2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Just a personal hunch, but I think the Mavs are going to go hard after DeRozan as a tone setter going forward for the new front office with Nico.    DeRozan is a Nike client and idolized Kobe, and while he's not a "Superstar" I think he's a legit All Star caliber player and a very respected NBA veteran, and his signing could signal to other players that Dallas is a destination under new ownership.    It also just so happens that Mark said the #1 roster need for the Mavs is another shotmaker/ball handler to take some of the offensive workload off of Luka.

“I’d watched him growing up. I watched Kobe do everything. His shot. His footwork. How he works in the post. Everything growing up was Kobe. I tried to emulate the tough shots he took, his pump fake. There’s nothing you can show me that Kobe has done on a court that I don’t know about or have tried. I practice almost all of them.”

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2020/9/1...-from-nike

Also think going after DeRozan could allow the Mavs to use Brunson as trade ammo before he hits his 2nd contract.

[Branduil]

Yeah I would go after Reggie Jackson 100 times out of 100 before going after Derozan. RJ will be much cheaper even with his playoff performance and a far better fit. Derozan isn't hitting any threes off of Luka passes and our defense with Luka/DDR/THJ/KP would be atrocious.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Yeah I would go after Reggie Jackson 100 times out of 100 before going after Derozan. RJ will be much cheaper even with his playoff performance and a far better fit. Derozan isn't hitting any threes off of Luka passes and our defense with Luka/DDR/THJ/KP would be atrocious.

I think Reggie Jackson is getting ridiculously overrated because of the recency bias of these playoffs.    It's like when draft prospects shoot up the boards based on their  NCAA Tournament on some high profile televised games  and you don't look at the entire body of evidence.

[Branduil]

I think Reggie Jackson is getting ridiculously overrated because of the recency bias of these playoffs.    It's like when draft prospects shoot up the boards based on their  NCAA Tournament on some high profile televised games  and you don't look at the entire body of evidence.

Maybe but you know what's not overrated? Being able to shoot and play defense. RJ can do both and DDR... struggles, to be polite.

[omahen]

Just a personal hunch, but I think the Mavs are going to go hard after DeRozan

After first moves it is very likely Mavs plan is to go after a star signing. I would think DeRozan is what qualifies as star. Now the question is what to do with THJ, assuming they are creative enough to get enough cap space to resign him. I guess it might be wise to go after someone more defensively oriented instead. But losing THJ shooting will hurt.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Maybe but you know what's not overrated? Being able to shoot and play defense. RJ can do both and DDR... struggles, to be polite.

If you want to read a lot into this year's playoffs, maybe let's look into the idea that defense isn't nearly as important as offense.

Also, DeRozan's career TS% is higher than Jackson's, despite the fact that he carries his team's offense, opponents gameplan to stop him and throw their best defenders on him and he's often forced to put up shots at the end of the shot clock while Jackson's career role is to go stand wide open somewhere as his teams 3rd or 4th offensive threat.,

[Mavs2021]

I´m not sure whether DeRozan is the target, but in that case, they should go after Lowry too. Get a little collusion happening. Maybe swing a few S&Ts with Toronto and San Antonio.

[Halfnir]

DeRozan is such a star that he had to be traded in his prime by his long-time team to have a shot at a championship. 

With Luka on the ball, we do not need another midrange player, esp. not a career .281 3pt shooter what is not just bad but flat out terrible (.257 last 2 seasons so not improving either) . And not at age 32 looking for a big contract. If he would be a rock-solid lockdown defender i could image it, but that's not the case either.

[Mavs2021]

To me people are looking at Plan Powder the old one-dimensional Mavs way. Lillard allegedly wanted Kidd as the coach in Portland. Lillard, for the first time ever, made demands to the Blazers organization. So maybe this is not about signing DeRozan or THJ now, but rather sign Markkanen, find a 2023 FRP using THJ + Kleber + Brunson, and add 1+2 young players on cheap deals. Now you have re-build your asset pool for Lillard, who is arguably a top 10 player in the league and a level above All-Stars like Lavine and DeRozan.

[Mavs2021]

DeRozan is such a star that he had to be traded in his prime by his long-time team to have a shot at a championship. 

Guess he must have been good enough to be traded for a player that could singlehandedly carry the Raptors to a Championship. Hey let´s call the Clippers, maybe they want to trade Kawhi for THJ.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

DeRozan is such a star that he had to be traded in his prime by his long-time team to have a shot at a championship. 

Is CP3 a star?   Or is he disqualified because he's been traded so many times?

[Halfnir]

One of the first steps, I'd try to get our 2023 1st rounder back from NY for Brunson. If i understand his contract correctly, there's no way to keep him out of free agency after coming season. So unless we are 100% locked into paying whatever it takes to keep him, we should cash in on his value now. 

I like what he offers as a player on offence, but i don't think it's irreplaceable.

[dirkfansince1998]

Is CP3 a star?   Or is he disqualified because he's been traded so many times?

Did any of the CP3 teams improve after he left. Any of them got worse when arrived? CP3 is easily a top 10 PG of all time. DeRozan peaked as a borderline allstar. Only one season in his entire career with positive on/off impact.

[Halfnir]

Guess he must have been good enough to be traded for a player that could singlehandedly carry the Raptors to a Championship. Hey let´s call the Clippers, maybe they want to trade Kawhi for THJ.

Problem might be we do not have a young lottery pick plus a FRP to attach and Kawhi is not coming of a injury riddled season and basicly forcing his way out of LAC.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Did any of the CP3 teams improve after he left. Any of them got worse when arrived? CP3 is easily a top 10 PG of all time. DeRozan peaked as a borderline allstar. Only one season in his entire career with positive on/off impact.

Im not even trying to asset DeRozan is as good as CP3, but the assertion that you can't be a "star" because you were traded is nonsensical to me when we have example after example after example of it happening.   Our new Head Coach is a first Ballot Hall of Fame player who was traded quite a number of times.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I think Reggie Jackson is getting ridiculously overrated because of the recency bias of these playoffs.    It's like when draft prospects shoot up the boards based on their  NCAA Tournament on some high profile televised games  and you don't look at the entire body of evidence.

But maybe this is not a fluke. He spent most of his 5 seasons in Detroit with a myriad of injuries.  He's finally healthy.  Some team is going to give him a bag regardless just based on his playoff performance.

[Branduil]

If you want to read a lot into this year's playoffs, maybe let's look into the idea that defense isn't nearly as important as offense.

Also, DeRozan's career TS% is higher than Jackson's, despite the fact that he carries his team's offense, opponents gameplan to stop him and throw their best defenders on him and he's often forced to put up shots at the end of the shot clock while Jackson's career role is to go stand wide open somewhere as his teams 3rd or 4th offensive threat.,

Okay but what is Derozan going to do during the 90% of the time where Luka has the ball? If he stands in the corner his man will just double Luka every time.

[Branduil]

But maybe this is not a fluke. He spent most of his 5 seasons in Detroit with a myriad of injuries.  He's finally healthy.  Some team is going to give him a bag regardless just based on his playoff performance.

Also, he's shot at least 37% from three for the last 3 seasons, it's not a fluke that he's shooting well when left open.

Maybe he won't be this good again, but I'd still rather bet on someone who's actually playing well this postseason instead of weird ideas like "we should trade for the guy who just had one of the worst postseasons of all time and can't shoot free throws!"

[Halfnir]

Im not even trying to asset DeRozan is as good as CP3, but the assertion that you can't be a "star" because you were traded is nonsensical to me when we have example after example after example of it happening.   Our new Head Coach is a first Ballot Hall of Fame player who was traded quite a number of times.

I have no problem labeling DeRozan as a (maybe former) star. And i'm not saying he or anyone else is not a star BECAUSE he got traded. I just don't see him as a star that helps a team to win as the best or second best player on the team (which he was in Toronto together with Lowry). And esp. not today and not with the fit with Luka.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

I have no problem labeling DeRozan as a (maybe former) star. And i'm not saying he or anyone else is not a star BECAUSE he got traded. I just don't see him as a star that helps a team to win as the best or second best player on the team (which he was in Toronto together with Lowry). And esp. not today and not with the fit with Luka.

I dunno, I see several teams in the Conference Finals now with 1 superstar and some "borderline All Stars".   

And also I don't hold it against Lowry that the Raptors "got better" when they traded him, considering they traded him for Top 5 player.    I fully agree that DeRozan isn't as good as Kawhi.   I'd love for the Mavs to get ahold of a legit Top 5 player en lieu of DeRozan.  If you know of a way to get a Kawhi caliber player, I'm all ears.    Please share your ideas.    But the idea that the Raptors sucked with DeRozan as one of their feature players is a little hard for me to swallow.  They won ~50+ games every year and then ran into to LeBron/Kyrie/Love in the Eastern Conference Finals two years in a row.   There's no shame in that.

Also, speaking of LeBron and Kyrie Championship Winning Cavs, the idea that you can only have one player who handles the ball to have an effective offense like a weird thing to say.