2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Bogdanovic got 18m/yr. I've been expecting THJ to come in a little below that, but I wouldn't be surprised (or disappointed) if he got an equivalent offer. Clarkson was not playing nearly this well when he got his deal so I don't believe he's a good comparison any longer.

I forgot to put Clarkson on the list, his contract is an amazing value. Even at the time he signed it he had good production, I am surprised they got him to sign at that level. His deal seems like an outlier compared to some other players that are getting more like 4/70+.

[loki]

What would the Ramifications be for waiving Powell? How much would that cost us and for how many years and how much extra space would that free up this year?

He's owed 22.2m total over the next two seasons. If waiving him you could stretch that salary over 5 seasons with a 4.4m cap hit each year. With an additional minimum salary cap hold taken into account, that frees up about 5.7m in additional cap space for 2021.

[F Gump]

How many number four guys on not-quite-contending teams get $18 mil/year?

Really great point.

Hardaway's market will be defined by how other teams see him in their mix -- and while he has certainly been solid as a Mav, it's hard to imagine any team sees him as a top 3 on their roster that they want to be building their winning team around for the next 3-4 years. He's not Finley.

So if others don't see him as a top 3 guy, then who's pushing his price tag to the upper teens or into the 20s? There's no need for the Mavs to bid against themselves.

[BasketballJones41]

He's owed 22.2m total over the next two seasons. If waiving him you could stretch that salary over 5 seasons with a 4.4m cap hit each year. With an additional minimum salary cap hold taken into account, that frees up about 5.7m in additional cap space for 2021.

Thank you

[F Gump]

What would the Ramifications be for waiving Powell? How much would that cost us and for how many years and how much extra space would that free up this year?

With all due respect, this isn't even a conversation worth exploring. The Mavs are not going to ever think of waiving Powell, even in his current level of play. They see him through rose-covered glasses.

[Branduil]

I'm firmly in the pro-KP camp and believe this team's ceiling is higher if KP got healthy vs banking on a trade return but IF we were to move him, I think Golden State would make the most sense with a Wiggins package.  Wiseman and/or the Minny pick could be argued to be a pretty decent return if we moved on without him.

Considering GS fans are openly calling Wiseman a bust now, nothing less than Wiseman AND the pick would be an acceptable return for KP. Especially if they also want us to eat Wiggins' salary.

[Mapka]

I think all of our conversations about this offseason are pretty moot unless Luka and KP magically fall in unlikely basketball love before or during the playoffs, because KP is getting moved for whatever if that doesn't happen. We have no idea right now what the return will be and what effect it will have on our cap situation. My guesses:

1) THJ is back next year at a lower salary - a mil or two haircut per year from his last salary.
2) JRich is back, opted-in if he didn't improve from his current play, and at a very slightly higher salary if he did. Because we have no choice but to keep Duffy happy. I agree with the post today that the great benefit of JRich is that he changed our culture. That's a good thing, and worth keeping on the roster if we can.
3) Brunson is still here.
4) I hope WCS is still here, but perhaps the MBT will be as dumb as many fans are. An upgrade is going to be hard to find on him for backup center if we traded KP.
5) Melli is brought back.
6) Several of our rooks are gone in trade.
7) I hope Maxi is still here, but he's our best trade asset aside from KP. Because Brunson isn't a trade asset.
8) Powell is still here because LOL.
9) We get a nice player (likely frontcourt) and a somewhat nice additional asset for KP. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't for Collins in a three-team deal, with us getting a small tip from the team getting KP and the bulk of their sent assets going to Atlanta. 
10) The rest of roster is filled out with a very good MLE player and a decent piece with the small amount of cap room we likely have left over.

This would be a massive downgrade and a shot in the knee to me.
There is no reasonable trade for KP out there.

[mvossman]

I think all of our conversations about this offseason are pretty moot unless Luka and KP magically fall in unlikely basketball love before or during the playoffs, because KP is getting moved for whatever if that doesn't happen. We have no idea right now what the return will be and what effect it will have on our cap situation. My guesses:

1) THJ is back next year at a lower salary - a mil or two haircut per year from his last salary.
2) JRich is back, opted-in if he didn't improve from his current play, and at a very slightly higher salary if he did. Because we have no choice but to keep Duffy happy. I agree with the post today that the great benefit of JRich is that he changed our culture. That's a good thing, and worth keeping on the roster if we can.
3) Brunson is still here.
4) I hope WCS is still here, but perhaps the MBT will be as dumb as many fans are. An upgrade is going to be hard to find on him for backup center if we traded KP.
5) Melli is brought back.
6) Several of our rooks are gone in trade.
7) I hope Maxi is still here, but he's our best trade asset aside from KP. Because Brunson isn't a trade asset.
8) Powell is still here because LOL.
9) We get a nice player (likely frontcourt) and a somewhat nice additional asset for KP. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't for Collins in a three-team deal, with us getting a small tip from the team getting KP and the bulk of their sent assets going to Atlanta. 
10) The rest of roster is filled out with a very good MLE player and a decent piece with the small amount of cap room we likely have left over.

I agree with a lot of this, but I don't think it's that set in stone that they are going to move KP.  And if all they are going to get from a KP trade is Collins and a small asset, then I really hope they don't pull that trigger.  They would be a better team with a higher ceiling if they do everything on your list, but keep KP.  Operate over the cap and get a quality backup big (Theis?) with the MLE.

[BasketballJones41]

With all due respect, this isn't even a conversation worth exploring. The Mavs are not going to ever think of waiving Powell, even in his current level of play. They see him through rose-covered glasses.

You’re probably right that they won’t do it and you’re definitely right about the rose colored glasses.

[Branduil]

Personally I would definitely move KP for Collins-plus next year unless KP shows he can be healthy and play with strong chemistry with Luka this postseason.

[cow]

Powell isn't getting waived and it would cost too much to trade him.  KP isn't getting traded the either.   Hopefully we move on from WCS (should be ridiculously easy to replace at a lower salary and for someone that can contribute EVERY game instead of one ever four or five games, that would require the MBT to catch up to the rest of the league and realize the dude shouldn't be in the NBA), Boban and Burke via trade.  Redick will also be gone.  We'll have plenty of spots to fill and that doesn't even take into account what will happen with Tim and Josh.

[Kammrath]

Personally I would definitely move KP for Collins-plus next year unless KP shows he can be healthy and play with strong chemistry with Luka this postseason.

Yep I am 100% in this camp.

[Mapka]

Yep I am 100% in this camp.

I have the feeling you would move KP for Rondo and Boogie.

[Kammrath]

I have the feeling you would move KP for Rondo and Boogie

No way. I actually value KP as an ASSET very highly. I just think his fit with Luka is limiting for the team. I am also comfortable with rolling with Luka+KP if they can figure stuff out on the court.

[cow]

No way. I actually value KP as an ASSET very highly. I just think his fit with Luka is limiting for the team. I am also comfortable with rolling with Luka+KP if they can figure stuff out on the court.

I'd settle for him playing in back-to-back games next season.  If KP is healthy entering the offseason, I see very little chance the Mavs move him.  It would be one of the few offseasons he's had where he can focus on improving his game rather than rehabbing.  Next years TDL might be another story but the MBT are pretty stubborn.

[Mapka]

No way. I actually value KP as an ASSET very highly. I just think his fit with Luka is limiting for the team. I am also comfortable with rolling with Luka+KP if they can figure stuff out on the court.

I think KP (if healthy) is a much better compliment to Luka than Collins, just because he can change a game on the defensive end.

If he could hone in his post game the other end should be no problem at all.

And this ifs seems smaller to me than the ifs surounding Collins.

[Branduil]

Personally I find the MBT's obsession with Collins weird if they are planning on keeping KP. Do they actually think both guys would be happy together? Do they think two max-salary frontcourt guys is a good idea when literally no other team is doing that?

[cow]

Personally I find the MBT's obsession with Collins weird if they are planning on keeping KP. Do they actually think both guys would be happy together? Do they think two max-salary frontcourt guys is a good idea when literally no other team is doing that?

I'm not sure we know enough about the MBT's interest in Collins to call it an obsession.  Further, luring any max-salary player, especially at Collins' age, would be a massive win for them.  Lastly, for whatever it's worth, Cuban's been a fan of saying, "when the league zigs, is the best opportunity to zag".

[Branduil]

I'm not sure we know enough about the MBT's interest in Collins to call it an obsession.  Further, luring any max-salary player, especially at Collins' age, would be a massive win for them.  Lastly, for whatever it's worth, Cuban's been a fan of saying, "when the league zigs, is the best opportunity to zag".

I mean he wouldn't be zagging against the league but his own coach, who just recently didn't play KP when the other team went small. Seems like a bad idea to go all-in on a big team if you can't play both of them in every situation.


The only other team I can remember trying that strategy in recent years is Philly, and we all saw how that went last year.

[cow]

I mean he wouldn't be zagging against the league but his own coach, who just recently didn't play KP when the other team went small. Seems like a bad idea to go all-in on a big team if you can't play both of them in every situation.


The only other team I can remember trying that strategy in recent years is Philly, and we all saw how that went last year.

MBT and Carlisle often seem like they aren't in lockstep.  *shrug*