GAME 3: DAL (1-2) @ NOP (3-1) | 111-113 loss

[mvossman]

It´s not that this cannot be a good team. It´s that there is just no path forward to be a great team. On the current path there is no way to be a legit championship contender. Not when other teams have young cores like the Pelicans, Wolves, Grizzlies, Nuggets just in our own conference.

I don't completely agree.  Its just that with all of the fuckups since Luka, they only have one legit choice (and Its not to tank with the best player in the NBA).  Next offseason they will have all of their picks and salary filler.  They have one last chance to get it right.  Adding a legit high level two way player (defender and creator) will put this team into contention.

[Smitty]

I don't completely agree.  Its just that with all of the fuckups since Luka, they only have one legit choice (and Its not to tank with the best player in the NBA).  Next offseason they will have all of their picks and salary filler.  They have one last chance to get it right.  Adding a legit high level two way player (defender and creator) will put this team into contention.

Isn't the pick top 10 protected? One Luka injury away from that being a real possibility. If it doesn't convey, when would the Mavs have all of their future picks to trade?

[ItsGoTime]

I don't completely agree.  Its just that with all of the fuckups since Luka, they only have one legit choice (and Its not to tank with the best player in the NBA).  Next offseason they will have all of their picks and salary filler.  They have one last chance to get it right.  Adding a legit high level two way player (defender and creator) will put this team into contention.

I agree with this, however, if that play is Siakam (if he’s available) that puts our contending window at about 2-3 years. I really would prefer getting younger unproven players with those picks (mostly because with 4 picks the hope is to split them and get 2 players to finish off their young years) I was thinking earlier about a Bulls trade for Ball and Patrick Williams using DFS and SD and a couple picks. I’m seeing a lot of trades with Ball in them and that team needs reliable players to get them where they want to go with their aging core.


I was also thinking of PJ Washington and Haywood in Cha, but without THJ, it’s hard to come up with the money for that trade. However, if we could swing that deal using like Bullock, Green, Frank and Maxi and a couple firsts, that gets us 3 young players at the 6’6” to 6’10” range to mix and match with Luka and Wood with Hayward leading the second team to finish his career here.

If you can get away with 1 pick and swaps for either trade, we could use the 28 this year to do it. The Bulls trade puts us in a tighter spot if the Cha trade doesn’t happen right away with SD leaving and Ball being out for quite a while, but I’d still do it knowing we have a future with that group.

[Smitty]

I agree with this, however, if that play is Siakam (if he’s available) that puts our contending window at about 2-3 years. I really would prefer getting younger unproven players with those picks (mostly because with 4 picks the hope is to split them and get 2 players to finish off their young years) I was thinking earlier about a Bulls trade for Ball and Patrick Williams using DFS and SD and a couple picks. I’m seeing a lot of trades with Ball in them and that team needs reliable players to get them where they want to go with their aging core.


I was also thinking of PJ Washington and Haywood in Cha, but without THJ, it’s hard to come up with the money for that trade. However, if we could swing that deal using like Bullock, Green, Frank and Maxi and a couple firsts, that gets us 3 young players at the 6’6” to 6’10” range to mix and match with Luka and Wood with Hayward leading the second team to finish his career here.

If you can get away with 1 pick and swaps for either trade, we could use the 28 this year to do it. The Bulls trade puts us in a tighter spot if the Cha trade doesn’t happen right away with SD leaving and Ball being out for quite a while, but I’d still do it knowing we have a future with that group.

PJ Washington would be a great fit here! Kind of like Wood is what we thought KP would be... PJ is what the good version of Maxi looks like. Sign me up!

[ItsGoTime]

PJ Washington would be a great fit here! Kind of like Wood is what we thought KP would be... PJ is what the good version of Maxi looks like. Sign me up!

Yes, and if I could only swing 1 of them, I’d hope for that one. Hayward is a tough pill to swallow, but he can still play and is a ball handler.

[dirkfansince1998]

What's going on here?

I think @"DanSchwartzgan" confused bball refs boxscore based metric with +/- based metrics. Leading to completly different results. Based on +/- metrics McGee was a negative last season. A  noticable trend.  According to his on/off numbers in 9 out of his 10 last seasons teams played better defense when he wasn´t on the floor.

[IamDougieFresh]

I think @"DanSchwartzgan" confused bball refs boxscore based metric with +/- based metrics. Leading to completly different results. Based on +/- metrics McGee was a negative last season. A  noticable trend.  According to his on/off numbers in 9 out of his 10 last seasons teams played better defense when he wasn´t on the floor.

I just like to troll him because his basketball opinions are the complete opposite of mine

[Hypermav]

McGee better watch his back, DP scheming to get his precious 12 minutes.

[Hypermav]

https://twitter.com/Vengeancewood/status/1585304235599482883?s=20&t=wHIIOT0tbOGsvQb6wwaozw

[cow]

Does Diamond understand how treadmills work?

[ThisIStheYear]

The loss last night would be the equivalent of the Mavs winning a game against a fully healthy Pelicans team without Luka, Wood, and DFS. It’s unfathomable.  I don’t even see how such a team could score 80 points.  That would be the worst team in the league.  That’s how far the Mavs have to go to upgrade this roster into a truly competitive team. It’s a depressing gulf. This looks like at best another nice 50 win team with some entertaining Luka highlights in store for us that may win a playoff series. Whoop de do.  It’s like Cuban gravy training at the end of Dirk’s prime with Monte and guys like that. It’s an interesting team for Sacramento, but I barely watched in those years. I don’t know that Cuban really has it in him anymore to steward the career of a full blown international superstar like Luka. You have to give more than you get when you have that responsibility.

[Mavsfan12]

The loss last night would be the equivalent of the Mavs winning a game against a fully healthy Pelicans team without Luka, Wood, and DFS. It’s unfathomable.  I don’t even see how such a team could score 80 points.  That would be the worst team in the league.  That’s how far the Mavs have to go to upgrade this roster into a truly competitive team. It’s a depressing gulf. This looks like at best another nice 50 win team with some entertaining Luka highlights in store for us that may win a playoff series. Whoop de do.  It’s like Cuban gravy training at the end of Dirk’s prime with Monte and guys like that. It’s an interesting team for Sacramento, but I barely watched in those years. I don’t know that Cuban really has it in him anymore to steward the career of a full blown international superstar like Luka. You have to give more than you get when you have that responsibility.

I agree.  I am still in awe that he didn't pony up the cash to retain JB - a borderline all-star talent that could not be replaced otherwise.  You have a chance to make a push for the finals and challenge for the ring every year with that move (and wood).  Settles for being competitive and one of many teams that "could make a run".  Man, it would be nice to have owners like GS/LAC who seize the moment and push their chips in for a winner!

[mvossman]

The loss last night would be the equivalent of the Mavs winning a game against a fully healthy Pelicans team without Luka, Wood, and DFS. It’s unfathomable.  I don’t even see how such a team could score 80 points.  That would be the worst team in the league.  That’s how far the Mavs have to go to upgrade this roster into a truly competitive team. It’s a depressing gulf. This looks like at best another nice 50 win team with some entertaining Luka highlights in store for us that may win a playoff series. Whoop de do.  It’s like Cuban gravy training at the end of Dirk’s prime with Monte and guys like that. It’s an interesting team for Sacramento, but I barely watched in those years. I don’t know that Cuban really has it in him anymore to steward the career of a full blown international superstar like Luka. You have to give more than you get when you have that responsibility.

Good teams lose to terrible teams all the time in the NBA.  It's a long season, and teams sometimes struggle to get up for bad teams (or teams missing their best players).  I'm fairly sure if you go back and look at any of the contenders last year you will find losses like this.  This single game early in the season that we obviously did not get up for says nothing about how far this team needs to go.

[Chicagojk]

Mavs are very close to being 3-0 but man that game last night really bothered me.  It was really bad.  It is common for teams to relax against short staffed teams.  That is normal.  I kept waiting for Dallas to buckle in and put the game away.  I thought they were when they got up by 7 in the fourth but the Pelicans made some good plays and the mavs were careless.

I hated the lack of defense to start the game.  I hated McGee’s performance.  Give me Powell if that is we are going to get.  I know what Powell will bring each game.  I hated the no factor of DFS and Bullock.
On offense.  I hated the lack of ball movement.  We are way too much Luka dependent.  I keep hoping we get to a more movement offense but we keep getting further away from it.  I hate how Josh Green is being used.  I hate all the threes.  I hate how Luka plays the whole quarter where it appears late in quarters he gets bored or tired at times. I hate relying on Maxi to make a pass.  I hate our slow pace.  

It is only one game but man that game sucked.  Oh and the Pelicans may be a problem.  Talented, deep and young. With a ton of draft picks.

[mvossman]

I think @"DanSchwartzgan" confused bball refs boxscore based metric with +/- based metrics. Leading to completly different results. Based on +/- metrics McGee was a negative last season. A  noticable trend.  According to his on/off numbers in 9 out of his 10 last seasons teams played better defense when he wasn´t on the floor.

McGee plays a unique role that is particularly unsuited to +/- metrics.  He is a backup center that plays against starters to soak up wear and tear.  

I'm not really sure what simple +/- tell you anyways, even with a big sample.  There is too much noise and lack of context.  Looking at last season:

Boban had the highest net rating
WCS had one of the highest net ratings
Bullock had the highest net rating of the regulars
Brunson had an average net rating on the team
Luka had one of the lower net ratings

What am I supposed to glean from that?  I would much rather look at an advanced stat like EPM that takes into account who was on the floor when they played (teammates and opponents).

[DallasMaverick]

I agree.  I am still in awe that he didn't pony up the cash to retain JB - a borderline all-star talent that could not be replaced otherwise.  You have a chance to make a push for the finals and challenge for the ring every year with that move (and wood).  Settles for being competitive and one of many teams that "could make a run".  Man, it would be nice to have owners like GS/LAC who seize the moment and push their chips in for a winner!

Right!  And the Lakers, too!

[DanSchwartzgan]

I think @"DanSchwartzgan" confused bball refs boxscore based metric with +/- based metrics. Leading to completly different results. Based on +/- metrics McGee was a negative last season. A  noticable trend.  According to his on/off numbers in 9 out of his 10 last seasons teams played better defense when he wasn´t on the floor.

I don’t typically see Dwight Hater’s posts unless someone quotes them.  But here, you are referencing me, so it made me click into the post to see what was going on.

I didn’t quote +/- at all.  I quoted D Rating.  Phoenix was a very good defensive team and he had the best D Rating among their regulars (as I recall).  I made the logical leap that he at least had something to do with the team holding opponents to a lower scoring output when he was in the game.  You know, great D gets even better when he plays, then maybe he’s contributing positively to that rating.  BTW, that was a D-Rating of 102 last year and he’s at 100 (his career best) in three games with Dallas.

I think you have to be careful about +/-, especially with a bench player who subs in for a near all-star max player.  Phoenix won the minutes that McGee was on the floor last year.  But, Phoenix won the minutes Ayton was on the floor for by even more.  Does that make McGee bad?  Or, Ayton good?  I used to point this out as relates to Shawn Marion.  He was always a fantastic +/- guy until he got to Dallas.  Then, year after year he was negative.  Did Marion become a dog here or was it because when he played PF it meant Dirk was sitting?

Everyone looked like garbage defensively against NO, so I’m not jumping to conclusions about any of this until we see a few more games.  McGee’s job right now is to help shut down opponent scoring the first six minutes each half.  Obviously, he doesn’t do that by himself, but a D-Rating of 100 says that is largely happening.

[Kammrath]

Everyone looked like garbage defensively against NO, so I’m not jumping to conclusions about any of this until we see a few more games.

Yep.

[Scott41theMavs]

Yep.

I'll say it again - it was very obvious they all went out for hurricanes the night before.

[Chicagojk]

I will add I was really impressed with Dyson Daniels first real playing time.  I really liked him in my limited viewing of him last year.  The question was shooting.  If he can be respectable there, he is a good quality starter in the league