2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[JamesConway]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...62625?s=21

[StepBackJay]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...62625?s=21

25/yr would be criminally insane for Allen. Very good player but that would be nuts.

[StepBackJay]

I wouldn't say Holmes has ZERO trade value because that's obviously false but if you're just talking about superstar trades, sure.

Really I think the key is getting it done ahead of free agency as a S&T. We all know that if it's an RFA offer sheet the Mavs will just screw themselves.

Holmes would not have zero trade value unless we (or somebody) pays him 20 mil. You sign him to a good contract (see Christian Wood last year) and all of a sudden he has a lot of value. Wood in a trade would fetch you something nice. If this year's abundance of cap space makes a Wood-type player go to 20 mil/yr instead of 13/yr then you have to do something else. Not worth overpaying and I doubt Mavs would do that for Holmes.

Collins on the other-hand is young with more upside and so I could see an overpay there being something that Mavs would do.

[StepBackJay]

That would have more to do with Mavs flaws in roster construction circumventing THJ's value.  The smart front offices value THJ because he's extremely good at an extremely coveted and rare skillset, and he will be appreciated and paid accordingly by some smart front office.   It's also a skillset that the Mavs actually need more of rather than less of.   I would also caution that depleting our offense down to a mediocre unit in order to field a mediocre defense won't get us where we'll want to go, which is precisely why the JRich for Curry swap hasn't worked.

I am ab 90% sure THJ is staying unless he has a terrible playoff run. Miami could steal him if they made him their primary target but they aren't going to do that. Miami has their sights set on Lowry. I am not sure where THJ is on the list but like they could be putting together a package for Beal or something like that. I just don't see them as a big threat to THJ honestly.

For Mavs they have cap space to sign THJ and still sign another impact player or stay over the cap and just add like an MLE-level rotation filler (Dragic or Theis for example).

[Chicagojk]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...62625?s=21

Allen is good.  But you see plenty of productive centers in the 5 to 12 million dollar range.  Heck, Willie was productive for less than that.

Paying Allen that much is tough.  They are sort of in a tough spot with him.  Need to resign him but also so far away from being good as a team.   

It seems like he is a good asset currently, but the moment he signs his contract this offseason he turns into a negative asset.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

Allen is good.  But you see plenty of productive centers in the 5 to 12 million dollar range.  Heck, Willie was productive for less than that.

Paying Allen that much is tough.  They are sort of in a tough spot with him.  Need to resign him but also so far away from being good as a team.   

It seems like he is a good asset currently, but the moment he signs his contract this offseason he turns into a negative asset.

If Jarrett Allen is a $25 million a year player and Richaun Holmes is a $20 million a year player, Dwight Powell at $10 million is a steal.

[StepBackJay]

Allen is good.  But you see plenty of productive centers in the 5 to 12 million dollar range.  Heck, Willie was productive for less than that.

Paying Allen that much is tough.  They are sort of in a tough spot with him.  Need to resign him but also so far away from being good as a team.   

It seems like he is a good asset currently, but the moment he signs his contract this offseason he turns into a negative asset.

Who exactly is going to be trying to steal away Jarrett Allen for 25 mil? You could say Hornets maybe. I just think these rim rolling shot blocking centers are no way going to get that type of money. I just think it's total BS. I put Allen in that 13-18 mil starter money range.

[Mapka]

Who exactly is going to be trying to steal away Jarrett Allen for 25 mil? You could say Hornets maybe. I just think these rim rolling shot blocking centers are no way going to get that type of money. I just think it's total BS. I put Allen in that 13-18 mil starter money range.

What's the most the Hornets can offer?
They will offer it every ®FA-Big in the order of quality. Collins, Allen, Holmes. Who am I missing?

[omahen]

Who am I missing?

Robinson

[Mapka]

Robinson

Yeah, thanks


Stealing him might silence the posters raving about Brunsons contract.

Hornets might make some bigs paid this year.

[ItsGoTime]

That would have more to do with Mavs flaws in roster construction circumventing THJ's value.  The smart front offices value THJ because he's extremely good at an extremely coveted and rare skillset, and he will be appreciated and paid accordingly by some smart front office.   It's also a skillset that the Mavs actually need more of rather than less of.   I would also caution that depleting our offense down to a mediocre unit in order to field a mediocre defense won't get us where we'll want to go, which is precisely why the JRich for Curry swap hasn't worked.

It absolutely did work as we are a better team overall this year as opposed to your coveted Curry team.

[ItsGoTime]

So you’re saying we don’t have a smart FO. 

Get the starters in place, then work on the bench specialists. That’s how smart FOs do it. Don’t overvalue your bench guys so much that you won’t trade them or move on from them to get the starters you need. That’s how smart FOs operate.

[bearforce1]

Holmes would not have zero trade value unless we (or somebody) pays him 20 mil. You sign him to a good contract (see Christian Wood last year) and all of a sudden he has a lot of value. Wood in a trade would fetch you something nice. If this year's abundance of cap space makes a Wood-type player go to 20 mil/yr instead of 13/yr then you have to do something else. Not worth overpaying and I doubt Mavs would do that for Holmes.

Collins on the other-hand is young with more upside and so I could see an overpay there being something that Mavs would do.

Some caution on using Wood's deal as a benchmark for bigs this offseason - on a Duncan & Hollinger podcast awhile back they mentioned that Wood had some character "red-flags" well-known across the league that likely depressed the market for him.

[Mapka]

So you’re saying we don’t have a smart FO. 

Get the starters in place, then work on the bench specialists. That’s how smart FOs do it. Don’t overvalue your bench guys so much that you won’t trade them or move on from them to get the starters you need. That’s how smart FOs operate.

Being smart always includes being opportunistic. I love our fringe starter/ superbench crew. Keeping them and adding another semi-starter playmaker might be better than losing them and adding a "real" starter.

[ItsGoTime]

Being smart always includes being opportunistic. I love our fringe starter/ superbench crew. Keeping them and adding another semi-starter playmaker might be better than losing them and adding a "real" starter.

Maybe in the short term, but not for long term playoff success. We have to figure out the way we’re going to get the starter here. FA hasn’t been working, draft hasn’t been working, trading has been. 


We’re really good in FA in finding the diamonds in the rough, or the supersub. We can also get those guys in trade and the draft. What we’re bad at is getting the consistent starter. If by trade is the only way you can bring in starter level guys, then do that. Then go to work where you’re strongest, finding bench players in every aspect of attaining talent.

[SleepingHero]

If Jarrett Allen is a $25 million a year player and Richaun Holmes is a $20 million a year player, Dwight Powell at $10 million is a steal.

Can't believe I actually agree with you. I always felt Powell was a massive overpay. If those two guys get north of 20 mil then Powell might be on one of the biggest bargains in the league.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Some caution on using Wood's deal as a benchmark for bigs this offseason - on a Duncan & Hollinger podcast awhile back they mentioned that Wood had some character "red-flags" well-known across the league that likely depressed the market for him.

Thanks for that.  As I’ve said before, we could have easily been on the receiving end of Wood since we sent assets to Detroit that would have covered his outgoing.  I’ve assumed he wanted “his” team and didn’t want to be third fiddle to Luka/KP.  It certainly could have been the Mav’s not being interested.  

I know of another situation where Dallas passed on trading for a player we used to all pine for not that long ago.  He had some substance abuse issues (can’t say who as it would violate a confidence).  So, passing on Wood for character red-flags rings true to me as a possibility.

[IamDougieFresh]

Are you not entertained?

[Mavs2021]

Ujiri´s future in Toronto uncertain. PAY THE MAN.

[BasketballJones41]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...64129?s=21