GAME 59: DAL (35-24) vs. NOP (23-36): 125-118 WIN!

[KillerLeft]

I am claiming that his value at present is in his trade value.

I think this might end up being the case. 

Then again, I'd argue that he has shown enough already, earning a regular rotation spot during the best stretch of play the team has displayed in 3-4 seasons and actually contributing to that success, to create a situation wherein his value could also be that he's trusted to shoulder a bigger load in the near future (next season, even, possibly) when players ahead of him are traded to improve the roster. 

I think it could go either way, at this point, and I wouldn't be married to either path were I in the Mavs' shoes. 

I definitely agree he has more improving to do before he's a winning, high-minute role player on a great team, but I'm much more convinced that he's headed in that direction than you seem to be, if I'm understanding you correctly.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I was claiming the time we've had him is a reasonable amount of time for the Mavs to evaluate him

Ya we simply disagree then, which is totally ok.  Like I said, I was out on him too until recently but I'm now very intrigued by his contributions.

[Smitty]

Ya we simply disagree then, which is totally ok.  Like I said, I was out on him too until recently but I'm now very intrigued by his contributions.

It's fascinating that opinions can change with time. I don't know what Green will be in the NBA and anyone that claims to know so, isn't being genuine. I liked the Iggy comp by someone earlier. I'm excited to see his growth for as long as he's a Mav! He certainly gives me Crowder, DFS and now Iggy vibes which is intriguing nonetheless.

[Winter]

but I'm much more convinced that he's headed in that direction than you seem to be, if I'm understanding you correctly

Yes, I think people have slightly mischaracterized my thoughts. Green has some talent. I'm just not wedded to the fact that we need him. I do think this free agency is when we will likely get the most for him.

Someone said they'd be happy with my Garrett Temple analogy. I like Garrett Temple. My point is that you trade Garret Temple (he's been with ELEVEN different teams) because he still has some value. However, Temple has more value as a veteran presence. Green doesn't have that. Green's trade value is potential. The Mavs should have seen him enough to know his potential

[DanSchwartzgan]

Had a night on the town last night, so just now watching the replay (would highly recommend Naturally 7 if they ever come to your town).

Thank goodness we have a bench again.  Bench had a net rating of 6.2 last night (similar to Tuesday's 6.8).  It was particularly impactful at the end of the first and the end of the third (and it was the same group of players both times).  Dallas went on a 15-5 run with Luka, DFS, SD, Maxi and Bertans to end the first.  The same group went on a 14-1 run to end the third.  It might be that it was just Luka was killing it.  He was +18 in Q1 and +11 in Q3 (and -8 in the 4th).  But the most positive segments of those quarters came with Luka and the bench guys.   

Unfortunately, Brunson running the bench unit wasn't good at all.  There was a -5 stretch in the second and a -9 stretch in the 4th when no one could hit a shot.  I'm not sure it is fair to pin the 4th quarter let down on Brunson running the team w/o Luka.  The entire team started the ASB 12 minutes early as NO went on a 19-5 run.  It started with Luka shot hunting for 50 points and then suddenly no Mav could hit a shot (Imagine that.  You barely touch the ball all game and then can't find a rhythm when the game gets tight).

Raise your hand if you saw Dinwiddie getting 30 minutes a night (23 on Tuesday and 30 last night)?  We saw 12 minutes of three PG's last night at +9.  Luka + SD lineups were fantastic.  Brunson + SD lineups without Luka were OK in the first half and a disaster in the 4th quarter as mentioned above.  The pairing was a +1 on Tuesday.  SD's 3 pointer in the fourth was an important play.

Another good game from Maxi.  He was my vote for the Dirkie as I was purposely withholding love from Luka for taking 35 shots.  Plus, Maxi's three at the 5:00 mark in the fourth was a momentum killer for NO.  It was almost a disaster as he hesitated and made a bad pass to Bertans.  Kind of amazed that he hit the shot when DB passed it back to him.  Very little overlap between Powell and Maxi this game.  In the Miami game, Powell was +1 in his minutes against Bam.  In this game he was +3 against JV through three quarters, but was part of that -9 group that started the 4th.  Maxi was similar as the solo big against JV through three quarters and had a -7 stint against JV in the fourth.  The difference in +/- between the two is Maxi drew all of the non-JV minutes, which were a disaster for NO.

I'm looking forward to Bullock's return.  Green has played good D the last two games (and made some nice plays against Miami), but just doesn't have the gravity Bullock has spreading the floor.  It looks like we are going to run two of the PG's at almost all times and one of the centers.  That leaves DFS, Bertans, Bullock and Green to share the SF/PF minutes (and not all of them since we will see some 3-PG lineups).  It will be interesting to see how Kidd keeps everyone happy AND continues to give Green some developmental minutes.  I thought SD looked MUCH more comfortable last night.  I sure hope our other two guards taking 60% of our shots isn't going to become a thing.  SD seems to be trying to fit in, but that is only going to last so long.  Eventually he's going to want and deserve a bigger role.  

Luka was magical for three quarters last night, but Luka one on five possessions with no passes aren't going to cut it against better teams.  The job needs to be getting the new guys comfortable and taking over when necessary.  Not taking 43% of the teams total shots and wondering why everyone is ice cold when he sits.  I know, I'm criticizing the hero of the game who just scored 49 highly efficient points.  But, I really didn't like the version of Luka who takes this many shots.  This is the third time in February that he's taken 30+ and the prior two were losses to OKC and LAC.  We are 12-4 when he takes fewer than 20 shots.  We are 12-1 when he gets 11 or more assists.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I'd argue that he has shown enough already, earning a regular rotation spot during the best stretch of play the team has displayed in 3-4 seasons and actually contributing to that success, to create a situation wherein his value could also be that he's trusted to shoulder a bigger load in the near future (next season, even, possibly) when players ahead of him are traded to improve the roster. 

I think there is more upside to be achieved.  The dude is 21 and the team routinely plays VERY well when he is in the game (despite his lack of an outside shot).  

His value in a trade is minimal at this point, but the fact that he could allow you to move on from a higher priced guy (or use the higher priced guy in a deal that upgrades a position) is his highest and best use IMHO.

[Kammrath]

I really didn't like the version of Luka who takes this many shots.

So much this.

I like Luka taking under 20 shots. I think that is better for everyone in most circumstances.

[dirkfansince1998]

It's fascinating that opinions can change with time. I don't know what Green will be in the NBA and anyone that claims to know so, isn't being genuine. I liked the Iggy comp by someone earlier. I'm excited to see his growth for as long as he's a Mav! He certainly gives me Crowder, DFS and now Iggy vibes which is intriguing nonetheless.

I just want them to put in the effort when it comes to young players. Green is improving and already outperforming some of the vets on bigger salaries. Guys that want to trade him right now probably would have traded Dirk after his rookie season. Would have traded Giannis after his rookie season.

[dirkfansince1998]

So much this.

I like Luka taking under 20 shots. I think that is better for everyone in most circumstances.

It´s not always a choice. After the Mavs hot shooting start the Pelicans stayed home on shooters and played basic drop defense against the pick and roll. Leading to open floaters and 3s against a big that isn´t willing to step out of the paint.

[Kammrath]

It´s not always a choice. After the Mavs hot shooting start the Pelicans stayed home on shooters and played basic drop defense against the pick and roll. Leading to open floaters and 3s against a big that isn´t willing to step out of the paint.

It seems like you and I have this back and forth regularly.

I agree with you for the most part. Sometimes a team gives Luka looks where him shooting is the best thing for the team. 

BUT I think I could easily trim Luka's shot count by 10 last night (if not more). Yes, he made a lot of those, but I don't think he NEEDED to take them and I also feel like he didn't really probe getting anyone else a shot. 

If no one else touches the ball on O and Luka gets a LAYUP, I am fine with that. But if no one else touches the ball and he shoots a three? Hell no.

[KillerLeft]

If no one else touches the ball on O and Luka gets a LAYUP, I am fine with that. But if no one else touches the ball and he shoots a three? Hell no.

I'm with you in general spirit on this, but...he is the PG. 

So, if the first action starts with a screen and the defense is going under to the point where they can't even run the action...I want him to shoot in that situation, personally. It's the correct play. 

I would agree with the idea that at times he's guilty of predetermining that he should work to create a 3 for himself without anyone touching the ball, and I agree that we can all do with much less of that. None, ideally.

[SwisherPrice]

Josh Green is good, I'm enjoying what we're getting out of him from what you can consider to be his rookie season. Do people expect him to take over and launch up a ton of shots? That's not his role on the offense this year - even last night, he is mainly just asked to stand in the corner on offense while Luka/Brunson operate the offense.

He is still raw and has plenty of room to grow but at age 21, the potential is there. He just doesn't have as many opportunities to be more than a reserve role player right now because he plays the same positions as the best players on the team (Luka, Brunson, THJ, Bullock). The best you can hope for is for him to fill up the stat sheet in different ways, which is what he's been doing. 

He has been a key member of the rotation and they've been winning since he became a mainstay - the team is 17-6 when he plays 15+ minutes and 11-4 when he plays 20+ (including a couple of last-second losses)

[dirkfansince1998]

We just had the best example for a team that is taking away Luka´s playmaking and dares him to score. The Clippers. At this point it is not a suprise when Luka scores 40+ against them. It is a part of the scheme. Luka is making the "right" play when he takes advantage of Zubac but the Mavs offense isn´t getting into any kind of flow.
That´s where I agree with @"Kammrath". The offense looks a lot better when Luka is more of playmaker but other teams know that as well. I wouldn´t be suprised if they start to copy the Clippers approach. It will be interesting to see if the Mavs have  a counter and find a way to reduce Luka´s on ball load. Maybe use him as the ball screener for Brunson or Dinwinddie. A little bit like the Cavs two-man game with LeBron/Irving.

[Fuerza1]

I've said it many times that the Russell Westbrook fraudulent "MVP" season killed the NBA in some ways. So much more stat hunting and hyping up meaningless triple doubles. There was a stat on reddit where LeBron had like 3-4 times the amount of triple doubles in the last 5+ years than he did in the previous 15. It's ridiculous.

Besides that, I felt like the 4Q was also a "Cancun on 3" type of deal. I guess it's human nature. At least they held on and can put it behind them. Much needed rest, next few games look tough!

[Chicagojk]

Luka was magical for three quarters last night, but Luka one on five possessions with no passes aren't going to cut it against better teams.  The job needs to be getting the new guys comfortable and taking over when necessary.  Not taking 43% of the teams total shots and wondering why everyone is ice cold when he sits.  I know, I'm criticizing the hero of the game who just scored 49 highly efficient points.  But, I really didn't like the version of Luka who takes this many shots.  This is the third time in February that he's taken 30+ and the prior two were losses to OKC and LAC.  We are 12-4 when he takes fewer than 20 shots.  We are 12-1 when he gets 11 or more assists.

Luka was magical the first three quarters but even so I still cringe with the no pass possessions.   I thought at times last night, the ball movement was great.    But it sort of goes back to no passing when Luka gets into a groove.   

I have been thinking lately if Luka plays this way because it gives us the best chance to win or does he play this way because that is how he wants to play (IE Harden ball).   If it is the second, it makes you wonder what second star will want to come here and what type of player is the best fit in that role?   

I think Jalen has really fit in well playing next to Luka when he dominates the ball.  Others may have a lot of trouble doing this...especially if they are use to having the ball.   

With KP no longer here there is really nothing that takes the ball off of Luka hands.    Is this the way he wants to play or is it something that can be managed a little bit better.   Keeping the benefits of Luka being Luka but also being able to attack teams in different ways.

[cow]

Re: Josh

For once the Mavs draft the athletic guy with upside so it was always expected that he'd have a longer ramp up.  Carlisle gives him no burn his rookie season which lengthens that ramp.  I'm not even sure I'd give credit to Kidd for what Green has shown this season as Josh didn't show a lot of flashes before Jason Garrett Jr. played him extended minutes and to be fair on that assessment, he might not have had a choice due to much of the roster being out.  We'd feel better if this was Josh's rookie season for sure, but I think there is enough there to be encouraged.  And I'd completely written him off after his national team didn't play him in the Olympics.

+Handles the ball pretty well.
+Vision
+Passing
+More assertive in taking shots
+Hustle
-Needs to pull the trigger when wide open more often
-Needs to work on his outside shooting
-Needs to figure out how to use his athleticism more effectively on defense.   While I like his energy, he needs to be more cerebral.  He gets too close to offensive players airspace and gets a lot of silly fouls.  Can also over pursue on close outs which lead to easy blow by.  Even when he does have good positioning on an offensive player, I'm not sure how much his contests bother them.

[KillerLeft]

-Needs to figure out how to use his athleticism more effectively on defense.   While I like his energy, he needs to be more cerebral.  He gets too close to offensive players airspace and gets a lot of silly fouls.  Can also over pursue on close outs which lead to easy blow by.  Even when he does have good positioning on an offensive player, I'm not sure how much his contests bother them.

I agree with this, and I think a large part of this particular issue is that he's clearly not accustomed to how physical things get in the NBA. When things do get physical, he doesn't seem to understand (yet) what will get whistled and what won't.

[cow]

I agree with this, and I think a large part of this particular issue is that he's clearly not accustomed to how physical things get in the NBA. When things do get physical, he doesn't seem to understand (yet) what will get whistled and what won't.

Bingo.  He also needs to realize that he will get no benefit of the doubt from refs as he hasn't established anything in the league.  I do think he'll figure this all out though.  His progress this season is a little mind blowing.

[Winter]

I do think he'll figure this all out though

Well that's the difference between how I feel and how others feel.

Right now, Sterling Brown has a better stat line that Green, but Sterling Brown is slightly cheaper than Green. On top of that, Green is due a raise next season. 

I wouldn't keep either one at this point (if I could trade them), but most people here believe Green will be a better player. I think Green will be a better player too, but will probably not have much better stats next year than Sterling Brown does now - so my upside is marginal.

Clearly, people are more patient than me.

[Smitty]

Well that's the difference between how I feel and how others feel.

Right now, Sterling Brown has a better stat line that Green, but Sterling Brown is slightly cheaper. On top of that, Green is due a raise next season. 

I wouldn't keep either one at this point (if I could trade them), but most people here believe Green will be a better player. I think Green will be a better player too, but will probably not have much better stats next year than Sterling Brown does now - so my upside is marginal.

Clearly, people are more patient than me.

My only suggestion, FWIW, is don’t get so caught up in the stats/numbers. Green is 21 in basically his first year. He went from being mostly unknown/unplayable last year depending on who you ask - to being a rotational player for a playoff team. The improvement is obvious. Can he make the same jump next year, the next… time will tell. As for money… what Green makes next year is almost meaningless as Cuban will be paying the tax bill. Green making 500K or 10M next year has no impact on the Mavs, only Cubans bank account.