John Collins...Our Third Star

[DanSchwartzgan]

 
Norman Powell is a catch and shoot guy, I rather retain THJ for that role. Yes, Norman Powell is better than THJ defensively but I would like someone who can handle the ball and play make and not just shoot. 

If the choice is between spending $17mm-$18mm to keep Hardaway, I think the team would be better off spending $20mm for one year younger Powell?  The fact that Portland has his Bird rights is meaningless unless we are talking about a max contract.  

At some point, you are just looking for improving weaknesses without giving up strengths.  Powell is more than a catch and shoot guy.  He is also a good shooter as the ball handler in the PnR.  When compared to THJ, he's better in ISO, as a Finisher as a Defender and is more efficient across the board.  Hitting 50% of his corner 3's vs. THJ's .388 would be huge.

THJ's biggest contribution is his 3 point shooting, but Powell is just as good if not better at most types of 3 point shots.  I'm not sure what you give up going from Hardaway to Powell, but I know what you pick up.

[mvossman]

If the choice is between spending $17mm-$18mm to keep Hardaway, I think the team would be better off spending $20mm for one year younger Powell?  The fact that Portland has his Bird rights is meaningless unless we are talking about a max contract.  

At some point, you are just looking for improving weaknesses without giving up strengths.  Powell is more than a catch and shoot guy.  He is also a good shooter as the ball handler in the PnR.  When compared to THJ, he's better in ISO, as a Finisher as a Defender and is more efficient across the board.  Hitting 50% of his corner 3's vs. THJ's .388 would be huge.

THJ's biggest contribution is his 3 point shooting, but Powell is just as good if not better at most types of 3 point shots.  I'm not sure what you give up going from Hardaway to Powell, but I know what you pick up.

I agree with all of this, and would definitely rather have Powell (who I am much more confident penciling in the starting rotation due to defense).  However, the fact that Portland has his bird rights means they can sign him for significantly more over his current salary and over the cap, right?  Given that they are over the cap, and have no way to replace him if he walks, it seems like they are going to have a stronger incentive to keep him than we are to get him, right?  I would think that is relevant from the standpoint that we would likely have to pay higher than market value to pry him away.

[StepBackJay]

I agree with all of this, and would definitely rather have Powell (who I am much more confident penciling in the starting rotation due to defense).  However, the fact that Portland has his bird rights means they can sign him for significantly more over his current salary and over the cap, right?  Given that they are over the cap, and have no way to replace him if he walks, it seems like they are going to have a stronger incentive to keep him than we are to get him, right?  I would think that is relevant from the standpoint that we would likely have to pay higher than market value to pry him away.

Right exactly. So here the incumbent has a strong advantage. As you say they can't replace him, they gave up an asset to get him, they have bird rights. Portland is not going to lose Powell to money. They are also a good team in the playoffs every year and Powell has a starting job. So to steal him away you really need a lot of things to go your way. I just don't see it. Also Powell is a good scorer but is sort of redundant with Brunson.

[mvossman]

Right exactly. So here the incumbent has a strong advantage. As you say they can't replace him, they gave up an asset to get him, they have bird rights. Portland is not going to lose Powell to money. They are also a good team in the playoffs every year and Powell has a starting job. So to steal him away you really need a lot of things to go your way. I just don't see it. Also Powell is a good scorer but is sort of redundant with Brunson.

You had me until that last sentence.  Powell is a much better player than Brunson (mostly due to defense).  If Brunson could play defense like Powell, he would be starting and playing 30+ minutes a game.

[IamDougieFresh]

Powell is a much better player than Brunson (mostly due to defense).

I just spit my fookin protein shake on my monitor.

[IamDougieFresh]

I just spit my fookin protein shake on my monitor.

Wait you guys are talking about Norman Powell. You guys gotta be more specific I don't have time to read every post I missed XD.

[mvossman]

Wait you guys are talking about Norman Powell. You guys gotta be more specific I don't have time to read every post I missed XD.

Ha!  Another reason not to go after Norman other than having to overpay to pry him away.  It would be a pain in the ass to have two Powells on the team.

[dirkfansince1998]

THJ has one big advantage. He is already in Dallas and it looks like he wants to stay. We know that he is a fit on and off the court. Powell is the better player but as others already mentioned we don´t know if he is available or interested. Not to mention that he hasn´t looked as good since he joined the Blazers.

[ItsGoTime]

THJ has one big advantage. He is already in Dallas and it looks like he wants to stay. We know that he is a fit on and off the court. Powell is the better player but as others already mentioned we don´t know if he is available or interested. Not to mention that he hasn´t looked as good since he joined the Blazers.

Is THJ worth $20M though?

[StepBackJay]

You had me until that last sentence.  Powell is a much better player than Brunson (mostly due to defense).  If Brunson could play defense like Powell, he would be starting and playing 30+ minutes a game.

I didn't know Powell was a good defensive player? I just know he can light it up. I haven't watched enough to have an opinion on defense. I like Powell, I just don't think he's leaving Portland.

[StepBackJay]

Is THJ worth $20M though?

Jeez I hope its not that much but can't rule it out that he would get that much.

[Kammrath]

Is THJ worth $20M though?

NO

[Scott41theMavs]

NO

Co-sign!!!

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I didn't know Powell was a good defensive player? I just know he can light it up. I haven't watched enough to have an opinion on defense. I like Powell, I just don't think he's leaving Portland.

He'll leave if the carrot is big enough.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Just so I’m clear, are the people telling me that Dallas can’t possibly get UFA Powell from Portland, the same or different than the ones who said Denver would never “let” UFA Grant go because they invested that first round pick in him?

Not trying to be an ass (OK, maybe a little bit), but I honestly don’t recall who it was that said that every time Grant’s name came up.

[chaparral]

Just so I’m clear, are the people telling me that Dallas can’t possibly get UFA Powell from Portland, the same or different than the ones who said Denver would never “let” UFA Grant go because they invested that first round pick in him?

Not trying to be an ass (OK, maybe a little bit), but I honestly don’t recall who it was that said that every time Grant’s name came up.

If the Mavs can get N. Powell at SG that would mean they could do your idea of JRich for T. Young.  

Porzingis / D. Powell
Young / Kleber
DFS / RMLE
N. Powell / Green
Doncic / Brunson

[StepBackJay]

Just so I’m clear, are the people telling me that Dallas can’t possibly get UFA Powell from Portland, the same or different than the ones who said Denver would never “let” UFA Grant go because they invested that first round pick in him?

Not trying to be an ass (OK, maybe a little bit), but I honestly don’t recall who it was that said that every time Grant’s name came up.

Right so anything is possible, I just don't see it. For Grant, he wanted a bigger role in the offense which he could get in Detroit. For Powell he's not going to really get anything different in Dallas than he would get in Portland (money, role, etc.). So it would really be him just deciding he wants to play in Dallas instead of Portland. The only thing I guess I could say is if he thinks he will get more touches in Dallas than Portland given that Dallas doesn't have another guard outside of Luka in the starting lineup to compete with (assuming THJ is gone).

[StepBackJay]

He'll leave if the carrot is big enough.

It would just be a disaster for Portland, they are going to pay him whatever they have to in order to keep him.

[IamDougieFresh]

Get mad

[DanSchwartzgan]

Right so anything is possible, I just don't see it. For Grant, he wanted a bigger role in the offense which he could get in Detroit. For Powell he's not going to really get anything different in Dallas than he would get in Portland (money, role, etc.). So it would really be him just deciding he wants to play in Dallas instead of Portland. The only thing I guess I could say is if he thinks he will get more touches in Dallas than Portland given that Dallas doesn't have another guard outside of Luka in the starting lineup to compete with (assuming THJ is gone).

I think that is meaningful.  In Portland, he's the third wing in a system where one and two are well entrenched.  Here, he'll get incredibly open looks off the ball, but there will be opportunities to be the PnR ball handler as well.  He's a very good points producer in that situation this season.  I think he would get more of those opportunities here than he does in Portland.  In fact, he'd be our McCollum instead of their Powell.

I guess I've hijacked my own thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwwrHyezALo