants a 4-year deal (that only BKN can give him right now). I get that.

My point is that I would NOT trade for him and take BKN's place, to be held hostage. I have no interest in that.

I also recognize that while BKN might want a lot of value for him, they are only trading 2 months of his services. That's all they have to offer right now, even though they want more than that.

That's why my offer would be conditioned on an extend-and-trade being part of the deal. Otherwise, I can't afford to give BKN what they might want -- I can't afford to strip any assets from this team for a player who is going to make financial demands I might not want to meet, to layer on top of a payroll my owner can't stomach. And frankly, I can barely justify the risk on Kyrie making 39M, but 50M is just too much in light of all the history, and that's part of my extension equation too.

I don't know that Kyrie would be open to an extend-and-trade, but to me it's a non-starter if he has no interest. Even with that, I'm still sensitive to what BKN will accept in trade, because balancing the payroll pressure and minutes are as much of the package as the talent and risk he brings.

[Kammrath]

whichever stupid team wants him this summer. 

Who is this team? And how is BKN going to sign and trade him when (from my seat) he has no value around the league right now?

[KillerLeft]

My point is that I would NOT trade for him and take BKN's place, to be held hostage. I have no interest in that.

Yeah, I think YOU have the right of it, or a good sense of what teams SHOULD be thinking. 

But I don't think it's going to play out that way.

[KillerLeft]

Who is this team? And how is BKN going to sign and trade him when (from my seat) he has no value around the league right now?

So you're saying he's going to have to play in China next year? 

He's going to get at least a 1-year MAX offer from someone, even in (his) worst case scenario. If Brooklyn gives the best offer, he'll take it. You can take that to the bank. If they don't, and they're willing to help him get to a team without room who might've talked themselves into making a better offer (3 years?) then I bet they'll get THEN a better value for that trade than what you're expecting them to swallow NOW, at the deadline, and they'll have had the benefit of Irving playing down the stretch for a contract, which I assume will be as close to ideal behavior as he can get. 

I don't think he gets traded unless the Nets GET value for him. Now "value" is relative, but they're going to GET it, not GIVE it.

[Tyler]

I don't know that Kyrie would be open to an extend-and-trade, but to me it's a non-starter if he has no interest. Even with that, I'm still sensitive to what BKN will accept in trade, because balancing the payroll pressure and minutes are as much of the package as the talent and risk he brings.

I see this as showtime for Nico. This type of relationship issue is exactly why Cuban hired him.

Irving clearly doesn't trust Brooklyn, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. But perhaps Nico can use the trust he has built with players over the years to say something like:

"Look -- we want you here long term. But we need a 2 year extension commitment from you now to make it happen. I'm going to assume it all works out, and you can trust me to make it right in the long run. And in the meantime, need a hand with a new shoe deal?"

If Nico can make that pitch work, I think we're in business. And BTW, that level of trust is also something the famously fickle Lakers definitely cannot offer.

[Mavs2021]

Well, I hope the Mavs stick to your playbook, because I don't want him here under ANY circumstances and your bottom line would mean nothing happens, I think.

---

Hell, the Nets can probably get a better deal than what some of you are suggesting by simply agreeing to sign and trade him to whichever stupid team wants him this summer. 

This bargain basement "fleecing" of the Nets at the deadline is not going to happen. You're all setting yourselves up for disappointment.

But there are situational opportunities.

1. Durant doesn´t want to play with Westbrook, so has to be a three-way deal.
2. Durant wants to win now, which puts pressure on Nets. 
3. LeBron wants to win now, which puts pressure on Lakers.
4. LeBron doesn´t care about 2027 1sts or Bertans contractual obligations.
5. Kyrie wants to play in LA and get paid.
 
All this at least makes a deal like....

Westbrook + 1st to Mavs
Kyrie (with extension) + Bertans to Lakers
Dinwiddie + THJ to Nets

a possibility...though obviously there is a chance the Nets can get a better package. I´d even consider adding Wood, though I´d prefer other outcomes with him.

Doncic
Green
Bullock
DFS
Kleber

plus max capspace + plus additional future assets. That´s like a pipedream outcome of this deadline.

[SkenfromLMF]

What would the Heat have to give to get Kyrie for Lowery?

Dallas could agree to take Lowery and get Ben Simmons
Dallas sends Dinwiddie; Hardaway, Bertans, McGee
Miami would likely have to send another piece out to cover the Trade Kicker on Kyrie.

I would consider this move because Lowery fits the Summer of '24 timeline and converts Hardaway and Bertans into Simmons.

Miami might DEMAND that Duncan Robinson be part of this process, and that muddies the water. I don't know that Robinson to NJ, Curry to Dallas fixes it financially, but it sure looks like Dallas sends out picks to accommodate that counter-offer.