So which is it? Coaching or talent?

[SleepingHero]

But Indy tanked on purpose this year.

Indy only tanked on purpose this year AFTER they came out of the gates flat and couldn't perform. IND was slated to be a playoff team before the season began. They were treading water (15-28) until Turner was out for the season. After which they promptly decided to go all in on the tank and traded Sabonis. 

But it begs the question, why did a very talented IND team start the season so poorly under RC? They had the 2nd worst defense in the league.

[cow]

Indy only tanked on purpose this year AFTER they came out of the gates flat and couldn't perform. IND was slated to be a playoff team before the season began. They were treading water (15-28) until Turner was out for the season. After which they promptly decided to go all in on the tank and traded Sabonis. 

But it begs the question, why did a very talented IND team start the season so poorly under RC? They had the 2nd worst defense in the league.

Turner pouted a bunch so there was obviously some strife between he and Sabonis.  I'm sure Turner wasn't expecting to be a Pacer beyond the year, if even that.

[Winter]

I think the media (and even the fan base to a degree) assumed every player not named Luca was little more than a rotation player. I think this team was always better and had more talent than it got credit for. Even when Luca injured his calf, there were media guys saying this wasn't much more than a lottery team. So a lot of people bought the hype - which amounted to a team known as "Luca and some other guys".

Kidd was also underestimated. Probably because you couldn't measure what he had learned in Los Angeles as an assistant coach. People mostly just saw his failings as a head coach from years earlier. But if you read at all, there were a lot of players in LA who said Kidd was instrumental in building trust with the players. There were also some head coaches like Carlisle who thought he was ready for another chance. We - the fan base - were just reluctant to see that. 

So really, the answer to the question is clearly both things.

[dirkfansince1998]

Indy only tanked on purpose this year AFTER they came out of the gates flat and couldn't perform. IND was slated to be a playoff team before the season began. They were treading water (15-28) until Turner was out for the season. After which they promptly decided to go all in on the tank and traded Sabonis. 

But it begs the question, why did a very talented IND team start the season so poorly under RC? They had the 2nd worst defense in the league.

Injuries.Warren missed the entire season. McConnell missed half of the season. Levert and Brogdon missed a lot of games. Turner´s injury was the final nail in the coffin.
They obviously didn´t rush anyone back but looking at the total amount of games played Sabonis (who was traded at the deadline) is leading the team.

Turner 42/82 games
Brogdon 36/82 games
McConnell 27/82 games
Levert 39/55 games

Bad chemistry/fit. Especially the Turner/Sabonis situation. Something they fixed.

That being said. Their inability to win close games reminded me of the Mavs in 19/20. Just couldn´t close games. 20 games into the season they had a top ten SRS and a losing record. Similar trend in Orlando.

[Kammrath]

But I fear we’re overlooking how bad this Jazz team really is.

So the Jazz have less talent than the Mavs? Or worse coaching than the Mavs? What makes them "bad"?

[dirkfansince1998]

Answering the initial question. What happened at the deadline? What should have happened earlier. Addition by subtraction. Getting rid of KP unleashed the quick and versatile small ball lineups. Quick and versatile. Switch heavy. No more drop defense in the pick and roll. No one clogging the paint. Better perimeter defense. Better spacing.
Not to mention that it looks like the chemistry is better than ever. No shot hunting. No one complaining about the lack of touches.

Anyone that needs a reminder of the KP era just needs to watch the Jazz defense. Trying to defend the perimeter with Gobert and Whiteside at center. Giving up wide open corner 3s all game long.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/KevinGraySports/stat...6555301888

[fifteenth]

Answering the initial question. What happened at the deadline? What should have happened earlier. Addition by subtraction. Getting rid of KP unleashed the quick and versatile small ball lineups. Quick and versatile. Switch heavy. No more drop defense in the pick and roll. No one clogging the paint. Better perimeter defense. Better spacing.
Not to mention that it looks like the chemistry is better than ever. No shot hunting. No one complaining about the lack of touches.

Anyone that needs a reminder of the KP era just needs to watch the Jazz defense. Trying to defend the perimeter with Gobert and Whiteside at center. Giving up wide open corner 3s all game long.

+ 1 billion

[cow]

So the Jazz have less talent than the Mavs? Or worse coaching than the Mavs? What makes them "bad"?

-Snyder is getting outcoached.  There are Mavs players that he should be exploiting on the defensive end but isn't don't that consistently.  Benching Gobert got the Jazz back in the game last night.  He just doesn't seem great at making in game adjustments.
-There is a general disrespect around the league for Gobert and there certainly seems to be with Utah's best player.
-Conley seems to be on the backside of his career.  
-Clarkson, while I think has been good this series, couldn't keep up his 6th man of the year pace from his prior season.
-JIngles is hurt and gone.
-Mitchell continues to struggle in the clutch, just like he has the entire regular season.

I don't think the Jazz are "bad", but I do think calling them a "mess" is apt.  This current iteration seems to have run its' course and they are in need of a retooling.  They'll probably fire their coach, try to get rid of Gobert (which might be difficult to return value on), maybe trade Conley (two more years left on his deal, 22m and 24m the last year with 14m guaranteed, all to try to appease Mitchell.

Utah is the polar opposite of Dallas right now.  On paper, they should sweep the Mavs without Luka.  Kidd just has a better game plan and our rag tag group is executing better and our chemistry is miles ahead.

[ItsGoTime]

-Snyder is getting outcoached.  There are Mavs players that he should be exploiting on the defensive end but isn't don't that consistently.  Benching Gobert got the Jazz back in the game last night.  He just doesn't seem great at making in game adjustments.
-There is a general disrespect around the league for Gobert and there certainly seems to be with Utah's best player.
-Conley seems to be on the backside of his career.  
-Clarkson, while I think has been good this series, couldn't keep up his 6th man of the year pace from his prior season.
-JIngles is hurt and gone.
-Mitchell continues to struggle in the clutch, just like he has the entire regular season.

I don't think the Jazz are "bad", but I do think calling them a "mess" is apt.  This current iteration seems to have run its' course and they are in need of a retooling.  They'll probably fire their coach, try to get rid of Gobert (which might be difficult to return value on), maybe trade Conley (two more years left on his deal, 22m and 24m the last year with 14m guaranteed, all to try to appease Mitchell.

Utah is the polar opposite of Dallas right now.  On paper, they should sweep the Mavs without Luka.  Kidd just has a better game plan and our rag tag group is executing better and our chemistry is miles ahead.

This is astute!

[windjc]

-Snyder is getting outcoached.  There are Mavs players that he should be exploiting on the defensive end but isn't don't that consistently.  Benching Gobert got the Jazz back in the game last night.  He just doesn't seem great at making in game adjustments.
-There is a general disrespect around the league for Gobert and there certainly seems to be with Utah's best player.
-Conley seems to be on the backside of his career.  
-Clarkson, while I think has been good this series, couldn't keep up his 6th man of the year pace from his prior season.
-JIngles is hurt and gone.
-Mitchell continues to struggle in the clutch, just like he has the entire regular season.

I don't think the Jazz are "bad", but I do think calling them a "mess" is apt.  This current iteration seems to have run its' course and they are in need of a retooling.  They'll probably fire their coach, try to get rid of Gobert (which might be difficult to return value on), maybe trade Conley (two more years left on his deal, 22m and 24m the last year with 14m guaranteed, all to try to appease Mitchell.

Utah is the polar opposite of Dallas right now.  On paper, they should sweep the Mavs without Luka.  Kidd just has a better game plan and our rag tag group is executing better and our chemistry is miles ahead.

Our team is not a bunch of rag tags. Dinwiddie led the Nets to the playoffs as the #1 guy. Brunson is a two time NCAA champion and has improved dramatically every year. He is starting to be a Nash/Paul hybrid player. If he improves a few more seasons he will be near/at that level.

DSW has become one of the best 3 and Ds in the league. Bullock is not too far behind, but I could see why "rag tag" might fit here for now with him. 

Our back court is out playing and out defending the Jazz's backcourt. Both centers are mismatches for a wash.

We have talent. We see it right now. The Jazz shot 56%+ LAST NIGHT! How is this terrible?

[cow]

Our team is not a bunch of rag tags. Dinwiddie led the Nets to the playoffs as the #1 guy. Brunson is a two time NCAA champion and has improved dramatically every year. He is starting to be a Nash/Paul hybrid player. If he improves a few more seasons he will be near/at that level.

DSW has become one of the best 3 and Ds in the league. Bullock is not too far behind, but I could see why "rag tag" might fit here for now with him. 

Our back court is out playing and out defending the Jazz's backcourt. Both centers are mismatches for a wash.

We have talent. We see it right now. The Jazz shot 56%+ LAST NIGHT! How is this terrible?

Compared to the "names" on Utah, yes we are rag tags.  That's not an insult, the opposite really.

DSW is a discount shoe company, not a Dallas Maverick.  You'll also find no bigger fan of "DSW" than me.

If you are on an NBA roster, you have talent.  Who said anything about terrible?

[Jommybone]

So the Jazz have less talent than the Mavs? Or worse coaching than the Mavs? What makes them "bad"?

Like the question but not sure I have an answer. My post you quoted did not mean to project confidence in the opinion. I’m just fearful that’s the answer. Right now, it looks to me like the Mavs can get open 3s at will, while the Jazz can’t even stay close by shooting 57% from the field. That’s a recipe for a 4-1 series even without Luka. 

The Jazz are 24-24 since New Year’s after a 26-9 start. They’ve now won 5 of their last 14. Their problems are not new. 

Donovan Mitchell doesn’t play much defense and isn’t efficient on offense. Rudy Gobert can’t switch onto guards and can’t punish small-ball defenders on the other end. Clarkson and Bogdanovic have impressed. But neither is a defensive stalwart. Father Time has turned Conley into just another guy. It’s not a good roster. 

Let’s ask which of the Mavs players could start for Utah. Luka? Duh. Jalen? No doubt now, in Conley’s spot. DFS? Yep, in place of Royce. As would Maxi and probably Reg. Does Utah have 5 guys who would start for the Mavs? I can only get to 3. And that’s counting Rudy, who’d have to sit for most of the playoffs. 

I don’t fault Utah coaching. Not going after the right Mavs defenders? Heck, his guys just made 57% of their FGs and 94% of 33 FTs. Offense isn’t the problem. The problem is they can’t defend 5 out with that roster. I see no fix for that. And I’m expecting a 4-1 series regardless of when Luka returns. Because Utah is a very flawed team. Not a good one.

Now that I’ve put my thoughts in writing, I assume the Jazz will have an amazing game 4 and make me look silly. It happens a lot in basketball. (Can’t control what the ball do. Crazy, man. Y’all hilarious.)

[fifteenth]

Let’s ask which of the Mavs players could start for Utah. Luka? Duh. Jalen? No doubt now, in Conley’s spot. DFS? Yep, in place of Royce. As would Maxi and probably Reg. Does Utah have 5 guys who would start for the Mavs? I can only get to 3. And that’s counting Rudy, who’d have to sit for most of the playoffs. 

[burekemde]

Utah did a lot better with Gobert out. Now, that is something Kidd needs to seriously look at, and be ready to counter, if needed. Utah maybe forced to go in that direction if down 3-1. Or even already the next game.

[DrMav]

Utah did a lot better with Gobert out. Now, that is something Kidd needs to seriously look at, and be ready to counter, if needed. Utah maybe forced to go in that direction if down 3-1. Or even already the next game.

I feel like Luka-Powell PnR would destroy that Utah small ball lineup that threw out. Hopefully he’s healthy and available if they go that route again.

[burekemde]

I feel like Luka-Powell PnR would destroy that Utah small ball lineup that threw out. Hopefully he’s healthy and available if they go that route again.

Totally agree, great point. Gobert is definitely annoying to Luka as he protects the paint so well. Luka is still effective against Gobert, can draw him out of paint etc, and if Lukas 3 is falling in, he can kill a Gobert lineup, but Gobert does give Luka some resistance and makes him rely a lot on his 3 ball which is always risky. On other hand, a small ball Utah lineup not featuring Gobert, means Luka will dominate the paint with almost certainty. Luka is definitely destroying the tactics in case Utah would chose to bench Gobert. And they really might be forced to. I think we even will see this tonight, either benchign Gobert or feature him less. They have no other option. Unless they start the game a lot better with Gobert.

[ThisIStheYear]

Let’s wait until these guys win a couple of series, not games, before we start talking about stuff like this. Anything can happen over a couple of games.

[Jommybone]

Let’s wait until these guys win a couple of series, not games, before we start talking about stuff like this. Anything can happen over a couple of games.

I get your point. But nobody will be interested in how bad the Jazz suck a couple series later. Now is the time.

[ReunionMav]

We are winning with 5 out because we are making our shots very effectively. If we start missing leading to Utah transition baskets this could turn a game very quickly. 

I love and agree with many of the posts above. Utah should play very well today with desperate pride and aggression. Today will tell a lot about the overall condition of their team looking forward. I think they might rise up today after already scoring well. I also think it might not be good enough.