NEWS: RC out | Kidd hired as head coach & assembling staff

[KillerLeft]

Ujiri as the GM and Mosley as the HC is my hope as well.   And I won't go so far as to say that it's likely, but I do think it's entirely possible.

You bring up a good point about Cuban being an entreprenuer and that mindset.  To me the strength and the weakness of the Mavs has been the belief that they can just outsmart everyone because everyone else is just dumber than they are.

I agree with every word of the above. Well put. And, IF an Ujiri (or anyone serious, really) is brought in as GM, and then HE and Cuban BOTH think Mosely is the right guy for head coach, I'll be good with it. 

As for the Carlisle stuff, I do agree that there was some overconfidence in Carlisle's ability to overcome ANY problem with his superior basketball mind, but I still think the "Carlisle is a dick" angle is significantly overblown. 

I do agree that people skills are part of what's needed to be successful in the NBA, or in anything, really.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

I said there were similarities.  Its just at a different level.  Jerry is already the proclaimed GM, so his meddling is at the coach level.  Cuban is more of a meddler with the GM (although not sure Carlisle was immune to the meddling).  The Mavs totally had a Jason Garrett.  His name is Donnie.  Somebody Cuban likes and is comfortable with, but can override at will (apparently as long as he is not listening to a gambler instead).  I think most peoples fear is that Cuban is going to make a comfort hire at the GM level (Finley) so he can continue to meddle in the GM affairs.  I will be (very pleasantly) surprised if Cuban goes outside the org to get a GM, and especially a high profile one.

Considering Cuban has really only made 3 or 4 major hirings in 20 years (Jerry mades 3-4 HC changes in a decade alone), including Carlisle who came from outside the organzation, if he does hire a GM outside the organization I hope this cliche will finally die.

[Fuerza1]

Apologies if this has been posted. Rick Carlisle is not a strong candidate to be next Boston Celtics HC. Seems like they rather take the chance on a newbie than "top 3 NBA elite coach" Carlisle. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...ham-in-mix

[hakeemfaan]

Really? How do you know? Now I gotta figure out who he is!

We have gone through the old board and this rapidly. So I might be mixing things up. However at one point Sturm was on one of the boards.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Apologies if this has been posted. Rick Carlisle is not a strong candidate to be next Boston Celtics HC. Seems like they rather take the chance on a newbie than "top 3 NBA elite coach" Carlisle. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...ham-in-mix

McMahon said the same thing on The Hardline yesterday.  I think he's angling for the Milwaukee job if Bud gets fired, with Indiana as a fallback.

[TXBamanut]

Apologies if this has been posted. Rick Carlisle is not a strong candidate to be next Boston Celtics HC. Seems like they rather take the chance on a newbie than "top 3 NBA elite coach" Carlisle. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...ham-in-mix

Talk about stupidity....I can't believe the Celtics didn't immediately pop in my head.  lol  Brain....fart.

I was kind of hoping that Billups would be in contention here.

[hakeemfaan]

Apologies if this has been posted. Rick Carlisle is not a strong candidate to be next Boston Celtics HC. Seems like they rather take the chance on a newbie than "top 3 NBA elite coach" Carlisle. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...ham-in-mix

You wonder how many chances coaches like RC and SVG will get. As the said on the TNT post game show, the new gen doesnt care about a no nonsense strict coach. Players realize they are the product and are in control.  Nets stars picked their own HC.

[DallasBasketball]

Apologies if this has been posted. Rick Carlisle is not a strong candidate to be next Boston Celtics HC. Seems like they rather take the chance on a newbie than "top 3 NBA elite coach" Carlisle. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...ham-in-mix

That’s an interesting one. They are in the position of having just fired/promoted the younger version of Carlisle they already had.

[KillerLeft]

Rick Carlisle is not a strong candidate to be next Boston Celtics HC.

Yeah, I wouldn't hire him if I were Stevens, either. The GM should be the strongest, most experienced person in the pyramid. Like Riley. 

"Riley's" hire "Spoelstra's" but if a Spoelstra is a GM, a Riley is the last person he should hire.

[Mavs2021]

I agree with every word of the above. Well put. And, IF an Ujiri (or anyone serious, really) is brought in as GM, and then HE and Cuban BOTH think Mosely is the right guy for head coach, I'll be good with it. 

As for the Carlisle stuff, I do agree that there was some overconfidence in Carlisle's ability to overcome ANY problem with his superior basketball mind, but I still think the "Carlisle is a dick" angle is significantly overblown. 

I do agree that people skills are part of what's needed to be successful in the NBA, or in anything, really.

I think it was underplayed for years and now everybody is coming out with these stories. Let´s assume McMahon´s account of his treatment of Salah Mejri is accurate. I think in a corporate environment, you pretty much get fired in Carlisle´s position, if you berated an employee for 12 months, because he is in a weak position to defend himself (15th man, minimum salary, foreigner with limited language skills) and you simply need a punching bag for your anger management problems. You´d probably have a lawsuit at your hands as the company, too.

Also people always get freaked out that Carlisle is the coaching GOAT, top three, irreplaceable. Okay say that is so.

Why has he not won a play-off series in 10 years?

Right, cause he was not supposed to, because he was NOT FAVOURED.

Wouldn´t one trait of being the coaching GOAT be to overcome the odds occasionally, like at least once in 10 years?

Miami made the NBA finals last year? How many series were they favoured to win? They were the 5th seed. Beat the 4th, 1st and 3rd seed.

[mvossman]

Considering Cuban has really only made 3 or 4 major hirings in 20 years (Jerry mades 3-4 HC changes in a decade alone), including Carlisle who came from outside the organzation, if he does hire a GM outside the organization I hope this cliche will finally die.

I hope so too, but I fear that it is going to be strengthened instead.

[Kammrath]

I think the Cuban/Jerry comparison is pretty lazy, honestly.   I mean .. they're two high profile owners in the same city.    Jerry fired Jimmy Johnson because he couldn't stand it that someone else was getting any credit for winning a Championship besides him.     Not only did Mark not fire Donnie/Rick after winning a Championship, he was so grateful to them that he stuck by them a decade of losing basketball and debacle after debacle out of a sense of loyalty and not wanting to make a change.    Cuban just hasn't made that many changes to his head coach or General Manager over the last 20+ years, but the few times he does he goes out and finds the best guy avaiable.  He didn't have any familiarity with Carlisle, but he went out and hired him because he was the most respected candidate out there.    There has been some revisionist history that Avery was some unqualified bum that only got the job out of familiarity with Cuban, but that's not true at all.  Avery was regarded as the best up and coming assistant coach in the league at the time of the hiring.   He was personally groomed by Pop and picked by Nellie to be his successor.      He  replaced Nellie because that was always the plan.   Nellie had Avery running his practices and coaching for him when he went out with a shoulder surgery.    So I don't really know where this attitude comes from that Mark will only hire his cronies from within.  The Mavs have never had a Jason Garrett or Dave Campo, much less a Stephen Jones.   And while Cynthia Marhsall didn't stick around for the long haul, I will definitely say there is no way Jerry Jones hires Cynthia Marhsall .. or any other outsider ... to run his business operations.

Just want to again say thank you for all your thoughtful posts over the last few days. You are bringing it. Great stuff.

[mavsluvr]

Apologies if this has been posted. Rick Carlisle is not a strong candidate to be next Boston Celtics HC. Seems like they rather take the chance on a newbie than "top 3 NBA elite coach" Carlisle. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...ham-in-mix

The Celtics are interviewing current assistant coaches, for the most part. It seems that they are not targeting more established (i.e., expensive) names.

[KillerLeft]

I think it was underplayed for years and now everybody is coming out with these stories. Let´s assume McMahon´s account of his treatment of Salah Mejri is accurate. I think in a corporate environment, you pretty much get fired in Carlisle´s position, if you berated an employee for 12 months, because he is in a weak position to defend himself (15th man, minimum salary, foreigner with limited language skills) and you simply need a punching bag for your anger management problems. You´d probably have a lawsuit at your hands as the company, too.

Hey, you might be right. 

I tend to value expertise above all. I view knowledge and understanding as the most prescious resources. Those who possess that stuff are under no obligation to pass it on, and those who need it should adjust to better receive it, not the other way around. In that way, I'm a little guilty of the type of thinking that @"HanspardsShowerVoice" articulately claimed has been the biggest weakness of Cuban's Mavs. It might be a little hypocritical of me to agree with that and then think that way myself. I should probably examine that a little. 

But, that's what colors my opinions of Carlisle. I DO think he was the smartest guy in the equation, and that DOES prompt me to think less of some of the rumored negatives. To me, the smartest people are the best. Period.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

If the "worst case scenerio" is we merely go to 4 straight NBA Finals and win 1 Championship Title because we catered too much to our Generational Superstar, I'll take it.   Especially contrasted against what we've gone through the last 10 years under Donnie and Rick.

The East was a joke back then.  Those Cavs teams in today's West have no shot.

---

Apologies if this has been posted. Rick Carlisle is not a strong candidate to be next Boston Celtics HC. Seems like they rather take the chance on a newbie than "top 3 NBA elite coach" Carlisle. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...ham-in-mix

They obviously want a black coach.

On to the IL you go with mak and bartlettbear

[mavsluvr]

I think it was underplayed for years and now everybody is coming out with these stories. Let´s assume McMahon´s account of his treatment of Salah Mejri is accurate. I think in a corporate environment, you pretty much get fired in Carlisle´s position, if you berated an employee for 12 months, because he is in a weak position to defend himself (15th man, minimum salary, foreigner with limited language skills) and you simply need a punching bag for your anger management problems. You´d probably have a lawsuit at your hands as the company, too.

Maybe in an ideal world, it would work that way, but bosses berating their employees is not that uncommon in corporate life, and the corporate entity almost always sides with the person who is more important to the organization (usually, the boss). The berated employee eventually leaves, and life goes on. 


I'm not saying this is a good thing, just not that unusual. Also, we don't know that RC berated Salah for 12 months because he was in a weak position to defend himself, on account of Rick's simply needing a punching bag for his anger management problems. I heard the McMahon interview, and he didn't say that. Just to keep things real.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Also people always get freaked out that Carlisle is the coaching GOAT, top three, irreplaceable. Okay say that is so.

Why has he not won a play-off series in 10 years?

Right, cause he was not supposed to, because he was NOT FAVOURED.

Wouldn´t one trait of being the coaching GOAT be to overcome the odds occasionally, like at least once in 10 years?

Miami made the NBA finals last year? How many series were they favoured to win? They were the 5th seed. Beat the 4th, 1st and 3rd seed.

To further this .. let's take this year for example.

One thing that drove me crazy this year was Rick's refusal to even consider using Boban in the regular season.   I'm not saying play Boban 20 minutes a night, but play him 5-10 minutes at least !!!   He's a useful player with a unique skillset that is okay to use in a limited role.   And someday he could provide a mismatch in a critical game that could come in handy.     But he just made up his mind that he wasn't going to use Boban, and that was that.    So many DNP-CDs night after night after night.   Boban is basically reduced down to team mascot for whatever reason  ... fine.

So here we get into the playoffs and ... wow, a shocking turn of events ... a team goes small against us.   Who could have seen this coming, other than anyone who has paid attention to the direction of basketball for the last 5-10 years?    Okay, so now suddenly it's time to dust off Boban and put him to use in a twin towers lineup with KP in a zone ... except the Mavs haven't practiced this lineup at all in the regular season and it looks just as haphazzard and discombobulated as you would expect.   So I guess a baskeball dullard like me doesn't understand .. was there not any inkling that a team might go small against us and therefore we had no polish and practiced counter attack to go to?   Why was this Twin Towers lineup, which wasnt worth playing 5 minutes against the Minnesota Timberwolves in February,  suddenly became our staple lineup in the playoffs against the Clippers?   So it's like Rick just throws up his hands and says "Don't look at me, I'm just working with what I have.   Look at all the creativity and the the mechanizations I've had to invent !!"   But regardless of the Xs and Os wizardry, he didn't put his players in the best position and it started back in the regular season.

[cow]

Re: Boban.  I'd be curious to see compare his offensive efficiency numbers this season compared to his past, historically great seasons.  My gut says his efficiency had slipped.  If that's due to age or just not getting regular playing time is another debate, I suppose.

[mavsluvr]

To further this .. let's take this year for example.

One thing that drove me crazy this year was Rick's refusal to even consider using Boban in the regular season.   I'm not saying play Boban 20 minutes a night, but play him 5-10 minutes at least !!!   He's a useful player with a unique skillset that is okay to use in a limited role.   And someday he could provide a mismatch in a critical game that could come in handy.     But he just made up his mind that he wasn't going to use Boban, and that was that.    So many DNP-CDs night after night after night.   Boban is basically reduced down to team mascot for whatever reason  ... fine.

So here we get into the playoffs and ... wow, a shocking turn of events ... a team goes small against us.   Who could have seen this coming, other than anyone who has paid attention to the direction of basketball for the last 5-10 years?    Okay, so now suddenly it's time to dust off Boban and put him to use in a twin towers lineup with KP in a zone ... except the Mavs haven't practiced this lineup at all in the regular season and it looks just as haphazzard and discombobulated as you would expect.   So I guess a baskeball dullard like me doesn't understand .. was there not any inkling that a team might go small against us?   Why was this lineup, which wasnt worth playing 5 minutes against the Minnesota Timberwolves in February,  suddenly became our staple lineup in the playoffs against the Clippers?   So it's like Rick just throws up his hands and says "Don't look at me, I'm just working with what I have.   Look at all the creativity and the the mechanizations I've had to invent !!"   But regardless of the Xs and Os wizardry, he didn't put his players in the best position and it started back in the regular season.

I have thought about this quite a bit. 

Gambling Bob prolly told him he couldn't use Boban in the regular season.

[hakeemfaan]

Hey, you might be right. 

I tend to value expertise above all. I view knowledge and understanding as a resource. Those who possess it are under no obligation to pass it on, and those who need it should adjust to better receive it, not the other way around. In that way, I'm a little guilty of the type of thinking that @"HanspardsShowerVoice" articulately claimed has been the biggest weakness of Cuban's Mavs. It might be a little hypocritical of me to agree with that and then think that way myself. I should probably examine that a little. 

But, that's what colors my opinions of Carlisle. I DO think he was the smartest guy in the equation, and that DOES prompt me to think less of some of the rumored negatives. To me, the smartest people are the best. Period.

You can be smart and still be a difficult person to deal with. 

The championship gave him a lot of clout. The fact that almost everyone, including his detractors don’t question his Xs and Os also gave him a lot of clout.  Cuban didn’t retain him all these years just out of loyalty. 

However the new NBA is all about superteams and stars deciding who should be accorded the privilege to coach them. I don’t know how much Xs and Os matter anymore. You can be a terrific coach and atilll not win a title because 3 friends decided to join and brought a coach along for the ride. 

And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand