2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Ya if Mavs did the Harris deal I think you need WCJ + a pick. WCJ is a guy the Mavs liked. Harris is an actually good defender, I would say much better than J Rich or Wright but then offensively he would probably be a mess which means he doesn't help Luka lineups.

[StepBackJay]

Thinking ab it more Harris has too much downside to be considered more than a back-half rotation guy. I would want Ross who is legit bench scorer + WCJ + a pick with Harris being the filler.

[StepBackJay]

It's probably a bad sign that Celtics bloggers aren't even sure they'd want KP for Kemba straight-up:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/6/8/225...-mavericks

[Kammrath]

Celtics bloggers aren't even sure they'd want KP for Kemba straight-up

GOOD I don't want that garbage either! I would literally rather ride with KP than only get Kemba in return.

[KillerLeft]

GOOD I don't want that garbage either! I would literally rather ride with KP than only get Kemba in return.

Your feelings about this have been clear, and I respect your opinion. 

But...when you posted the vegas odds the other day...we all understand the reason Boston was the favorite, right? I'm not trying to debate the validity of such a deal, just pointing out that from a national perspective, dots are being connected. And, while I don't think it's Kemba Walker or bust (there will certainly be no deal with Boston without Walker), I do think that's about the level of return that can be expected if KP gets traded this summer.

[Mavs03]

So New Orleans has 94 million committed in team salary for the 2021-2022 season.  Can they really afford Lonzo Ball keeping in mind that Zion's max extension is looming?  I'll say it again.  Lonzo and Luka would be a dynamic backcourt.  He could be our secondary ball handler, allowing Luka to take a break.  He's a terrific defender and can shoot the 3.  He's everything we wanted from Josh Richardson and he's only 23 years old.  If a team wants to play small...we can go with a lineup of:

Luka (6'7")
Lonzo (6'6")
THJ (6'6")
DFS (6'8")
KP (7'3")

All 5 guys have the ability to shoot 3s.  You have 2 above average defenders in Lonzo and DFS.  Fingers crossed that KP can be a defensive force again with vigorous training in the offseason.  Instead of THJ, you could have Kleber in the lineup who is a much better defender.  At least Dallas has options.

[Scott41theMavs]

Your feelings about this have been clear, and I respect your opinion. 

But...when you posted the vegas odds the other day...we all understand the reason Boston was the favorite, right? I'm not trying to debate the validity of such a deal, just pointing out that from a national perspective, dots are being connected. And, while I don't think it's Kemba Walker or bust (there will certainly be no deal with Boston without Walker), I do think that's about the level of return that can be expected if KP gets traded this summer.

If the only trade in the league available is KP for Kemba this summer, then you hold onto KP, a million times out of a million.

[KillerLeft]

If the only trade in the league available is KP for Kemba this summer, then you hold onto KP, a million times out of a million.

I think I agree...as long as there's a chance KP can back to where he was, physically. 

If you know he's done and you can't get anything you want in exchange for him, then you choose whatever path gets you off of the money the quickest, imo. Hopefully, they can do better than to shave one year off by trading for Walker. But then again, maybe not.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think I agree...as long as there's a chance KP can back to where he was, physically. 

If you know he's done and you can't get anything you want, then you choose whatever path gets you off of the money the quickest, imo.

But if KP ends up that useless, that means that his straight-up value is equal to Kemba's. The only thing you gain from the trade is a single year of cap space.

[KillerLeft]

The only thing you gain from the trade is a single year of cap space.

Yeah, you'd hope they could do better FOR SURE. But, we might all live to wish they'd opted for that year if things don't go well.

[cjeter24]

Since I doubt Dallas would want to trade both Powell and Maxi in that deal, I assume the "filler" would likely be WCS (team option) + Burke. 

Powell/Richardson/WCS/Burke for Kemba? (Normally I'd balk at a 4-for-1 deal, but in the offseason with two motivated teams it's more doable).

Boston could use the big men, for sure. Burke/Richardson could even be useful replacements for Kemba. And there's the salary flexibility you already mentioned.

Dallas would really only miss Powell, and they would get a real playmaker in the deal. If the medical team in Dallas has any inclination that Kemba can be built back up physically, that could be a tempting gamble to get a PG they've obviously liked for a bunch of spare parts. The risk, of course, is that Kemba really is washed and they burned their trade balancing contracts to get him. But it's an interesting thought experiment -- how little would Boston have to ask for in return before you consider taking a flyer?

Yeah the 4 for 1 would be the sticking point... But I'd imagine you could probably find someone to take on any of those guys. They all have their uses.

The ideal is to get something of value from the Celtics. If KP is traded, I'd love to grab Kemba as a high risk high reward guy.

[cjeter24]

I was once high on Lonzo, but I'm off the train.  It isn't his FT%, it is his FT Attempts.  He avoids contact like the plague.  He's not much more than a C&S three point shooter who happens to pass the ball well.  We already move the ball just fine.  As you say, the issue is someone who can create for themselves and others and Lonzo isn't that guy in terms of creating for himself.

I'd argue the biggest problem with the offense is that we don't move the ball just fine...

And Ball is a legit pg who can pass guys into their spots where as Luka isn't that guy yet. Maybe he doesn't have to be. You let Ball run the offense and let Luka attack. 

I wouldn't mind seeing a Harden/Paul dynamic with Luka and the other starting guard. I thought that combo worked quite nicely and I think it would work even better with Luka because I don't think he's intentionally like Harden lol.

[Scott41theMavs]

If KP is traded, I'd love to grab Kemba as a high risk high reward guy.

I think Kemba is a high risk no reward guy myself.

[Chicagojk]

I think it is important to note that just because they don't move KP this year doesn't mean he won't be moved a year from now, 2 years from now, 3 years from now.....   I believe they will explore options this offseason....much more than previous times, but I think KP is back next year.  But don't trust me, my track record is not great.   Here are my quick "want to sees" from several on the team:

KP
-Needs to get more mobile on defense.  Period.   
-Needs to be engaged with the team this offseason and ideally either in Dallas for part of the offseason or in touch with the team constantly on his workout progress.
-The game today is very much three point shooting and scoring at the rim, but for KP I say we zag.   He needs to focus on his midrange game.    He already has a nice turnaround bank shot.   Lets build some secondary moves off that.   Lets work on the elbow (15-17 feet) as well.   Defenders love to crowd him.  I don't like when they do this and he turns around and takes a weak jumper.  Lets develop a few secondary moves that plays against teams trying to be physical with him.   KP will still shoot plenty of threes, but I think the mid range game should be his focus.  KP is not Dirk, but Kp is not the only player who has trouble with defenders getting into you.  

Coach Carlisle
-Get more motion in our offense.   
-one thing I really liked about Phil Jackson is he let his team figure things out on their own and he also built a great bench when Jordan/Pippen/Shaq/Kobe were sitting.  A lot of his bench guys were better as a group than individually.  They played real well together and typically did not sink leads.   Rick, needs to develop a core group to play in the non Luka minutes.   This group needs to be consistent imo and they need to learn how to play through their troubles early in the season. 
-Player development-  I will be disappointed if we move Green or Terry.  I believe both do not have much value now.  I will also be disappointed in Hinton is not with the team in some way.   Having four rookies on the team not playing this past year should be the hardest part of their development.   If you develop these guys, they should start helping on the court in time.  I think Green needs consistent minutes starting next year.   Terry may be further off, but player development needs to be an every day focus.   

Front office
-I was hoping this offseason would be the final piece to a championship contender.   I don't think that happens now.   So, without a star available, find a third best player to 3.5 best player on a good team in free agency or trade....even if the fit is not ideal.   My two choices are Derozan or Holmes...but I will need to do a deeper dive on some other guys.    If you find a 3 or 3.5 if pushes Hardaway(assume he is back), Brunson, DFS, Maxi, etc down a notch.   It may not seem like much, but I believe this could play big dividends.   Again, I wouldn't consider this move the final piece, but I believe it helps rebalance the roster a little more. 
-Freaking find someone in the front office who can sell your vision to players.    Need a closer!

[dirkfansince1998]

Still like the Ball idea. He turned into a good 3&D guard and still has his floor general skill set. Would also add another dimension. Ball is incredible in transition. Mavs aren´t. He can push the pace and throws incredible full court passes.

[KillerLeft]

Ball is incredible in transition. Mavs aren´t. He can push the pace and throws incredible full court passes.

Two outlets who can put pressure on the defense in transition is a luxurious thing to have.

[Omega_Supreme]

Absolutely NO NO NO on Kemba 

If the choice is Kemba or Lonzo I take Lonzo

The Mavs need a scorer but I am not trading a tall guy with knee issues for a short guy with knee issues. 

The Mavs need to bring in a low risk addition if they trade KP even if its not of equal value. 

I am starting to come around to the Miles Turner idea but do not like the thought of taking on Jeremy Lamb to do it but Lamb could be a good trade for another piece given his contract. 

I fully expect Josh Richardson to be apart of a KP trade.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Ya if Mavs did the Harris deal I think you need WCJ + a pick. WCJ is a guy the Mavs liked. Harris is an actually good defender, I would say much better than J Rich or Wright but then offensively he would probably be a mess which means he doesn't help Luka lineups.

It's just a year.  Doesn't really matter.  A year from now Green is Harris...maybe better.  I would rather have expiring Harris than multi-year Ross.

For anyone who likes Holmes, WCJ is Holmes...only younger and cheaper.

---

 
Luka (6'7")
Lonzo (6'6")
THJ (6'6")
DFS (6'8")
WCJ (6'10")

 You have 3 above average defenders in Lonzo, WCJ and DFS.    Instead of THJ, you could have Kleber in the lineup who is a much better defender.  At least Dallas has options.

FIFY

One thing I like about an Orlando deal is Harris goes away when the Luka and presumably the DFS/Brunson raises kick in.  We'd need one more bench guy to go with Powell, Maxi, Harris and Brunson.  A three point specialist for the RMLE would be nice.

[ItsGoTime]

BE PREPARED

For KP to stay!

[cjeter24]

I think Kemba is a high risk no reward guy myself.

He had a really good end to the year and looked healthy. And then the playoffs he looked awful without Brown. 

But he looked healthy. If healthy, he'd be a steal here. But of course that's a massive if and I have a hard time having to massive injury ifs on the roster with KP.