2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[BasketballJones41]

Turner has been great defensively so I like having defense in the middle, BUT I am intrigued about Wiseman as a pick and roll partner for Luka.

I agree. I soured on the idea right after I typed it.

[BasketballJones41]

Another thought. Would Wiseman, Brunson, and the Minnesota pick get us in the Bradley Beal conversation?

[Kammrath]

I really wonder what his trade value is. Based on TV crews (I always listen to hometeam crew) they see him as a starter. But I doubt anyone sees high ceiling with him. So I am affraid his trade value would be similar to be that of Kleber or DFS. Not material anyone would trade us a star or a high ceiling prospect. Material for "Curry for JRich" type of trades. And it is of course very diffcult to find a significant improvement in these type of trades.

Wouldn't his ceiling be something like Brogdon? That would be my guess. 

I personally think he can be the secondary ball handler alongside Luka IF Luke and JB get the elite pick and roll partner they both have chemistry with. I just really think THAT is the big need on this team. A screen setting, pick and roll partner that brings out the best in Luka and JB offensively.

[StepBackJay]

I really wonder what his trade value is. Based on TV crews (I always listen to hometeam crew) they see him as a starter. But I doubt anyone sees high ceiling with him. So I am affraid his trade value would be similar to be that of Kleber or DFS. Not material anyone would trade us a star or a high ceiling prospect. Material for "Curry for JRich" type of trades. And it is of course very diffcult to find a significant improvement in these type of trades.

Brunson's value is on the rise. I used to think that he was not on the radar of anyone outside of the Mavs but he is turning heads this year. If he has another great season next year he will be a hot name.

[StepBackJay]

I'm not opposed to it, but your scouting department better absolutely love whoever you think you can get for that pick ... because I have real reservations whether Wiseman ever turns into anything to build on (especially within the next 3-4 years) and Wiggins is pretty much the same Wiggins he has always been (no more, no less).   You're pretty much punting on the next 2-3 years as a competitive team.   If you don't hit a home run with that pick, I expect the Mavs to perennially miss the playoffs and Luka walks.

I think GSW would do that deal for sure. KP would be a great fit. Wiseman is fine and I think has a high floor as a useful big but they want a win-now player. I would have to take that Minney pick as part of the deal.

[StepBackJay]

If the Mavs LOVE someone that they are certain they can get for that pick then I am IN. I am all for "restarting" the timeline with rookie salaries of key talent.

Ya me too. I am also interested in Collins because at least he's young, albeit no longer on a rookie salary.

[soog]

I am very much for this option. I think Brunson needs to be promoted or traded frankly. 

I think that if you promote him you expose him a bit more and his numbers drop.  RC’s success with undersized guards is that he puts them in matchups where they can excel - usually off of the bench and spot time with the starters.  I do think Brunson is better than any of the previous guys but I doubt he would find the same success if he were a full time starter.

I’d be all for trading him if the return were worth it, but unless we have someone else on this team who can handle the ball, the Mavs can’t afford to trade him right now.

Or trade him with a much larger package that brings back Ball and I’m good with that.

[StepBackJay]

Wouldn't his ceiling be something like Brogdon? That would be my guess. 

I personally think he can be the secondary ball handler alongside Luka IF Luke and JB get the elite pick and roll partner they both have chemistry with. I just really think THAT is the big need on this team. A screen setting, pick and roll partner that brings out the best in Luka and JB offensively.

Kirk from MMB wondering if Mavs were saving the KP PnR (where KP actually dives to the rim) for the playoffs as an injury prevention measure. I do want to see if that is unleashed in the playoffs.

At any rate ya Powell was supposed to be Luka's roll partner and we see it sometimes but in limited spots.

[Kammrath]

Kirk from MMB wondering if Mavs were saving the KP PnR (where KP actually dives to the rim) for the playoffs as an injury prevention measure. I do want to see if that is unleashed in the playoffs.

At any rate ya Powell was supposed to be Luka's roll partner and we see it sometimes but in limited spots.

If they save it then they won't be very good, polished, or practiced when the time comes that they need it most. 

KP is 36th percentile in the NBA as the pick and roll man (and worst on the Mavs), scoring only 1.06 PPP. 

Get this, when JB sets screens for Luka and rolls he scores 1.20 PPP. JB has been more efficient as the roll man than KP this year. 

[cow]

If they save it then they won't be very good, polished, or practiced when the time comes that they need it most. 

KP is 36th percentile in the NBA as the pick and roll man (and worst on the Mavs), scoring only 1.06 PPP. 

Get this, when JB sets screens for Luka and rolls he scores 1.20 PPP. JB has been more efficient as the roll man than KP this year. 

No offense to Kirk but "saving" KP sounds absurd.  Do Cuban and Nellie have a fleet of luxury cars they own but refuse to drive because they don't want dings and scratches?

[StepBackJay]

No offense to Kirk but "saving" KP sounds absurd.  Do Cuban and Nellie have a fleet of luxury cars they own but refuse to drive because they don't want dings and scratches?

Right I don't think he's a fan of it but I bet we see KP doing more of this stuff he doesn't do in the regular season once the playoffs roll around. Even Dirk changed his game some to be more physical in the playoffs.

[StepBackJay]

If they save it then they won't be very good, polished, or practiced when the time comes that they need it most. 

KP is 36th percentile in the NBA as the pick and roll man (and worst on the Mavs), scoring only 1.06 PPP. 

Get this, when JB sets screens for Luka and rolls he scores 1.20 PPP. JB has been more efficient as the roll man than KP this year. 

KP rolls like once in a full moon so not a huge sample size. It's sort of nuts.

[Kammrath]

KP rolls like once in a full moon so not a huge sample size.

Synergy tracks him rolling 3.4 times a game. Which shocked me.

[cow]

Wiggins would take years off my life.  At least we'd have a new Parsons/Barnes/Wes whipping boy.

[ClutchDirk]

Wiggins would take years off my life.  At least we'd have a new Parsons/Barnes/Wes whipping boy.

Lol...

You forgot to add KP to the list...

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Wiseman is fine 

I don't know what we could base this on other than a bunch of pre-draft hype (as if NBA lotttery picks don't flame out as often as not ..especially bigs).    I'd say even under managed expectations he has been a disappointment in Golden State as a rookie, and he wasn't a player with a sterling record of accomplishments in college.  

Given how undeveloped he was coming into the league,  I'd say the absolutely best case scenerio career for Wiseman would be Tyson Chandler right out of high school type of career arc, but I'm not sure Tyson was ready to be a high level contributor to a contender until his 6th season or so in the NBA.

[StepBackJay]

I don't know what we could base this on other than a bunch of pre-draft hype (as if NBA lotttery picks don't flame out as often as not ..especially bigs).    I'd say even under managed expectations he has been a disappointment in Golden State as a rookie, and he wasn't a player with a sterling record of accomplishments in college.  

Given how undeveloped he was coming into the league,  I'd say the absolutely best case scenerio career for Wiseman would be Tyson Chandler right out of high school type of career arc, but I'm not sure Tyson was ready to be a high level contributor to a contender until his 6th season or so in the NBA.

Ya I am not in love with Wiseman, I think he's fine. The big piece in a trade would be that Minney pick. Maybe the Mavs are in love with Wiseman, I have no idea. I would guess they aren't bc they probably want to go smaller. This KP situation is up and down for sure. Best thing for the Mavs to do is to try to improve the current situation with KP.

[mvossman]

I am very much for this option. I think Brunson needs to be promoted or traded frankly. 

Brunson is not an option to fill JRich role as a quality guard defender.  He is a poor defender and I don't see that changing.  I would argue that a team that has asperations to be good defensively (and they need to be in order to truly contend) needs to have at least one quality guard defender who is not a disaster offensively.  There is hope that Green can eventually get there, but it is unlikely to be anytime soon.

As for Brunson's role, they have already promoted him.  He is the 6th man that leads the second unit and finishes with the starters.  We will see how that plays out long term, but not sure why his role needs to be expanded beyond that?  We don't have anyone else that can lead the second unit or create their own shot to take some pressure off Luka, so if you are going to trade him you need to replace that.

[mvossman]

I'm not sure about this.   He is at 11.5 PER so far this year.    He was a 12 PER player last year, and his PER has been below 12 in 4 out of his 6 years.   His all time best career year was 14.  

I would say he's been a bad offensive player for quite a while now, and been a bad offensive player for more of his career than he's been a non-bad offensive player.

I'm not a fan of using PER to assess a player.  That is more a measurement of volume than efficiency.  Guys like Maxi, DFS and JRich are not there for volume offense.  They are defense first players that ideally don't hurt you on offense.  At a minimum you want them to provide spacing to give the two stars room.  JRich additionally provides a little distribution and a little bit of a midrange game.  It has not been as much as I had hoped, and he is really struggling with his 3 this year, but when an opponent sags off a player it is still DFS and not JRich that happens with.  Assuming he gets his 3 percentage back to his career average he is a quality defense first starter that is not that easy to replace.

[Mavs2021]

When is the last time the Mavs traded for a young player? The Devin Harris pick? I don´t think you need to worry about Wiseman. You could speculate that they´d use him+Minny pick as trade assets to get Beal, but Mavs don´t asset management either.

So the Mavs probbaly think more about a Lowry/DeRozan package. It´s more of a Carlisle veteran team, too. 


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