2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Tyler]

Brunson should be off limits on any rental. The fish lowry rumors seem ridiculous(par for the course for fish)

I totally agree about Brunson. But the Lowry note is from Stein -- Fish is just the messenger.

[dynamicalVoid]

Gordon for 38 tonight.  7 for 8 on threes.

[HAguiar95]

KP + Brunson + Green +'25 DAL 1st + '27 DAL 1st (we would need to remove protections on the '23 1st we gave NYK) + 22, 24 and 26 swaps. Is the best I feel we can offer to a team for another star.

for 

Beal, Lopez (WAS)

or 

Brown, Theis (BOS)


Is this an overpay, fair offer or not enough?

[Hypermav]

https://sircharlesincharge.com/2021/03/2...celtics/3/

Josh Green, Josh Richardson and James Johnson for Lowry

I would do that so fast.

[Dahlsim]

Josh Green, Josh Richardson and James Johnson for Lowry

I would do that so fast.

So fast heads would spin. 

[DanSchwartzgan]

https://sircharlesincharge.com/2021/03/2...celtics/3/

Josh Green, Josh Richardson and James Johnson for Lowry

I would do that so fast.

Most would.  We aren't really giving up anything of great value here.  Unfortunately, any Philly deal involving Thybulle is probably better than this (unless Toronto wants to send him out of conference).

I'm all for Lowry, but there are a couple of warts here.  1. His game has slipped a bit.  Still a mile better than JRich.  2. It is a short term solution.  Yeah, he helps you this season and maybe next.  Beyond that?  And, what kind of deal does he get this summer?  Multi-year?  Large one year deal with a team option for a second?  It kicks the can down the road and creates a hole later.  I will say that a 25/27 pick combo will be more valuable two years from now than they are today.  But, it won't be easy to create a salary match for some big future deal with KP, Lowry and Luka all making big money.

[omahen]

I think Lowry provides way more than his stats. He makes us legit. If you get Lowry that is a clear sign you want to contend. Same as Phoenix did with Paul. Lowry is extremely respected around the league and he might help bring good vets for that MLE or less. He brings toughness and vet leadership. 

If Mavs want to contend, picks and non playing rookies are worthless imho. I would basically like to keep our core 7 and add Lowry with DFS being the main minutes loser. Johnson and Powell would form the salary match with Powell being shipped somewhere else if needed.

[Mavs2021]

I think Lowry provides way more than his stats. He makes us legit. If you get Lowry that is a clear sign you want to contend. Same as Phoenix did with Paul. Lowry is extremely respected around the league and he might help bring good vets for that MLE or less. He brings toughness and vet leadership. 

If Mavs want to contend, picks and non playing rookies are worthless imho. I would basically like to keep our core 7 and add Lowry with DFS being the main minutes loser. Johnson and Powell would form the salary match with Powell being shipped somewhere else if needed.

If I'm going for Lowry now I need a Pax solution , I mean a Rex collusion. I ask them to talk with each other and figure out how much the two of them are willing to sacrifice in the summer for this: Lowry 20, Luka  10, DeRozan 30, Kleber 10, Porzingis 30, DFS 4, Brunson 2, WCS 3. Honestly that should be our plan anyway. Let them collude and agree to come here, then clean out Johnson,THJ, Powell, Burke,Richardson, Iwundu,Green.

[StepBackJay]

I'd love Lowry if you can get him. We will be in line behind Miami who will get whoever they want. And that's if he doesn't stay with Toronto.

[StepBackJay]

Most would.  We aren't really giving up anything of great value here.  Unfortunately, any Philly deal involving Thybulle is probably better than this (unless Toronto wants to send him out of conference).

I'm all for Lowry, but there are a couple of warts here.  1. His game has slipped a bit.  Still a mile better than JRich.  2. It is a short term solution.  Yeah, he helps you this season and maybe next.  Beyond that?  And, what kind of deal does he get this summer?  Multi-year?  Large one year deal with a team option for a second?  It kicks the can down the road and creates a hole later.  I will say that a 25/27 pick combo will be more valuable two years from now than they are today.  But, it won't be easy to create a salary match for some big future deal with KP, Lowry and Luka all making big money.

The thing is you are giving up Green (who has questionable worth for sure) for a FA in Lowry who could go anywhere in a few months. I think if Mavs did a deal like that it would be a quiet admission that they already think Green is a bust.

[Kammrath]

RE: Folks wanting 35 year old Lowry

[cow]

RE: Folks wanting 35 year old Lowry

He's a very young 35.

[StepBackJay]

RE: Folks wanting 35 year old Lowry

Kamm you always want these sub-30 guys but look they aren't always available. A good player is a good player. You aren't signing Lowry to a 9 year contract so don't worry about it.

[KillerLeft]

Kamm you always want these sub-30 guys but look they aren't always available. A good player is a good player. You aren't signing Lowry to a 9 year contract so don't worry about it.

I can't speak for Kamm, but MY thinking is that:

A) The Mavs aren't winning this year or next. 

B) That's about the window of expected positive contribution for Lowry.

C) At the end of that window, such a deal would result in the team being exactly where it is now, only without the benefit of whichever assets were given up to acquire Lowry. For example, if Brunson is outgoing, I think it's really likely that he'll be a better player in two years than Lowry is in two years. 

It just seems like a "win now" move that shouldn't be made for a team that clearly isn't close enough to make such a move. Building for the future seems so much more logical to me from the team's current point on their journey. It's nothing against Lowry, the player, whatsoever.

[cow]

I can't speak for Kamm, but MY thinking is that:

A) The Mavs aren't winning this year or next. 

B) That's about the window of expected positive contribution for Lowry.

C) At the end of that window, such a deal would result in the team being exactly where it is now, only without the benefit of whichever assets were given up to acquire Lowry. For example, if Brunson is outgoing, I think it's really likely that he'll be a better player in two years than Lowry is in two years. 

It just seems like a "win now" move that shouldn't be made for a team that clearly isn't close enough to make such a move. Building for the future seems so much more logical to me from the team's current point on their journey. It's nothing against Lowry, the player, whatsoever.

Agreed.  If we want older, expensive players we should be trading our expiring contracts for undesirable contracts to try to build up the war chest.  It's too bad Houston doesn't have the assets to make Wall worth while.  Kevin Love might be a candidate as his situation in Cleveland is really odd.  Still not sure you could milk enough assets to make it worthwhile.

[TXBamanut]

We've moved past the "game changing player" added to the team when everyone was geared for it, and we've all kept "next man upping" the available players to add, and now we have passed the threshhold of players we'd all expected to be able to get.

Some people aren't reacting well and it's kind of like a 3am rose-colored glasses moment looking at that girl at the bar that there is NO WAY you'd EVER had gone out with, but since it's closing time, and there's no one else, she starts to look better.

I'm not looking at Kyle Lowry like that from a trade standpoint...got to have some self-respect...nope, nope, nope.  

[StepBackJay]

I can't speak for Kamm, but MY thinking is that:

A) The Mavs aren't winning this year or next. 

B) That's about the window of expected positive contribution for Lowry.

C) At the end of that window, such a deal would result in the team being exactly where it is now, only without the benefit of whichever assets were given up to acquire Lowry. For example, if Brunson is outgoing, I think it's really likely that he'll be a better player in two years than Lowry is in two years. 

It just seems like a "win now" move that shouldn't be made for a team that clearly isn't close enough to make such a move. Building for the future seems so much more logical to me from the team's current point on their journey. It's nothing against Lowry, the player, whatsoever.

I am not advocating giving up assets for Lowry outside of a 2nd round pick and expiring contracts. He is high on my list for guys to look at this offseason.

[Kammrath]

I am not advocating giving up assets for Lowry outside of a 2nd round pick and expiring contracts.

I see JR and JG both as assets...I am not interested in giving up either for Lowry. If James Johnson is all I give up, then fine. But no on JR and JG for me.

[KillerLeft]

I am not advocating giving up assets for Lowry outside of a 2nd round pick and expiring contracts. He is high on my list for guys to look at this offseason.

Well, it's definitely a MORE attractive proposition if you're not giving up anything of value to get him, I'll grant you that. 

However, whose minutes does he take, and would we be sorry someone younger didn't get those minutes in 2-3 years, when it's actually time to be good? I strongly suggest that yes, we would be sorry.

[StepBackJay]

Well, it's definitely a MORE attractive proposition if you're not giving up anything of value to get him, I'll grant you that. 

However, whose minutes does he take, and would we be sorry someone younger didn't get those minutes in 2-3 years, when it's actually time to be good? I strongly suggest that yes, we would be sorry.

Look I am not even saying any sort of Lowry trade is likely, I have just said for some time that I like him as a player. If Lowry winds up on the Mavs at least one of J Rich or THJ are out and I am good with that. I would like to see Lowry play next to Luka.

Youth doesn't matter, talent does. If we want youth we can play Josh Green, Tyler Bey and Tyrell Terry and lose more games. I want Mavs to have a 2nd guy besides Luka I can trust with 5 minutes to go. I wish it was KP but I don't think KP can be that 2nd guy, he probably needs to be the third option.