2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Welcome back!!!

Good thoughts. Do the reddit guys know who Roddy B is?

Knowing where the audience is coming from they probably know him best as Shane Larkin's former backcourt mate for Anadolu Efes Instanbul as opposed to the NBA Champion in street clothes that Roddy should be known as.

FreeRoddyB

[Kammrath]

FreeRoddyB

LOVE the username.

Also, I have to take quite a bit of credit for "FreeRoddyB" and that whole movement. I was the one who started hyping him to Fish and Cuban...and then the movement exploded... just saying.  

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Hey guys, this is my first post here so I first just want to say how glad I am to find out this place existed.  I used to post every once and a while on the db.com boards under a different name, cdansby, but I kind of thought this all just died when Fisher moved sites without understanding that his entire audience were these boards.  Mavs Twitter and Reddit drives me crazy with how surface level and knee jerk some of the takes are, so seeing all these usernames again is quite the sight for sore eyes.

I got a million thoughts I'd like to get off my chest but I'll just stick with what's being discussed.

I get confused as to fans' frustration of the rookie's minutes this year as we are clearly in a little more of a win now mode compared to recent years and we also seem to be, you know, winning now when the roster is full strength and squeezing Green and the rest of the bunch out of the rotation.  I think we just caught a lot of bad luck this year with the G League not being what it normally is because I feel that all 4 kids would be getting most of their development there this year, so in that sense the player development has been disappointing but obviously not from any fault of the FO.  I also think it's weird to claim this team doesn't develop rookies when two of our starters were developed in house.

For the rookies themselves I think we have great upside in all 4 of them.  Personally, I think Bey may end up carving himself out a role sooner than the rest out of need (I'm also biased because I live in the Boulder area and saw a lot of him in college and was ecstatic when we landed him in the trade) but think that all showed promise in the bubble.  And although I was very high on the fit of Aaron Gordon as the 4 on this team, I'm glad Green wasn't moved because of the uncertainty around Hardaway's and Richardson's futures here at the moment.  At the very least we have someone we can thrust into those minutes and hope that he can step up if needed next season.  We also didn't really have the ammo to match Denver's offer anyway but that's a different point for a different thread.

I also think us sending out our second rounder shows that we like all 4 of those guys because we're basically saying we don't have roster space for that second rounder anyway because they plan on all 4 being guaranteed next year.

Anyways, these are random thoughts and not directly tied to other posts in this thread but just kind of excited that I'm here moving forward instead of listening to a bunch of reddit posters who have been Mavs fans for 2 and a half seasons screaming to fire Rick.

I, weirdly enough, have Clipper fans in my life and they absolutely went on and on and on about how Doc Rivers hated playing young players with the Clippers.    I thought maybe they were going overboard, because Tyrese Maxey was getting pretty decent chunk of playing time to start the year.   But now I noticed that his playing time has been really cut back and it will probably be even further cut back once George Hill is ready to go.

[fifteenth]

Yeah, so to me, last night was literally the first game in which Green saw the floor and actually helped. If he strings 3-4 of those together (when called upon) then I bet he starts to play more regularly. 

The funny thing, and the reason I'm becoming increasingly aware of how pointless these debates are is that if/when that happens, people will say "see, they should've been playing him all along" instead of "wow, that kid has come a long way. The coaches are doing a good job with him." The reality is that there probably are things the coaches and organization could be doing better, but none of those folks have the slightest clue what they are. How could we? The choices are to trust that the organization is trying to do what's best and working with a much deeper base of knowledge than we are, or to find a different source of entertainment. This third option of constantly complaining about everything, twisting the details of every situation into a club to use beating oneself and everyone else here into the mud is perplexing to me. I just don't see the allure of it.

Agree with all this. I know about the Mavs via TV, internet, media, etc., so can't speak with any first hand knowledge. But I've heard folks with first hand knowledge describe how hard the coaching staff and players work on player development. The young players are working hard every day to get better so that they can improve enough to contribute in games. That's what they do. And that's what the coaches do with them. I've never bought the idea that game time is the only time for a player to develop. 

Game time can be greatly beneficial, and at some point is essential, but it can also be counter productive, I think. The coaches have to figure out, based on where each player is at, and based on team goals, how to best develop these guys and help them become contributors. Posters often make it sound like the coaches aren't actually deeply invested in solving the problem of how to best do this, and I don't think that's accurate.

[SleepingHero]

I just have this crazy gut feeling about him. I think he's going to be good. I loooooove smart players. We don't know if he's a smart player yet, but we definitely know he's a smart person. I'm betting on that, personally.

I really want to have that confidence in Terry. I just haven't seen a modicum of NBA talent in him yet. His G-league stretch did leave the door cracked open for me.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

LOVE the username.

Also, I have to take quite a bit of credit for "FreeRoddyB" and that whole movement. I was the one who started hyping him to Fish and Cuban...and then the movement exploded... just staying.  

Will never get over how injuries created such a what if scenario with Roddy but still super happy he carved out a great career overseas.  Still find myself checking out his highlights once every few months (spoiler alert: kid's still got it!).

[Kammrath]

Will never get over how injuries created such a what if scenario with Roddy but still super happy he carved out a great career overseas. 

It kind of looked ridiculous when injuries derailed everything, but I was hammering during his rookie year that he had superstar potential. I STILL think that other than Dirk and Luka in the last 20 years he had the highest-ceiling of any Mavs players to come through the door.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

It kind of looked ridiculous when injuries derailed everything, but I was hammering during his rookie year that he had superstar potential. I STILL think that other than Dirk and Luka in the last 20 years he had the highest-ceiling of any Mavs players to come through the door.

Preaching to the choir.  The kid was dropping 40 one night, ripping Nash before he got to half court the next night and swatting Paul Milsap on the baseline the next.  Showed crazy flashes on both ends.

Every time I see Rick draw up his pet alley oop play out of a timeout all I think is the Kidd to Roddy connection that started it all.

[fifteenth]

and Cuban

oo
 0

[mavsluvr]

Also, would you describe Trey Burke as "low-mistake"? He's gotten 15 mpg in 44 games. 

Just saying, I didn't say the "low-mistake, high-energy" line, but seems to me that on many nights, the Mavs could have used a guy that is just like that! 

The biggest reason given for less rookie play is because RC wants to win and he trusts his vets to make less mistakes than the rookies. That is a lot of minutes between Burke and Johnson, two not-so-low-mistake guys IMO.

Rick did describe Green as being "low-mistake, high-energy," but I think the remark has to be interpreted in context. 

Rick did not volunteer that as part of his post-game presser, but said it in response to a direct question about what he thought about Green's season so far. I think he wanted to be supportive of his player in the media, and take advantage of the opportunity to maybe give him a confidence boost with a pat on the back for reducing his mistakes and keeping his energy up. 

I do not think Rick intended his observation as some sort of "gotcha" card for Green to be able to claim more playing time from Rick than any other particular player on the roster. 

We are all glad to see signs of Green's development, but let's face it, the guy has had numerous bad games, one pretty good game, and the good one was against one of the weakest teams in the league. Rick isn't likely to move him to the front of the line anytime soon, and imho he shouldn't. Boucek also spoke about Green in a more pros-and-cons sense. She was very positive, and thought he might possibly be up for some increased responsibility later this season, but not right now.

[KillerLeft]

they absolutely went on and on and on about how Doc Rivers hated playing young players with the Clippers. 

Yeah, all coaches do. Good coaches get jobs that are judged on wins/losses, like Rivers and Carlisle, and "hopeful, up and coming" coaches get jobs that are judged based on player development, like Silas in Houston. Fans of the good teams moan and cry over not playing rookies, as if their coach is the only one in the league who doesn't just hand the keys of a major role on a playoff team over to some 19 year old. 

I really want to have that confidence in Terry. I just haven't seen a modicum of NBA talent in him yet. His G-league stretch did leave the door cracked open for me.

Totally admit that he hasn't shown a thing yet at this level. My faith has been tested, for sure. Like I said though, I just have a feeling. I also once had a feeling that Antoine Wright was going to seize the Mavericks' swing position and go to the next level, so what the hell do I know?

---

It kind of looked ridiculous when injuries derailed everything, but I was hammering during his rookie year that he had superstar potential. I STILL think that other than Dirk and Luka in the last 20 years he had the highest-ceiling of any Mavs players to come through the door.

Why do you think he's playing in Europe? Did the injuries sap him so much that he isn't worth an NBA contract, or does he just prefer it there, or what? I thought he was out of the game completely and was pretty surprised to learn that he's still playing professionally. Super weird arc, to me.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Totally admit that he hasn't shown a thing yet at this level. My faith has been tested, for sure. Like I said though, I just have a feeling. I also once had a feeling that Antoine Wright was going to seize the Mavericks' swing position and go to the next level, so what the hell do I know?

I go back and forth on Terry but he was always clearly the biggest project out of the youngins so I'm just going to watch (hopefully we'll get some Legends highlights next season when that's a thing again).  I also think the Burke signing made it clear that they expected this to take at least 2 to 3 seasons to see what they have.

[ItsGoTime]

Here's the interview. JG talk starts at the 2:40 mark.

https://youtu.be/XSAICdGX98o

I get what both KL and Mavsluvr are saying, and I don't discount it at all. It's just another way of believing to be best (which is what we all want for the team) after seeing it done for a long time.

Yes, I agree that a constant beatdown of all the mistakes, miniscule or not, can be tiresome. I will say, it's much harder to make a case of where the team needs improvement if you don't have these conversations when evidence appears. 

Also, we could all just agree and say the Mavs have no flaws, but I suspect that would make your reasonable arguments the insane ones!

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Why do you think he's playing in Europe? Did the injuries sap him so much that he isn't worth an NBA contract, or does he just prefer it there, or what? I thought he was out of the game completely and was pretty surprised to learn that he's still playing professionally. Super weird arc, to me.

He got a couple workouts after his contract ran out for us and I think that if he kept pushing he would have found a spot but he's been great overseas.  Has won a couple player of the weeks and started on teams that went to their final fours and stuff, I think once he got comfortable there he just never gave the NBA another thought (I have nothing to verify that last statement but I want to believe that's the case).

This is from this month (still playing with Shane Larkin over there).  I hear we need another playmaker next to Luka!....

[StepBackJay]

In terms of rookie PT, I am not worried ab game PT so much, altho I do like it when we see Green especially and he looks good. Remember a lot is happening off screen. PT is a big carrot Rick can use to make sure guys are doing what they're supposed to every day. This includes work ethic around practice, weight training, film study, working with assistant coaches one on one, etc.. I am sure some guys are more engaged than others. I trust Rick knows what to do to bring these guys along. I honestly trust him more than I do Donnie most days.

[KillerLeft]

Yes, I agree that a constant beatdown of all the mistakes, miniscule or not, can be tiresome. I will say, it's much harder to make a case of where the team needs improvement if you don't have these conversations when evidence appears. 

Also, we could all just agree and say the Mavs have no flaws, but I suspect that would make your reasonable arguments the insane ones!

Hey, sorry if my comments came across as pointed. I didn't mean them that way, and certainly not towards you, but maybe the tone was off. Tone is difficult in this medium (at least for me, sometimes). 

I think disagreement can be and usually is the source of great discussion, which is 95% of the fun of this place. I'm not meaning to suggest that all complaints are invalid or excessive, nor am I saying the team has no flaws. IDK, I guess I'm mostly talking about the doom and gloom "sky is falling" types. There's a difference between 1) following a basketball team so seriously that certain things frustrate you when you feel they're holding the team back and 2) deciding that the team is stupid, inept and pointless and then turning the details of anything they do into an excuse to rail against them in "public." 

We've all had our moments of #2 over the years, tbh, but most of us don't maintain residency there. I don't understand those who do. If I really believed there was no hope, I'd simply stop being a Mavs fan.

[fifteenth]

The announcer called him Roddy Buckets! Wasn't there someone around here that called him that?

[StepBackJay]

Time to let Roddy B rest in peace.

[ItsGoTime]

If I really believed there was no hope, I'd simply stop being a Mavs fan.

Yep! Hey, I I respect you in the morning, I promise! 

No, I've read enough of you to not take things personally with you esp. 

In all honesty, I've done a TON more of that with all posters much better than I have when I first started posting with this community. I used to be a much bigger hot head and into name calling and every comment was a slight at me. Now, all comments are slights at me, but I don't care!

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Time to let Roddy B rest in peace.

Sorry, had to get it out of my system, didn't mean to derail.