2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Thinking a lot about this. Two things to consider:
- basically all centers have huge defensive problems and are being attacked continously in the playoffs. It will be interesting to see how Utah will be able to defend Clippers small ball
- Mavs were only able to run PnR against Zubac. Will we really be able to utilize Holmes (or similar centre) at full extent or will he just clogg the paint?

So I do worry ab this some. What if we got Mitchell Robinson. Is he nimble enough to be playable against small-ball?

[StepBackJay]

Sure seems like a lot of our problems could be solved by getting Brogdon and Turner. I'd give up just about most of the team to make that happen somehow.

Maybe KP to GS for Wiggins+pick to Indy, Maxi+Brunson to Indy, Brogdon and Turner to Mavs.

Ya I feel the same. It really depends on there being a 3-way match. I love Brogdon and I think Turner fits really well.

[StepBackJay]

It won’t work without a couple more legit  ball handlers. Clippers trapping Luka at the top and in general the high usage rate of Luka exposed the lack of ball handling talent on this team. Even if you put 4 Bruce Bowens around Luka that will not help. 

Playmaker is the absolute number 1 priority. Brogdon, Smart are big targets. I would put DeRozan in the mix even though he is an offense-only guy. This is the number 1 position to fill. Mavs tried Wright, J-Rich but now they need to go much bigger in terms of investment to get that true secondary guy.

Think of how wasted the non-Luka minutes felt. Rick had no one who could do anything. When Kawhi sat, the Clips still had Paul George out there. Mavs were only able to sit Luka 3 minutes it was so bad.

[StepBackJay]

I really like the idea of Batum at the 4.  Him and Maxi would be a good team at the 4 and allow DFS to slide down to the 3 where he is more effective.  I seriously doubt he would cost a full MLE and I think the max the Clippers could do is the rMLE.

I actually didn't realize Batum was on vet min. I forgot ab the buyout I guess? That actually gives me hope. This whole time I thought Clips had bird rights on him.

[TurkishMFFL]

How about Dragic? He can still play, fills an important need, and more importantly is one of the few who might legit be available(if Mia is looking to get a bit younger after their debacle) that Luka actually will listen to.

Hey HF, I haven’t noticed that you are here but you were one of my favourite posters in the previous board.

I totally agree on Dragic but I definitely remember how many Mavs fans raged against a possible trade for him (I belive) two years ago.

[StepBackJay]

Why would you trade for someone you can sign outright? It makes little sense. It is basically dumping KP for cap space. If we speak about SA, Wright would make way more sense in a KP trade. Perhaps with an asset attached.

Right so you would do it because you think that the guys you can sign for cap space (THJ, Batum, etc) are better that stuff you'd get for KP. If KP's value is as "low" as ppl say it is then you could do a trade like this. I don't believe his value is this low so I think you could probably send Maxi or somebody to SA to shed some salary.

[StepBackJay]

How about Dragic? He can still play, fills an important need, and more importantly is one of the few who might legit be available(if Mia is looking to get a bit younger after their debacle) that Luka actually will listen to.

I think Dragic is definitely on the radar and should be, likely in a 6th man role. I would rather pay him than THJ given that THJ's money might get too steep. I don't really like Mavs spending starter money on him.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

With the consensus being that the ideal guard next to Luka is someone who can defend the point of attack and take playmaking duties off of Luka when needed whether it be when Luka is doubled or with the second unit, I'm very surprised that Lonzo isn't talked about much here.

The guy shot like a percentage point less than Hardaway on one more attempt per game from 3, plays elite defense in the backcourt and can actually, like....dribble which was a glaring issue for our roster in general this series.

[StepBackJay]

My offseason plan:

- KP for Smart + filler
- Batum FA
- Dragic FA 6th man
- Maxi probably shed for space
- Brunson trade for Mitchell Robinson
- Don't overpay to keep THJ

Top 6 would be:

Luka
Smart
DFS
Batum
Mitchell Robinson
Dragic

+ maybe THJ if they money can work. Some contracts (Maxi, Powell, J Rich, THJ if S&T, Celtics filler) have potentially to be shed or flipped for other pieces.

[SleepingHero]

With the consensus being that the ideal guard next to Luka is someone who can defend the point of attack and take playmaking duties off of Luka when needed whether it be when Luka is doubled or with the second unit, I'm very surprised that Lonzo isn't talked about much here.

The guy shot like a percentage point less than Hardaway on one more attempt per game from 3, plays elite defense in the backcourt and can actually, like....dribble which was a glaring issue for our roster in general this series.

Mostly because Lonzo is an RFA with his sights set on CHI or NYK who are keen to give him a max. 

He'd fit well here, though I shudder giving him a max contract. The only realistic route that someone mentioned here was KP for Lonzo/Adams. I like the framework though I think we could get even more from NOP given that Adams really doesn't fit what they're doing there.

---

Smart + filler

Marcus. Smart. Cannot. Shoot. The. Ball.

It doesn't matter how good of a defender you are. The key to succeeding next to Luka is being able to spot up. Smart will have the same fate as Richardson and Wright, 2 players that can actually score better than Smart!

[hakeemfaan]

Hey HF, I haven’t noticed that you are here but you were one of my favourite posters in the previous board.

I totally agree on Dragic but I definitely remember how many Mavs fans raged against a possible trade for him (I belive) two years ago.

I was one of those smart ones who did so too .  I don’t remember who we got eventually but at that time it looked like we would be jeopardizing on valuable cap space for Olynyk and Dragic. In hindsight those two were better than what the Mavs eventually did with any cap space.

[KillerLeft]

With the consensus being that the ideal guard next to Luka is someone who can defend the point of attack and take playmaking duties off of Luka when needed whether it be when Luka is doubled or with the second unit, I'm very surprised that Lonzo isn't talked about much here.

The guy shot like a percentage point less than Hardaway on one more attempt per game from 3, plays elite defense in the backcourt and can actually, like....dribble which was a glaring issue for our roster in general this series.

Can't argue with any of this logic. It makes a lot of sense. I just can't imagine that having that family connected with this team would be a good thing. Maybe I'm making too much of that, but I actually am one of the people around here who believes in the Mavs' culture stuff. I think it's one of the few things they've done mostly right over the past 20 years. 

And, while I'm with you about the player description you laid out seeming like the perfect fit next to Luka, we somehow need to reconcile the fact that the Mavs tried two players like that during the last two years - first, Delon Wright, then Josh Richardson. In both cases, it eventually became clear that the team was better off with Hardaway, a pure shooter, in that spot instead. How do we make sense of that? Are Wright and Richardson not good enough examples of that type? I mean, it would be GREAT if Hardaway was also a lockdown defender and not just an adequate one, but THAT guy would be a MAX player - a STAR.

I think this is a difficult thing to figure out, especially given how many people's biggest criticism is the offense. It's almost as if the Mavs need TWO starting guards next to Luka, and Luka needs to be the 3, in name and practice both. I know @"omahen" tends to look at things from that angle, and he might be right.

[StepBackJay]

Marcus. Smart. Cannot. Shoot. The. Ball.

It doesn't matter how good of a defender you are. The key to succeeding next to Luka is being able to spot up. Smart will have the same fate as Richardson and Wright, 2 players that can actually score better than Smart!

He is streaky as a shooter. His shooting fell off but part of that is his shot selection. I like his assists numbers. I think his elite all-NBA defense, playmaking and toughness outweigh the outside shot. I'd like to know his catch and shoot numbers vs his overall 3%. My theory is that they are better. I suspect the shots he has been taking are more like THJ sorta open shots vs Maxi, DFS no one in 6 feet of you catch and shoot shots.

[DallasBasketball]

With the consensus being that the ideal guard next to Luka is someone who can defend the point of attack and take playmaking duties off of Luka when needed whether it be when Luka is doubled or with the second unit, I'm very surprised that Lonzo isn't talked about much here.

The guy shot like a percentage point less than Hardaway on one more attempt per game from 3, plays elite defense in the backcourt and can actually, like....dribble which was a glaring issue for our roster in general this series.

I think Ball is interesting. He gives you that length and defense you wanted from Richardson (to be the head of your snake), but on offense when he’s alone out there he’s actually a true point guard. 

I worry about chemistry if he can’t play off the ball with Luka. Ball is a guy IMO who is good enough to run a team but in every situation he’s been passed up in that role by a point forward and certainly shouldn’t take priority over Luka as the point guard. Not to mention the part about his annoying dad.

[RasheedsBigWhiteSpot]

4 Team Trade
(moneywise it checks out)

Mavs receive:
Zach Levine
Myles Turner
Rui Hachimura
Al Aminu

Wizards receive:
KP
Trey Burke

Bulls receive:
J.Brunson
Deni Avdija
Davids Bertans
J.Richardson

Pacers receive:
Kleiber
Thomas Bryant
Josh Green

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Mostly because Lonzo is an RFA with his sights set on CHI or NYK who are keen to give him a max. 

For sure, but we have the money and the open role for him if we really want to get in that mix.

[KillerLeft]

It doesn't matter how good of a defender you are. The key to succeeding next to Luka is being able to spot up. Smart will have the same fate as Richardson and Wright, 2 players that can actually score better than Smart!

I am an admitted Smart hater, so this might be biased of me, but the above is kind of how I feel, too. 

I think Smart's impact here would be very much chapter 3 of the book that starts with a Delon Wright chapter and then a Josh Richardson chapter. I foresee a lot of Smart trying to make things happen with the ball in his hands, just like he does in Boston to drive their fans crazy, and just like Richardson did here to drive most of us crazy. 

Maybe he's so much better than Richardson that it wouldn't be an issue, idk. I'm just really skeptical.

[StepBackJay]

2 things bc this comes up a lot:

- LaVine is not happening. Bulls are going to be buyers not sellers. They are going to try to salvage the team around LaVine this summer.
- Ball is a great fit if Mavs can talk him and Pels into coming here. He has some flaws that add risk but I like his upside. So far I just haven't seen any tea leaves connecting him to the Mavs in any way.

[DallasBasketball]

Can't argue with any of this logic. It makes a lot of sense. I just can't imagine that having that family connected with this team would be a good thing. Maybe I'm making too much of that, but I actually am one of the people around here who believes in the Mavs' culture stuff. I think it's one of the few things they've done mostly right over the past 20 years. 

And, while I'm with you about the player description you laid out seeming like the perfect fit next to Luka, we somehow need to reconcile the fact that the Mavs tried two players like that during the last two years - first, Delon Wright, then Josh Richardson. In both cases, it eventually became clear that the team was better off with Hardaway, a pure shooter, in that spot instead. How do we make sense of that? Are Wright and Richardson not good enough examples of that type? I mean, it would be GREAT if Hardaway was also a lockdown defender and not just an adequate one, but THAT guy would be a MAX player - a STAR.

I think this is a difficult thing to figure out, especially given how many people's biggest criticism is the offense. It's almost as if the Mavs need TWO starting guards next to Luka, and Luka needs to be the 3, in name and practice both. I know @"omahen" tends to look at things from that angle, and he might be right.

Good points on the comparisons to Richardson/Wright. Taking a risk on a RFA like Ball when we’ve seen those 2 in that role may be missing the point. Maybe just keep with THJ and try to sign Dragic w MLE and Powell w cap space. At least you have more scorers/shooters and you keep continuity. Can run some 3 guard line ups without being miniature.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

we somehow need to reconcile the fact that the Mavs tried two players like that during the last two years - first, Delon Wright, then Josh Richardson. In both cases, it eventually became clear that the team was better off with Hardaway, a pure shooter, in that spot instead. How do we make sense of that? Are Wright and Richardson not good enough examples of that type?

I tend to feel that the answer may simply be your last sentence and they just aren't good enough.  We need to make sure whoever is there can take advantage of the 4 on 3 situations when Luka is being blitzed by double teams well above the break and neither seemed to be capable of that.  We're basically to the point where you need someone who has been a proven #1 PG on depth charts in the past.  The Brogdon ideas all make a ton of sense because he's been there, Richardson was kind of forced there in Philly but also given the boot because he wasn't good enough at that and Delon has just been...I don't even really know what Delon is still.