2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[cjeter24]

Tim McMahon was on The Fan earlier and said the Mavs arent convinced about Porzingis long term but they absolutely couldn't trade him now.  HIs value around the league is low.  At least there's hope with KP.  You wouldnt get a star in return for him.  No chemistry between KP and Luka either.  Every time KP has a good game, he mentions how the ball actually moved around tonight.

Hawks will "bite the bullet" and match any offer sheet for Collins instead of letting an asset walk for nothing.  

The show hosts didnt ask him a follow up about any sign and trade possibilities for Collins.  

Gotta think that's what the Mavs are hoping for with all the Collins chatter.  My head hurts trying to figure out how we'd sequence/structure that sign and trade to try and maximize the most talent.

I'm just trying to figure out if it's going to be a fairly simple summer.  Sign JRich and THJ into cap space.  Have full MLE to spend.  Or if it's going to be a ton of moving pieces.

If the Mavs manage to land a guy this summer... I think the play will be a 3 team trade with THJ going somewhere for something to send to that team. 
Mavs send THJ to third team and whatever young asset needed to the team that we are getting their FA. 
FA's team gets whatever young asset and whatever asset for said player. 


I think Mavs really want Collins this summer personally. They want a forward bad dating back to the draft when they offered the green and Terry picks for covington. They might have interest in Lauri. 

If there is any truth to them not being sold on KP.... Collins is the perfect get. He'll be able to play next to him and if they trade KP later, he'll be able to replace him and be a smaller center. Lauri isn't as good but he's not bad.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

No chemistry means basketball wise, not that KP and Luka hate each other.

[Branduil]

KP isn’t written in pen in this teams future. Obvious issues with him and Luka. It never made any sense to invest any more in this team until all of that is officially cleared up. We’re stuck in a holding pattern. It’s just the facts of life. The signs have been there awhile now

I think this is the biggest issue for the Mavs right now. It's hard to build around a core if you're not convinced you have a solid core with Luka and KP. I think the other issue is not wanting to bid too high on someone like Fournier, who, while good, fills the same niche as THJ but with maybe worse defense.


It does seem like they're setting up to offer a max to Collins, but as I've said before, I don't see the Hawks actually letting him go.

No matter what we need KP to stay healthy and play well in the postseason. This is necessary whether he stays or goes.

[cjeter24]

I can be talked into the idea that one of them won’t be back. It seems like you assume that Richardson would be the choice to stay. I would be surprised if the Mavericks feel that way today… Maybe by the end of the season.

Yeah I believe THJ is the guy gone. I've gone back and forth on it. 
But I think THJ has more value and arguably the better player but clearly worse on defense. 

If they really planned on him being back I don't think he's off the bench instead of DFS or Kleber. He said he believes he's a starter multiple times and while his attitude his good I don't think he likes being off the bench. I just have never gotten the vibe that's his end game. But he's a team player and will do it for now. 

I also think THJ's market will be much higher than Richardson. I'd suspect JR will get a deal somewhere around his current deal to 15 mill. I think THJ is getting 20 mill. It's a brutal market this summer overall and the shooting is very weak. 

I'm completely good with bringing them both back at this point. But I really don't see it happening. It's been my vibe from the minute we trade for Richardson.

[ClutchDirk]

I agree with everything Tyler has been saying 100%...

[cjeter24]

No chemistry means basketball wise, not that KP and Luka hate each other.

I mean unpopular opinion alert... But Luka is a ball hog at times and can tend to over dribble trying to do everything himself. I think it's Luka still learning and improving and not some Westbrook level problem. On top of that Luka and Brunson are the only guys who can actually penetrate the defense and actually break it down a bit. So by nature of our roster issues, Luka is forced to do it all and the ball will stop moving.

We are a jump shooting team big time. And the only scoring opportunities we create as a team is open shots. Some of the shooters namely THJ will blow by the closeouts when they happen and get in the lane. But he's not doing that himself in a normal possession. 

So basically KP is primarily  a post up and spot up shooter. He's not a great roll man. We don't have one. and we are lacking penetrating guards. 

I think when we address that, chemistry will really start to come as the ball will move much better when the defense is getting broken down by consistent penetration. I think at that point KP is going to be getting 20-25 every single night because he's going to be getting much easier shots.

TLDR I think the roster issues are the reason the basketball chemistry is off.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

I mean unpopular opinion alert... But Luka is a ball hog at times and can tend to over dribble trying to do everything himself. I think it's Luka still learning and improving and not some Westbrook level problem. On top of that Luka and Brunson are the only guys who can actually penetrate the defense and actually break it down a bit. So by nature of our roster issues, Luka is forced to do it all and the ball will stop moving.

We are a jump shooting team big time. And the only scoring opportunities we create as a team is open shots. Some of the shooters namely THJ will blow by the closeouts when they happen and get in the lane. But he's not doing that himself in a normal possession. 

So basically KP is primarily  a post up and spot up shooter. He's not a great roll man. We don't have one. and we are lacking penetrating guards. 

I think when we address that, chemistry will really start to come as the ball will move much better when the defense is getting broken down by consistent penetration. I think at that point KP is going to be getting 20-25 every single night because he's going to be getting much easier shots.

TLDR I think the roster issues are the reason the basketball chemistry is off.

 

Luka is 2nd in the NBA among full time starters in average dribbles per touch and 2nd in the NBA in average seconds per touch.    There's a lot of standing around and watching Luka dribble.

[KillerLeft]

TLDR I think the roster issues are the reason the basketball chemistry is off.

Yeah, the record-breaking offense really took a hit when Powell’s achilles snapped.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Yeah, the record-breaking offense really took a hit when Powell’s achilles snapped.

And when DoDo's 3 point shot stopped falling combined with the dropoff from Curry to JRich.     When you can't make teams pay for throwing bodies at Luka, things get clogged up quick.

[cow]

Yeah, the record-breaking offense really took a hit when Powell’s achilles snapped.

Why you got to make me sad?

---

And when DoDo's 3 point shot stopped falling combined with the dropoff from Curry to JRich.     When you can't make teams pay for throwing bodies at Luka, things get clogged up quick.

Blame @"mavsluvr", he mentioned on a broadcast around the ASB what a tear DoDo had been on shooting the ball and ever since then DFS starting putting high school 3PT arc umpf on his NBA 3PT shooting.

[Mavs03]

John Collins will be Dallas' #1 target when free agency opens this summer.  I think Dallas will offer him the max or close to the max.  Atlanta offered him 4 years 90 million earlier this year and Collins said no.  They have Okongwu as a potential replacement, although he's had a terrible rookie year.  Atlanta put themselves in a huge bind when they signed Bogdanovic, Gallinari, and Dunn to a combined 43 million annually.  What a wasted investment.  They did unload Rondo today, but their salary cap situation is a mess.  And Trae Young's (2022) and Deandre Hunter's (2023) contracts are coming up very soon.  I just don't see Atlanta giving Collins a near max contract.  So either they don't match or we do a sign and trade.

[Kammrath]

He's not a great roll man. We don't have one.

This is the biggest on-court culprit offensively.

Luka desperately needs a roll man....

[cow]

This is the biggest on-court culprit offensively.

Luka desperately needs a roll man....

What's a max contract offer to JC look like?  I asked before so apologies if someone answered, but if he gets popped again can you protect yourself using contract language?

[HanspardShowerVoice]

I think what the Hawks do with Collins depends a lot on the playoffs.  As has been pointed out, they're already getting up on the cap and they still got to max out Trae.  If they lock in Collins at Max, that's a wrap.  That's your team, for better or worse.   If they make it a few rounds into the playoffs, you can talk yourself into the idea that it's a young team that has upside yet to reach with continuity.  If they struggle down the stretch and get steam rolled in the first round and look a billion miles away from actually contending, they can't lock that in as a franchise foundation for the next 4 years.

[cow]

I think what the Hawks do with Collins depends a lot on the playoffs.  As has been pointed out, they're already getting up on the cap and they still got to max out Trae.  If they lock in Collins at Max, that's a wrap.  That's your team, for better or worse.   If they make it a few rounds into the playoffs, you can talk yourself into the idea that it's a young team that has upside yet to reach with continuity.  If they struggle down the stretch and get steam rolled in the first round and look a billion miles away from actually contending, they can't lock that in as a franchise foundation for the next 4 years.

They've got draft capital if they want to get off of Gallo and/or Bogdan.  Didn't Orlando get a chunky TPE today?

[Kammrath]

What's a max contract offer to JC look like?

I think 4 yrs/$125M, starting at ~$28M/yr.

Hawks offered him 4 yrs/$90M.

[F Gump]

What's a max contract offer to JC look like?  I asked before so apologies if someone answered, but if he gets popped again can you protect yourself using contract language?

Collins' max starting salary will be $28.1M. That's the cap room you would have to have, or the salary amount you would have to match in a trade, to give him a max deal.

The limit for the Mavs (or another team trying to get him from ATL, limited to 4 yrs and 5% raises), comes out to $120.8M over 4 years.
The limit for ATL (limited to 5 yrs and 8% raises), comes out to $163M over 5 years.

[cow]

Collins' max starting salary will be $28.1M. That's the cap room you would have to have, or the salary amount you would have to match in a trade, to give him a max deal.

The limit for the Mavs (or another team trying to get him from ATL, limited to 4 yrs and 5% raises), comes out to $120.8M over 4 years.
The limit for ATL (limited to 5 yrs and 8% raises), comes out to $163M over 5 years.

[Branduil]

Something I thought of with this summer: let's suppose that KP has a good postseason, stays healthy, but wants out. Let's suppose that Golden State thinks Klay will be healthy, and they want to take one more shot. Let's suppose Minny gets the 4th/5th pick. And let's suppose Atlanta doesn't want to pay Collins, and they don't think their current team is good enough for its payroll. They could work out a 3-team trade something like:

GOLDEN STATE GETS:
-KP
-Bogdan

ATLANTA GETS:
-Wiseman
-Wiggins
-Powell
-Minny pick

DALLAS GETS:
-Collins
-Capela

Golden State gets one more chance, Atlanta adds high-quality young talent while saving some money, and the Mavs get a new frontcourt.

[SamStetz]

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/...72578?s=20