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This Season Was A Success
- This Season Was A Success
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RE: This Season Was A Success
audiosway > 05-11-2022, 01:01 AM
(05-10-2022, 10:29 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: Agreed.
If we had run a poll at the beginning of the season on the likelihood that the Mavs would find themselves tied 2-2 with the NBA's best team going into game 5 of the second round, that would've seemed like "success" to 98% of us.
Undoubtedly. I think that this season was about Kidd and Nico seeing what they have. Nico made a great trade moving KP. Gave me some serious optimism for the future. Kidd has shown me that he is more than just a capable coach. He's come into his own now as a coach. And is the right coach for this team. I'll gladly eat crow with that one.
Green made some good progress this year. I look forward to his continuing to grow as a player. I still want to see them upgrade the 5 and a wing spot. DFS, Brunson, and Luka are the core. They have some good rotation guys. But, they really need 2 more starters. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
cow > 05-11-2022, 01:56 AM
(05-11-2022, 01:01 AM)audiosway Wrote: Undoubtedly. I think that this season was about Kidd and Nico seeing what they have. Nico made a great trade moving KP. Gave me some serious optimism for the future. Kidd has shown me that he is more than just a capable coach. He's come into his own now as a coach. And is the right coach for this team. I'll gladly eat crow with that one.
Green made some good progress this year. I look forward to his continuing to grow as a player. I still want to see them upgrade the 5 and a wing spot. DFS, Brunson, and Luka are the core. They have some good rotation guys. But, they really need 2 more starters.
The playoffs have been weird as it feels like we've taken a lot of steps backwards.
-All of Green's progress from the season disappeared in the playoffs for the most part.
-Kidd's focus on defense is good. He also seems way more player friendly. He and his staff gave Green opportunities I don't think would have occurred under Carlisle. On the flipside, the offense lacks any sort of creativity, he takes too long to adjust (benching Green, giving Powell too many minutes, weird challenges in game, playing starters to far into lopsided contests).
-The KP trade looked like a win with how Dinwiddie played in the regular season. Playoff Dinwiddie has been terrible, so much so that I'm running that "what if" scenarios that featured KP still being on the team and asking if we'd be any worse off. On the flipside, Bertans has been a pleasant surprise and the guy has an aggressive streak on offense that I wish more of our role players had.
-Jalen, Jalen, Jalen. His playoffs have been a bit of a rollercoaster. He's earned a new contract, I just have no idea what he's worth. I think he'll get overpaid. I hope it is by us.
-Luka probably has me more confused than anyone. He has otherworldly basketball gifts but it feels like you might need to thread the needle to build the right type of team around him which is going to be really challenging for Mavs who have problems attracting any talent. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
omahen > 05-11-2022, 08:10 AM
(05-11-2022, 01:56 AM)cow Wrote: The playoffs have been weird as it feels like we've taken a lot of steps backwards.
I think that is a good wrap-up. I think it remains clear Mavs need to upgrade the roster. Main goal in the KP trade was increased flexibility and now it is on Mavs to prove they knew what they were doing by what seemed like a very forced trade.
(05-11-2022, 01:56 AM)cow Wrote: Luka probably has me more confused than anyone. He has otherworldly basketball gifts but it feels like you might need to thread the needle to build the right type of team around him which is going to be really challenging for Mavs who have problems attracting any talent.
I think we should at least see what Luka and team look like with another top 30 talent on the team before making judgements how difficult is to build around him. Brunson is arguably a guy who came closest to that. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
StrandedOnBeauboisHill > 05-11-2022, 12:49 PM
(05-11-2022, 01:56 AM)cow Wrote: Playoff Dinwiddie has been terrible, so much so that I'm running that "what if" scenarios that featured KP still being on the team and asking if we'd be any worse off.
Dinwiddie has me cringing when he's on the court but Bertans has already hit more threes this series that KP did all of the Clippers series. The KP matchup hunting in this series would give this board nightmares for a while.
Still a good trade but I definitely think that Dinwiddie's performance is leading to a "Who gets traded between Hardaway and Dinwiddie" debate this offseason. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
StrandedOnBeauboisHill > 05-11-2022, 12:54 PM
(05-10-2022, 08:13 PM)SwisherPrice Wrote: It's a weird feeling...one that we probably won't experience again now that expectations will increase in the future. The Mavs could get blown out in these next two games and I'd be okay with it since they already exceeded my expectations of just advancing out of the first round and avoiding a sweep vs. a great team in the next round.
Living through the Dirk era has really helped me soak in this team's success. I remember excitement of watching playoff games from 2001-2003 vs the nervousness of watching them from 2007-2010.
Of course we need to get Luka more help to climb the ultimate mountain most likely but I've enjoyed every second of watching Luka/Brunson/Dorian figure out how to find success in this league. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
cow > 05-11-2022, 01:08 PM
(05-11-2022, 08:10 AM)omahen Wrote: I think we should at least see what Luka and team look like with another top 30 talent on the team before making judgements how difficult is to build around him. Brunson is arguably a guy who came closest to that.
With how ball dominate Luka is, it's going to be hard for another top 30 guy to be paired with him. Maybe that's why Gobert is a good fit since he doesn't need the ball? Still, that contract is atrocious. Maybe John Collins is that guy, I just don't think we have enough to get him without gutting the rest of the team.
I think that's part of why Jalen struggles at times. Jalen needs to be a little more selfish on offense and not defer to Luka when they play together. I do think Jalen has struggled a bit against Phoenix and I'm not sure if I should be worried or not. The popular worry about Jalen is struggling a against bigger, more athletic defenders and that's shown up in this series. Then again, Phoenix is a great defensive team. Jalen really needs to work on his 3PT shooting and range this summer. Improving that aspect of his game would make him unstoppable.
I hate being overly critical of Luka as he is still a kid, but it's time to grow up. I'm hoping our next playoff series loss hurts him and motivates him. Dude needs to work on his body, work on his attitude and work on his effort. Kidd needs to figure out a better minutes rotation for him too. They also need to plan for a more traditional offense. Not only was last night ugly, but it's a bit of a blue print for others to follow. He also might need to retire the step back three or cut way back on them. I think he does that to save energy and that's when he should kick to Jalen and Dinwiddie and let them work. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
cow > 05-11-2022, 01:19 PM
(05-11-2022, 12:49 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Dinwiddie has me cringing when he's on the court but Bertans has already hit more threes this series that KP did all of the Clippers series. The KP matchup hunting in this series would give this board nightmares for a while.
Still a good trade but I definitely think that Dinwiddie's performance is leading to a "Who gets traded between Hardaway and Dinwiddie" debate this offseason.
I'm not saying we'd fair better with, I'm just not so sure we'd be any worse off. He has flaws sure but he'd be the second best rebounder and provide more resistance at the rim...until he got hurt. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
StrandedOnBeauboisHill > 05-11-2022, 01:44 PM
(05-11-2022, 01:19 PM)cow Wrote: I'm not saying we'd fair better with, I'm just not so sure we'd be any worse off. He has flaws sure but he'd be the second best rebounder and provide more resistance at the rim...until he got hurt.
All that is definitely fair. I think it's quite clear to me that there's going to be a big push to use our excess backcourt talent (assuming Brunson is resigned which creates a scenario with 4 guys making ~20 million) to make a trade to address rebounding and rim protection but that's obviously not a novel thought here on this board. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
mvossman > 05-11-2022, 03:49 PM
(05-11-2022, 12:49 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: Dinwiddie has me cringing when he's on the court but Bertans has already hit more threes this series that KP did all of the Clippers series. The KP matchup hunting in this series would give this board nightmares for a while.
Still a good trade but I definitely think that Dinwiddie's performance is leading to a "Who gets traded between Hardaway and Dinwiddie" debate this offseason.
I don't want to go down the KP rathole again, but its hard to imagine he would not have been helpful in a playoffs where our starting center has been completely useless. Bertans has provided a nice little offensive pop for 10 minutes a game, but Dinwiddie has been a net negative. The better argument is that the team is playing with much better chemistry without him and there is a reasonable chance he does not make it this far health wise.
I'm worried Din is tanking his value so bad in this playoffs that he wont be a viable option to send out. He and Powell have been huge disappointments this entire playoffs. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
ItsGoTime > 05-11-2022, 05:40 PM
(05-11-2022, 03:49 PM)mvossman Wrote: I'm worried Din is tanking his value so bad in this playoffs that he wont be a viable option to send out. He and Powell have been huge disappointments this entire playoffs.
What can the combination of THJ/Din/2022 first get in return value?
Moving off those 2, we would want another bench ball handler (might not have to be great, just a good floor general like JJB was in his latter years to spell Luka), a good-to-great C and a ball handling/defensive wing (to start or play big minutes off the bench) -
RE: This Season Was A Success
hakeemfaan > 05-11-2022, 06:10 PM
(05-11-2022, 01:56 AM)cow Wrote: The playoffs have been weird as it feels like we've taken a lot of steps backwards.
-All of Green's progress from the season disappeared in the playoffs for the most part.
-Kidd's focus on defense is good. He also seems way more player friendly. He and his staff gave Green opportunities I don't think would have occurred under Carlisle. On the flipside, the offense lacks any sort of creativity, he takes too long to adjust (benching Green, giving Powell too many minutes, weird challenges in game, playing starters to far into lopsided contests).
-The KP trade looked like a win with how Dinwiddie played in the regular season. Playoff Dinwiddie has been terrible, so much so that I'm running that "what if" scenarios that featured KP still being on the team and asking if we'd be any worse off. On the flipside, Bertans has been a pleasant surprise and the guy has an aggressive streak on offense that I wish more of our role players had.
-Jalen, Jalen, Jalen. His playoffs have been a bit of a rollercoaster. He's earned a new contract, I just have no idea what he's worth. I think he'll get overpaid. I hope it is by us.
-Luka probably has me more confused than anyone. He has otherworldly basketball gifts but it feels like you might need to thread the needle to build the right type of team around him which is going to be really challenging for Mavs who have problems attracting any talent.
Excellent post.
As someone who mentioned when the KP trade was made that the real absence of a bonafide secondary scorer would be felt in the playoffs as the team went deeper and faced better defenses, let me turn around and offer my defense for Dinwiddie.
The trade was a success in that they know now what type of players they want around Luka. KP would probably have scored more than Dinwiddie but at the end of the day he was not the answer. While Dinwiddie might have been playing at a level he could not have realistically sustained, he is nowhere as bad as he looks in this series either. I also remember the numerous JeT failures before the title run. I have really loved the fact that we have 3 guys that can create their own shot and it was not an accident that the Mavs were so dominant since the trade. I cannot just overlook all the clutch offensive and defensive plays that Dinwiddie has made either.
If a trade presents itself and the choice is between Dinwiddie and THJ, I would readily part with THJ as he is much more of a one dimensional player.
Regardless of how this series or season ends, and while anyone not Luka is definitely on the table, IMO our front court is a much bigger concern than anyone in our backcourt. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
F Gump > 05-11-2022, 06:14 PM
(05-11-2022, 05:40 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: What can the combination of THJ/Din/2022 first get in return value?
Moving off those 2, we would want another bench ball handler (might not have to be great, just a good floor general like JJB was in his latter years to spell Luka), a good-to-great C and a ball handling/defensive wing (to start or play big minutes off the bench)
Looks like a call for "change for change sake" or for some impossible quest to complain when it does not happen
n/a - a good-to-great C ... the guy you want is Embiid, Jokic, Bam, Giannis but impossible ideas
Burke - another (3rd string) bench ball handler, good floor general - plus, Dinwiddie is here already
Green/Ntilikina - a ball handling/defensive wing - both show obvious upside potential, and are here already -
RE: This Season Was A Success
ItsGoTime > 05-11-2022, 06:29 PM
(05-11-2022, 06:14 PM)F Gump Wrote: n/a - a good-to-great C ...
No it is not.
the guy you want is Embiid, Jokic, Bam, Giannis
(05-11-2022, 06:14 PM)F Gump Wrote: Burke - another (3rd string) bench ball handler, good floor general - plus, Dinwiddie is here already
The thought is to either lower the overall talent at G, to upgrade more at the big position(s). Someone like Dragic comes to mind who could take on the role I'm thinking of very well on a much lower salary. Then, there is still a bit of room to fit Green and Frank into the rotation as well to keep developing them, while not having to rely on their contributions.
(05-11-2022, 06:14 PM)F Gump Wrote: Green/Ntilikina - a ball handling/defensive wing - both show obvious upside potential, and are here already
Developmental guys on the roster are great, but they can't (and aren't as is proven by these playoffs) carry big loads. Getting a wing that can floor the ball and attack close outs is missing from our roster currently.
(05-11-2022, 06:14 PM)F Gump Wrote: Looks like a call for "change for change sake" or for some impossible quest to complain when it does not happen
More a call for "change for balance sake" all in an impossible quest to make this an uncircumstantial championship caliber team, but you do you. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
mvossman > 05-11-2022, 09:18 PM
(05-11-2022, 05:40 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: What can the combination of THJ/Din/2022 first get in return value?
Moving off those 2, we would want another bench ball handler (might not have to be great, just a good floor general like JJB was in his latter years to spell Luka), a good-to-great C and a ball handling/defensive wing (to start or play big minutes off the bench)
Your not going to get all of that. THJ is neutral value at best and Din may be tanking his value so bad it wont make sense to try to move him. The first is late and awkward to trade as it has to be during the draft.
As for your guy to run the bench unit, we already have that in Brunson. With Luka and Brunson playing over 30 minutes a game, you can easily the can both easily start (and finish) while staggering minutes the rest of the game. Brunson is at his best when Luka is not on the court anyways.
A good to great center is going to be tough. Guys like Turner, Capela and Poeltl are probably going to cost more than THJ + pick. We could probably get somebody like Holmes and gamble that he can revert to what he was prior to this last season.
After that your best bet is a young rotational big that might develop into a starter. Guys like Hartenstein, PJ Washington, Jaxson Hayes, Naz Reid.
I don't see any path to that ball handling defensive wing. Wont get that with the tax MLE, and I am having a hard time thinking of one that would be available for a late first? In the short term we are probably going to have to hope for development from Green and Frank. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
hakeemfaan > 05-15-2022, 09:19 PM
(05-11-2022, 06:10 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: Excellent post.
As someone who mentioned when the KP trade was made that the real absence of a bonafide secondary scorer would be felt in the playoffs as the team went deeper and faced better defenses, let me turn around and offer my defense for Dinwiddie.
The trade was a success in that they know now what type of players they want around Luka. KP would probably have scored more than Dinwiddie but at the end of the day he was not the answer. While Dinwiddie might have been playing at a level he could not have realistically sustained, he is nowhere as bad as he looks in this series either. I also remember the numerous JeT failures before the title run. I have really loved the fact that we have 3 guys that can create their own shot and it was not an accident that the Mavs were so dominant since the trade. I cannot just overlook all the clutch offensive and defensive plays that Dinwiddie has made either.
If a trade presents itself and the choice is between Dinwiddie and THJ, I would readily part with THJ as he is much more of a one dimensional player.
Regardless of how this series or season ends, and while anyone not Luka is definitely on the table, IMO our front court is a much bigger concern than anyone in our backcourt.
Bump. I won’t bump my posts when this trade was first made though
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RE: This Season Was A Success
cow > 05-15-2022, 09:37 PM
This thread is now correct. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
fifteenth > 05-15-2022, 10:55 PM
LOL
Honey Badger don't care -
RE: This Season Was A Success
ThisIStheYear > 05-26-2022, 10:32 PM
Nice season. Started the season with too many centers. Finished with none. But otherwise, can’t really complain. It was fun to watch basketball into late May. My hope for next season, Luka comes back fit and motivated. The Mavs find a center. And the NBA fixes its atrocious officiating. -
RE: This Season Was A Success
KillerLeft > 05-27-2022, 02:48 AM
This was a top-10 season in the history of the franchise, and they did it in Kidd’s first season with a team built around a 23 year-old.
Now, it’s time for Nico to show us what’s what. I hope he’s up to the job. If he is, the future is bright.
