2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[omahen]

 You know he is not going to say anything, probably take a few meetings and in all likelihood say at 3 AM a week after free agency begins that he is staying with the Clippers.   But he is a game changer if you could get him.

So here is the question. If you know Kawhi will take 10 days to decide and you have no idea where he will go (but you think you have a chance). Do you go after him or go some safe route with other options?

[mvossman]

I'm probably a charter member of the Holmes fan club (quite possibly the founder).  But, I don't think you can just throw away the extra cap room this creates by assuming Atlanta will take back Maxi.  Maybe.  Or maybe it will take a full on max offer sheet to do this.  Or, maybe Atlanta would prefer a $28mm TPE over Maxi and a $19mm TPE.  And as you mention, there are players and combos of players that are precluded by spending extra on FA Holmes (who you don't control) vs. grabbing a sure thing while dealing with SA anyway.  Plus, that financial difference could hinder us in future years in terms of the apron and trying to sign and trade for a player.

Almost every traditional center in the league gets run off the floor in the playoffs.  There is some school of thought Utah should have sat Gobert.  But, there are some guys that you just can't stop without a bigger body somewhere on your roster.  I think LAC gets this right paying $7mm to Zubac.  The article attached is probably a little over the top in its praise for its home town boy.  While true that Holmes is better on the perimeter (but not great), Poeltl is the better interior defender.

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2021/3/2...all-impact

A couple of things.

To be clear, I don't really think there is much chance of the Atlanta trade happening at this point.  I would be surprised if it does not include Maxi but if not, and we need that cap space, it would be easy to dump Maxi for a pick.

So the Zubac/Poeltl comparison makes a lot of sense.  The next question would be who is our small ball center(s)?  Do we need to get a 4 to play that roll?  I think Maxi would be a great small ball center, but we have seen that he is better with limited minutes.  Can Powell play that roll (I'm not a fan)? Do we need to get another 4 that can play that roll?  In the future maybe Bey can, but I think he has a way to go.  Do we try to sign Batum?

Regardless, I think DeRozan is our most likely big signing, so lets pencil him in with Poeltl.  At that point you have close to 30 mil to spend.  I suppose there are several candidates at roughly MLE (or less) for another rotational 4 that can play center such as Batum, Ibaka, Milsap, Theis? (not sure if mobile enough).  That still gets you close to 20 for your 3&D point of attack defender.

I guess it all comes down to is Holmes versatile enough to not get run off the court for 5 out, but hold his own to some degree against the dominate big men.  Maybe a committee makes more sense if not.

[mvossman]

So here is the question. If you know Kawhi will take 10 days to decide and you have no idea where he will go (but you think you have a chance). Do you go after him or go some safe route with other options?

What a total asswhip that would be.  It would be complete plan powder shit show.  You tamper your ass off and if you don't get a commitment, then you pull the trigger on something you do get a commitment on.  We can't have another offseason like we did two years ago.  That would be total disaster.

[omahen]

You tamper your ass off and if you don't get a commitment, then you pull the trigger on something you do get a commitment on.  We can't have another offseason like we did two years ago.  That would be total disaster.

But history suggests top stars take time to decide. If only to make a scene. So I guess you are with the safe but lower quality way.

[mvossman]

Maxi, when healthy, is our best big. Best defender. Best 3 point shooter. Don't want to see the Mavs trade him as a throw-in in a deal or trade him at a discount. His contract is team-friendly, I believe. Don't understand all the trade Maxi suggestions.

Part of the reason is that he is a very versatile rotational player that fits a lot of situations and we are very limited on tradeable assets.

The other part is that he has underperformed in a small sample of two playoff series (one in which he was playing hurt) so folks are down on him.  He does have his limitations.  His minutes needs to be managed or he wears down, and his offensive game is limited.  I would prefer to keep him, but if it is a trade someone like Collins, you have to pull that trigger.

[mvossman]

But history suggests top stars take time to decide. If only to make a scene. So I guess you are with the safe but lower quality way.

That's my thought.  He would make us instant contenders, but he will likely sign a 1+1, has moved teams almost every year if he does this, and has not made it to the finals two years in a row on a very good Clippers team.  If he bails on you in a year, we will have very little cap space to replace him with due to Luka extension.

I feel like you have to pull that trigger if you know you got him, but if its this wait and see bullshit you need to move on.

[ItsGoTime]

But history suggests top stars take time to decide. If only to make a scene. So I guess you are with the safe but lower quality way.

In the past, I’ve been on the “no more superstars search” train. We seemingly assembled a crew that should be better at that, and I’m sure MC is still of the opinion that he will only go over the cap after he has his superstars in place (pretty sure we’ve either heard this from him, or we’ve tea leaf’d it).


I’ll be wait and see on their approach with a clean slate, but a shorter leash.

[Okstate819]

That's my thought.  He would make us instant contenders, but he will likely sign a 1+1, has moved teams almost every year if he does this, and has not made it to the finals two years in a row on a very good Clippers team.  If he bails on you in a year, we will have very little cap space to replace him with due to Luka extension.

I feel like you have to pull that trigger if you know you got him, but if its this wait and see bullshit you need to move on.

This is where I think the benefit of Nico really comes through whether we get Kawhi or not. 

If Kawhi and Nico really do have a good relationship, I don't see Kawhi dragging it out just to mess with the Mavs when he knows they have no shot.

[Tyler]

Mavs, don't mess with us if you don't mean it

https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/stat...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fdallas-mavericks

Live look at Mavs HQ:



I'm here for the dream. But I totally agree that Dallas can't afford to sit on the sidelines while every FA (including Kawhi and THJ) signs elsewhere. We've already been burned once waiting on Kawhi, and we weren't even in the mix for him personally. We need a more strategic approach.

One thing that gives me hope is how players who go overboard with the grand tour for their first big free agency often tone it down for ones after that. I also wonder if a lot of the drama with the last Kawhi signing was just a stalling tactic for the Paul George trade. So I don't rule out the possibility of Nico and team succeeding where others have failed, especially if (unlike Donnie) he can work the back channel negotiations ahead of time to get a few other key players to join the party and make it a no-brainer. But it's going to be really hard to trust that process as a Mavs fan until it finally pays off for once.

But damn -- that powder does look really tempting.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Maxi, when healthy, is our best big. Best defender. Best 3 point shooter. Don't want to see the Mavs trade him as a throw-in in a deal or trade him at a discount. His contract is team-friendly, I believe. Don't understand all the trade Maxi suggestions.

I love Maxi but not really sure how anyone can watch the last two playoff series and think that Maxi is not expendable.

Bad matchup for him, sure, but also a bad performance in that context (both times).

[IamDougieFresh]

I love Maxi but not really sure how anyone can watch the last two playoff series and think that Maxi is not expendable.

Bad matchup for him, sure, but also a bad performance in that context (both times).

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

k.

[SwisherPrice]

Between Deron, Dwight, Carmelo and all the other big fishes the Mavs have tried to chase over the last 10 years, I see Kawhi as being the LEAST likely to land...and that's saying something because I don't think the Mavs had much of a chance with those other guys either.

He wants to be in LA...he left a great Toronto team that could have easily repeated as champs if he stayed just so he could go back "home" to California. The guy is pretty much treated like a king there and he gets to run the show. Lue might be the best coach in the league. I don't see why he would give that up to sign anywhere else...much less Dallas.

[IamDougieFresh]

k.

Don't get sand in your cheeks chief

[Mavs2021]

I don´t buy this at all. Durant to Warriors, Kawhi/PG13 to Clippers, LeBron/Wade/Bosh to Miami, Durant/Irving to Brooklyn, maybe even Harden.

That was all decided long before July 1st.

It just took a while to work out all the details and make it official.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Don't get sand in your cheeks chief

haha far from it man, was just hoping for a little more substance to the convo is all.

[cow]

I love Maxi but not really sure how anyone can watch the last two playoff series and think that Maxi is not expendable.

Bad matchup for him, sure, but also a bad performance in that context (both times).

To be fair, he was hurt in the second series.

Everyone is expendable except Luka.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

To be fair, he was hurt in the second series.

Everyone is expendable except Luka.

I hear that but watching that series, he didn't seem to be moving worse or anything.  He actually played better than the first series, he was just still very overmatched.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Another interesting: JRich for Favors and #30 pick (only makes sense if we are moving KP)

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Maxi can't get a shot off in playoffs, proven now 2 years in a row. He is a decent rotation player, nothing more.

He's been hurt.  He was questionable for almost every game.  I dont see how you can make any conclusion based on a dozen game sample size of him playing hurt.

Now if we want to trade him because he can't seem to make it to the playoffs healthy, that's another thing.  (kinda like we did with Curry)  But I have a feeling he's more valuable to us than he would be in a trade.

[KillerLeft]

Regarding Kleber:

He has been hurt pretty much all year, and several people have gone out of their way to point this out. Here's how I think that factors into the conversation:

His defense has NOT been great this season, and I'm not only talking about the Clippers series. 

You can say "that's because he's been banged up" and that's valid. 

Alternatively, you can say "I'm skeptical that he has what it takes to hold up at his top, useful level for an entire season" and that also has validity. 

What we have to stop doing, imo, is saying "Kleber was a great defender this season" because he so, so, so was not. Regardless of what you, personally, might expect from Kleber in the future, based on projections of what a healthy Kleber might look like, the version the Mavs had this past season wasn't really the indispensable difference maker people claim. 

I think there are similar distinctions to make with Porzingis, Richardson and Powell. All of them might be better next year, but I hope the Mavs are being as realistic as possible and at least considering the idea that they won't be.