ROSTER TALK: Mavs favs for Vogel if no HC job exists. Kyrie handshake deal?

[Smitty]

Put me in the camp that believes Josh Green will be a good player this year. I’m actually less upset about the off-season, as I sip on my bourbon, because I’ve talked myself into a breakout season for the young fella.

[Scott41theMavs]

Put me in the camp that believes Josh Green will be a good player this year. I’m actually less upset about the off-season, as I sip on my bourbon, because I’ve talked myself into a breakout season for the young fella.

Evidently you're enjoying some fine Colombian too. Cocaine is a helluva drug.

[cow]

[Smitty]

Evidently you're enjoying some fine Colombian too. Cocaine is a helluva drug.

WHY CAN’T JOSH GREEN BE A SUPERSTAR FRANCHISE PLAYER?!

[BoredAssistant]

Put me in the same camp.

https://c.tenor.com/VmMVgfyIgbgAAAAC/mic...arface.gif

[Smitty]

Put me in the same camp.

https://c.tenor.com/VmMVgfyIgbgAAAAC/mic...arface.gif

https://tenor.com/5Iqe.gif

[cow]

[mvossman]

Put me in the camp that believes Josh Green will be a good player this year. I’m actually less upset about the off-season, as I sip on my bourbon, because I’ve talked myself into a breakout season for the young fella.

Its possible, but it wont be as a point guard.  That is still a huge hole on the roster.

[Winter]

Put me in the camp that believes Josh Green will be a good player this year. I’m actually less upset about the off-season, as I sip on my bourbon, because I’ve talked myself into a breakout season for the young fella.

I can see why you'd might need bourbon for that.

If he's still here, there might be players breathing down his neck - Hardy, Lawson, or maybe Tyler Dorsey. We probably won't know the hierarchy until training camp.

[Chicagojk]

WHY CAN’T JOSH GREEN BE A SUPERSTAR FRANCHISE PLAYER?!

I think it is a coin flip if Green succeeds here or if he turns into a good solid important role player.  I can see both outcomes of being a good player or a guy who bounces around 4-5 years and never making a dent with a team.

I do believe though entering his third year that he needs playing time.   If he is kept, he needs to get consistent minutes.   Memphis can throw second round guys or undrafted ones and get solid play from youngsters.   I don't believe there is a good path for success after being a consistent player his second year to then becoming a bench warmer in his third.   We should really start seeing growth in year 3 & 4.  I know there is a roster crunch.  But if we are serious about developing his game, he needs consistent playing time.

This may not be fair, but I wonder if we would feel better about Green if this past year was his rookie year?   His first year was so strange and the team did him no favors.   He got very little out of his rookie year.   He is still 21 years old.    This next season will be very important to him and the Mavs (if he is here).

[Chicagojk]

I was thinking if we didn't have LUka and we were breaking down our roster for a tank job, how many of our non Luka players would bring back a first round pick?

DFS- I think so.   I think several teams would send lottery protected picks.
Bullock- Same.   Maybe not quite as high demand as DFS, but I think playoff teams would give a first round pick
Maxi-  I say yes.   Especially at his current contract.  A big guy who can defend and shoot.
Dinwiddie-  I am not sure.   I would lean towards no, but maybe that is way off.    
Hardaway-  Not coming off surgery, I don 't think.  
Christian Wood-  I think so as he was just traded for a first.

[cow]

I was thinking if we didn't have LUka and we were breaking down our roster for a tank job, how many of our non Luka players would bring back a first round pick?

DFS- I think so.   I think several teams would send lottery protected picks.
Bullock- Same.   Maybe not quite as high demand as DFS, but I think playoff teams would give a first round pick
Maxi-  I say yes.   Especially at his current contract.  A big guy who can defend and shoot.
Dinwiddie-  I am not sure.   I would lean towards no, but maybe that is way off.    
Hardaway-  Not coming off surgery, I don 't think.  
Christian Wood-  I think so as he was just traded for a first.

My picks bolded.  Maybe the rest too depending on what is being sent back.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Anyone here follows Isiah Livers?

Undersized PF, who can guard slower/bigger guards and smaller 4 and 5s.
Reminds me of Maxi without the rim protection.

Why would the Pistons let go of a young dude who can develop still? Because his offense is limited, and his ceiling might be just be an undersized stretch-4 who can defend some. He can be very good at it given time, and Detroit has plenty of time. But I don't think stretch 4s like him are someone you hold on to if a right deal comes along.

I can see Livers working well in Dallas. Dude fits in the 5-out and is switchable. If the Mavs really do need a wing, then he is your big-wing-stretch-4-DFS-Maxi-sub. 

Not sure what the Mavs can offer though. THJ in exchange for their NY players + Livers?, maybe add some of their PGs too? Kemba+Livers for DP and Green? (not sure I want that though, I think Green would have a breakout year).

[F Gump]

"Who will be the other PG" is an interesting speculative game, because it seems fairly certain they CAN'T ignore the issue.

There are all kinds of ways they could play this. Their trade assets are fairly obvious - THJ, DP, DB. My favorite was to hope for a swap with CHA in which Rozier is some (or all) of what the Mavs would get, because I think he'd be a really good fit, but I don't think the contract numbers would be acceptable for them in future years.

I also noodle with Sexton, since he's been mentioned, but that's hard because of all the money restrictions (apron limit, and Base Year, combined with salary-match requirements), that then get further complicated by what CLE might want (and wouldn't want). There's a path to a deal for him, I think, but it's so complex and uncertain that imo it seems very unlikely to happen. Just too many hurdles.

So I circle back around to the idea that maybe they just target an EMERGENCY guy, minimum salary, and then they plan to use some of those PG minutes for trying to develop Green or Ntilikina or maybe even Hardy a bit to handle the 3rd creator job. If they do well, they play more, and if not, then emergency guy is used. I'm wondering if something like that was in their thinking with Dragic, where he IS the 3rd guy in ability, but might not play if one of the others is effective that game.

I think that's where I am, and if that's on the right track, then I wouldn't be surprised if their list includes names like Kemba Walker (once he's bought out), Brandon Knight, and Isaiah Thomas. Same offer as made to Dragic - one year minimum, irregular minutes, but at times you'll be very needed.

[StepBackJay]

"Who will be the other PG" is an interesting speculative game, because it seems fairly certain they CAN'T ignore the issue.

There are all kinds of ways they could play this. Their trade assets are fairly obvious - THJ, DP, DB. My favorite was to hope for a swap with CHA in which Rozier is some (or all) of what the Mavs would get, because I think he'd be a really good fit, but I don't think the contract numbers would be acceptable for them in future years.

I also noodle with Sexton, since he's been mentioned, but that's hard because of all the money restrictions (apron limit, and Base Year, combined with salary-match requirements), that then get further complicated by what CLE might want (and wouldn't want). There's a path to a deal for him, I think, but it's so complex and uncertain that imo it seems very unlikely to happen. Just too many hurdles.

So I circle back around to the idea that maybe they just target an EMERGENCY guy, minimum salary, and then they plan to use some of those PG minutes for trying to develop Green or Ntilikina or maybe even Hardy a bit to handle the 3rd creator job. If they do well, they play more, and if not, then emergency guy is used. I'm wondering if something like that was in their thinking with Dragic, where he IS the 3rd guy in ability, but might not play if one of the others is effective that game.

I think that's where I am, and if that's on the right track, then I wouldn't be surprised if their list includes names like Kemba Walker (once he's bought out), Brandon Knight, and Isaiah Thomas. Same offer as made to Dragic - one year minimum, irregular minutes, but at times you'll be very needed.

I tend to agree with this. It also means they can trade for a vet or pick up a buyout guy without much trouble if the opportunity arises. The TDL is another time when guys might be come available. I think its not a bad idea to have a spot or two on the roster that is easy to free up.

[VintagePejav2]

Another vet min PG name I’ll add is Eric Bledsoe. Familiarity with Kidd/Sweeney. Defensive pedigree. And likely looking for no more than back-up roles at this point.

[ItsGoTime]

I tend to agree with this. It also means they can trade for a vet or pick up a buyout guy without much trouble if the opportunity arises. The TDL is another time when guys might be come available. I think its not a bad idea to have a spot or two on the roster that is easy to free up.

Pinson’s spot works just fine to open up the roster. No need to wait.

[F Gump]

I tend to agree with this. It also means they can trade for a vet or pick up a buyout guy without much trouble if the opportunity arises. The TDL is another time when guys might be come available. I think its not a bad idea to have a spot or two on the roster that is easy to free up.

I don't think they will go 2/3 of the season (to TDL) without a 3rd guy, but I think they might pursue temp-like solutions to begin ... ie, where they have a guy on a non-guaranteed (or lightly guaranteed) contract, allowing them to move off of him should they get a better solution.

The idea of Bledsoe (assuming he gets bought out) is a good add to the list, and would get a guaranteed deal of course. Kemba probably would as well. I suspect Mavs are waiting for one or the other of these to be freed up. Or maybe waiting for all the dominos to line up for a trade for a 3rd guy.

But Thomas or Knight would likely be giddy to get whatever they can get, and available any time even if there are no guarantees -- Knight especially, who by my count needs another year of service (or any part thereof) to qualify for the security of the lucrative NBA pension. Dorsey wouldn't be the answer, so I think he's gotta be satisfied to be just a 2-way guy for now. Pinson, not an answer, not a player really, the cheerleader thing is annoyingly in the way, but it is what it is.

[StepBackJay]

I don't think they will go 2/3 of the season (to TDL) without a 3rd guy, but I think they might pursue temp-like solutions to begin ... ie, where they have a guy on a non-guaranteed (or lightly guaranteed) contract, allowing them to move off of him should they get a better solution.

The idea of Bledsoe (assuming he gets bought out) is a good add to the list, and would get a guaranteed deal of course. Kemba probably would as well. I suspect Mavs are waiting for one or the other of these to be freed up. Or maybe waiting for all the dominos to line up for a trade for a 3rd guy.

But Thomas or Knight would likely be giddy to get whatever they can get, and available any time even if there are no guarantees -- Knight especially, who by my count needs another year of service (or any part thereof) to qualify for the security of the lucrative NBA pension. Dorsey wouldn't be the answer, so I think he's gotta be satisfied to be just a 2-way guy for now. Pinson, not an answer, not a player really, the cheerleader thing is annoyingly in the way, but it is what it is.

Right I don't disagree with any of that. I think Kemba is probably cooked at this point but Knight seems like he could be a good fit. My point was that if you have a guy like that and you need to waive them later bc some deal comes along then it would be easy enough to do.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Anyone here follows Isiah Livers?

Undersized PF, who can guard slower/bigger guards and smaller 4 and 5s.
Reminds me of Maxi without the rim protection.

Why would the Pistons let go of a young dude who can develop still? Because his offense is limited, and his ceiling might be just be an undersized stretch-4 who can defend some. He can be very good at it given time, and Detroit has plenty of time. But I don't think stretch 4s like him are someone you hold on to if a right deal comes along.

I can see Livers working well in Dallas. Dude fits in the 5-out and is switchable. If the Mavs really do need a wing, then he is your big-wing-stretch-4-DFS-Maxi-sub. 

Not sure what the Mavs can offer though. THJ in exchange for their NY players + Livers?, maybe add some of their PGs too? Kemba+Livers for DP and Green? (not sure I want that though, I think Green would have a breakout year).

Kemba is not on their roster, he was bought out 2 weeks ago. If you want him, sign him. Livers is very much in Detroit's plans.Rebuilding Detroit wouldn't do that trade and they don't need THJ (salary) Green or Powell, with their current wings and bigs.