2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[dirkfansince1998]

But this is basically what this trade is about. Us dumping Powell to a cap space team  We can sign DeRozan without SnT and SA can sign JRich without SnT. The only benefit is if we operate over the cap. But if we dump Powell, there would likely be enough powder left to resign THJ within cap space anway

And the Spurs would just gift the Mavs DeRozan? Why would the Spurs downgrade without any compensation. It´s not like DeRozan and Richardson have similar value.

[omahen]

And the Spurs would just gift the Mavs DeRozan without any compensation?

Spurs basically have zero say in this, as DeRozan is a UFA. They can take 3 second rounders and Powell or we sign DeRozan into cap space and dump Powell to OKC.

Disclaimer: DeRozan would be very low on my target list, just discussing principle of a trade

[soog]

Obviously. Most people are for most teams in the league.

Sure, but this isn’t the NBA player assessment thread, it is the “ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in caps over this summer thread” where we’re talking about who is worth what and what the Mavs should pay to resign them.

So when we’re talking about re-signing THJ, or re-signing JRich, or trade scenarios including JB, and all of the cap implications it’s important to prioritize who has special skill sets that are additive to the team and should be prioritized.

JB - cool customer who can handle the ball under pressure - high BBIQ - can distribute - can create his own shot - Not easily replaceable

THJ - good culture fit - big energy/effort guy - lighting in a bottle scorer - can create his own shot - has shown he can thrive off of the bench - not easily replaceable

JRich - average defender with the reputation of being a “dawg” - inconsistent shooter - can’t create his own shot - replaceable 

If we have to prioritize re-signing these guys, or consider one going out in a trade JRich is the odd man out of the guard rotation.  And I definitely wouldn’t pay up to resign him.  Even if there is not a clear UPGRADE out there (as you said), you will be able to find another average player out there to replace him because, like you said, most of the NBA fits into this replaceable category

[omahen]

I don't think Mavs will trade KP, but there is so many options to fantasize about. I think this one is interesting, IF Minny pick converts this year (likely 4th or 5th). If not, I am not taking the chance with the 2022 unprotected. With all those number one picks on board, Minny might get out of lottery once. 

So basically KP for Wiggins, Wiseman and 2021 4th or 5th pick. 

https://www.inquisitr.com/6487050/nba-ru...ingis-in-2

[KillerLeft]

So basically KP for Wiggins, Wiseman and 2021 4th or 5th pick. 

IN

[BasketballJones41]

IN

Wiggins has become pretty good defender these days hasn’t he?

[omahen]

IN

If we can snatch someone who can become a star in 2-3 years in this allegedly top heavy draft (just reading titles, didn't really put any effort in the draft class), this team could become really good, especially if Wiseman would also develop.

[HAguiar95]

Sure, but this isn’t the NBA player assessment thread, it is the “ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in caps over this summer thread” where we’re talking about who is worth what and what the Mavs should pay to resign them.

So when we’re talking about re-signing THJ, or re-signing JRich, or trade scenarios including JB, and all of the cap implications it’s important to prioritize who has special skill sets that are additive to the team and should be prioritized.

JB - cool customer who can handle the ball under pressure - high BBIQ - can distribute - can create his own shot - Not easily replaceable

THJ - good culture fit - big energy/effort guy - lighting in a bottle scorer - can create his own shot - has shown he can thrive off of the bench - not easily replaceable

JRich - average defender with the reputation of being a “dawg” - inconsistent shooter - can’t create his own shot - replaceable 

If we have to prioritize re-signing these guys, or consider one going out in a trade JRich is the odd man out of the guard rotation.  And I definitely wouldn’t pay up to resign him.  Even if there is not a clear UPGRADE out there (as you said), you will be able to find another average player out there to replace him because, like you said, most of the NBA fits into this replaceable category

I'll say what I said on the J-Rich defense thread. J-Rich has been a major disappointment, negative impacts on offense and defense. But Timothy has impacted our defense so negative that I don't get the J-Rich hate/THJ love (maybe because he puts up points against bad teams or because he's a likeable guy celebrating Luka), especially when we had an entire year of the latter combined with his pathetic performance in the playoffs, we should be hating both if that's the case. Using LEBRON (to me the best stat there is to rate a player's impact on his team due to role, usage, lineup, scheme and fit, not his overall talent), it meets the eye test.






Obviously it doesn't take into account all the COVID stuff (Josh had it and THJ had to play with a deflated lineup) buth Josh and Timothy are our worst players in terms of impact and both will hit Free Agency. Use this money to find a starter player that fits this system (do your job FO, please), this is our last chance before Luka's big contract. I don't mind overpaying as long as the player has a big positive impact. Be aggressive and don't fall in love with our boys in blue. They should be plan C or D this summer. People don't want to pay an old guy like Conley/Paul/DeRozan (big parts of their team's success), but keep in mind that THJ is 29 and J-Rich is 28. It's not like they're a part of our core or something.

[mvossman]

Sure, but this isn’t the NBA player assessment thread, it is the “ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in caps over this summer thread” where we’re talking about who is worth what and what the Mavs should pay to resign them.

So when we’re talking about re-signing THJ, or re-signing JRich, or trade scenarios including JB, and all of the cap implications it’s important to prioritize who has special skill sets that are additive to the team and should be prioritized.

JB - cool customer who can handle the ball under pressure - high BBIQ - can distribute - can create his own shot - Not easily replaceable

THJ - good culture fit - big energy/effort guy - lighting in a bottle scorer - can create his own shot - has shown he can thrive off of the bench - not easily replaceable

JRich - average defender with the reputation of being a “dawg” - inconsistent shooter - can’t create his own shot - replaceable 

If we have to prioritize re-signing these guys, or consider one going out in a trade JRich is the odd man out of the guard rotation.  And I definitely wouldn’t pay up to resign him.  Even if there is not a clear UPGRADE out there (as you said), you will be able to find another average player out there to replace him because, like you said, most of the NBA fits into this replaceable category

I would argue JRich is a better than average defender.  He is not elite or lock-down, but he is a quality defender that can guard 1-3.  History and his age say he is not this bad on offense.  If he does not opt in, you are looking at a potential buy low candidate.  We need a quality guard defender that does not kill you on offense.  If not JRich, then who?

[omahen]

If not JRich, then who?

One option would be to "promote" Brunson and Green (maybe bring in a cheap back up for minimle) and spend the money on another position.

[BasketballJones41]

One option would be to "promote" Brunson and Green (maybe bring in a cheap back up for minimle) and spend the money on another position.

I would much rather roll with JB and green than bring back Jrich. Another idea I had was Alec Burks. He’s a much better shooter than Richardson but I don’t know about his defense.

[Kammrath]

So basically KP for Wiggins, Wiseman and 2021 4th or 5th pick. 

If the Mavs LOVE someone that they are certain they can get for that pick then I am IN. I am all for "restarting" the timeline with rookie salaries of key talent.

[Kammrath]

One option would be to "promote" Brunson and Green (maybe bring in a cheap back up for minimle) and spend the money on another position.

I am very much for this option. I think Brunson needs to be promoted or traded frankly. 

[BasketballJones41]

If the Mavs LOVE someone that they are certain they can get for that pick then I am IN. I am all for "restarting" the timeline with rookie salaries of key talent.

Could we flip Wiseman to Indiana for Turner? Do you think that would be a good trade?

[KillerLeft]

I am all for "restarting" the timeline with rookie salaries of key talent.

So much this. 

They can do this and STILL be a playoff team, only with the future ceiling raised significantly.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

 History and his age say he is not this bad on offense. 

I'm not sure about this.   He is at 11.5 PER so far this year.    He was a 12 PER player last year, and his PER has been below 12 in 4 out of his 6 years.   His all time best career year was 14.  

I would say he's been a bad offensive player for quite a while now, and been a bad offensive player for more of his career than he's been a non-bad offensive player.

[Kammrath]

They can do this and STILL be a playoff team, only with the future ceiling raised significantly.

Exactly. There is so much future gain in such a scenario and very little downside if the Mavs are confident about the guy they are targeting. I think the Mavs much prefer to trade for draft picks WHEN they make them rather than draft picks that will convey in some unknown way.

When is the last time the Mavs ever traded for a future first when the pick wasn't being made at the time of the trade?

[HanspardShowerVoice]

So basically KP for Wiggins, Wiseman and 2021 4th or 5th pick. 

https://www.inquisitr.com/6487050/nba-ru...ingis-in-2

I'm not opposed to it, but your scouting department better absolutely love whoever you think you can get for that pick ... because I have real reservations whether Wiseman ever turns into anything to build on (especially within the next 3-4 years) and Wiggins is pretty much the same Wiggins he has always been (no more, no less).   You're pretty much punting on the next 2-3 years as a competitive team.   If you don't hit a home run with that pick, I expect the Mavs to perennially miss the playoffs and Luka walks.

[Kammrath]

Could we flip Wiseman to Indiana for Turner? Do you think that would be a good trade?

Turner has been great defensively so I like having defense in the middle, BUT I am intrigued about Wiseman as a pick and roll partner for Luka.

[omahen]

Brunson

I really wonder what his trade value is. Based on TV crews (I always listen to hometeam crew) they see him as a starter. But I doubt anyone sees high ceiling with him. So I am affraid his trade value would be similar to be that of Kleber or DFS. Not material anyone would trade us a star or a high ceiling prospect. Material for "Curry for JRich" type of trades. And it is of course very diffcult to find a significant improvement in these type of trades.