2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1372226649413054472

Thanks Brad.

[StepBackJay]

2 Yes, JRich could both opt in and extend but (for practical purposes) it would be two separate and technically independent transactions, with the option accepted before his deadline and the extension happening after August 1. There is precedent for the Mavs doing this - they did exactly that with Powell. 

Feels like this could happen. The opt in price is 11.6M, J Rich still might be able to get more than that on the open market though.

[StepBackJay]

First round exit here we come!

[F Gump]

That seems like a weird contract then to give a 2nd round pick bc aren't most 2nd round picks RFA's when their rookie contracts run out?

Brunson definitely has a non-guaranteed 4th year. Some NBA salary websites are more reliable than others. (Hoops hype has a long history of being one of the least accurate on the details.)

There are a lot of various ways to structure a contract for a 2nd-rounder, since there is no standard contract and no cap exception provided to sign them.

If they get signed to a deal that ends after year 1, year 2, or year 3, they become a RFA if their team offers a qualifying offer. In the most extreme case, a player could be a RFA 3 times.

The Mavs signed Brunson to a 4 year deal.

In doing so, they won't get RFA rights at the end, but they did get the right to keep him for one more year at minimum salary prices (with the opportunity to waive him at no cost, if he hasn't proved worth keeping in years 1-3). The apparent thinking is that with or without RFA control, they will have to pay him market value as a free agent, so we might as well delay that as long as possible and then see if that market value salary is feasible for us. (If it won't be, having RFA control wouldn't help.)

[DanSchwartzgan]

I'll try this again. Some of you want to argue, but the above items are all accurate. If you want to think otherwise, you can, but then you would be wrong.

1 Brunson has no option and CANNOT be made a Mavs' RFA this summer. While his salary for 2021-22 is indeed non-guaranteed, that is not the same as an option. To remove the 2021-22 year salary, he would have to be waived, which means (a) all rights and ties are lost, (b) some other team could claim him off waivers, and undoubtedly would, and © if no one claimed him, he would be a UFA with no "prior team." 
2 Yes, JRich could both opt in and extend but (for practical purposes) it would be two separate and technically independent transactions, with the option accepted before his deadline and the extension happening after August 1. There is precedent for the Mavs doing this - they did exactly that with Powell. 
3 Dan, I'm not sure I followed your explanation of the mechanics of charges for empty roster slots, to know what your bottom line was. But the max amount a team with cap space can offer a FA via SNT that uses all their cap space with no players outgoing, vs a signing, is exactly the same either way. It's as simple as that.
(The mechanics of the cap charges aren't different at all in the 2 situations. I'll leave it at that, since I think I can be best understood by noting how to eat the sausage, not how it's made.)

1.  Time will tell on the option.  Some sites have it others don't.  They did the same thing with Tyrell Terry and took a club option for his 4th year.  I will admit I was working off of press reports related to Mitchell Robinson.  His contract numbers are nearly identical to Brunson's.  The reporting says there is a team option and NY is going to have to decide whether to make him RFA now or UFA in 22.  Since the sites were split on Brunson's situation, I presumed Dallas did the same thing NY did with Robinson.  It is a blunder if Dallas didn't.  My suspicion is they did since they did it with Terry.

2.  It appears you are agreeing with me and even citing an example of how it has been done before with a friendly agent (Schwartz).  Thank you.  This time it is Duffy.  We will see if he can be equally helpful to the team building process.

3.  Let me get back with you when I have more time.

[omahen]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1372253666896457741

He would be our third best big

[Kammrath]

Considering our assets, that's not really a bold prediction.

Mavs have a top 4 roster in West, yo!

[F Gump]

1.  Time will tell on the option. 

There is no option. The point YOU (and others) made to me was that Brunson's year 4 is non-guaranteed. That was correct, but that's not the same thing as an option, and it doesn't work like an option (as I explained, and as you surely understand now).

Brunson will not be a FA this summer, and you are smart enough to realize it now. Please don't try to muddy things and confuse people. That helps no one.

Terry has 3 years with a Team Option for year 4.  Maxi's final year is non-guaranteed. WCS's is a Team Option. Burke's is a Player Option. Different players, different potential, different agents, different cap thinking for Mavs, so they do different things.

[F Gump]

Feels like this could happen. The opt in price is 11.6M, J Rich still might be able to get more than that on the open market though.

Isn't him accepting his option only likely so long as his production continues to disappoint? And if he's not what you want, how desirable is it to add 3 more years onto that commitment?

We saw this same equation with Powell. There are very mixed feelings about his value on the roster. When they did the extension, many gagged and hated the idea of being stuck with him for even longer.

[StepBackJay]

Isn't him accepting his option only likely so long as his production continues to disappoint? And if he's not what you want, how desirable is it to add 3 more years onto that commitment?

We saw this same equation with Powell. There are very mixed feelings about his value on the roster. When they did the extension, many gagged and hated the idea of being stuck with him for even longer.

Right but Mavs are motivated to not accept that the trade was a failure and maybe generally think he's a good fitting piece, even if year 1 was a disappointment. He is at least a better fit than 9 mil/yr Wright was last year. 

Maybe Mavs will go in a different direction, I could just see some deal happening.

[MFFL]

Pure money trade for the Nets - it saves them a ton of Luxury Tax

Dinwiddle for WCS and Burke

[sefant]

Pure money trade for the Nets - it saves them a ton of Luxury Tax

Dinwiddle for WCS and Burke

Are we tanking? Because isn't Dinwiddie out for the season?

Not sure why WCS getting so much ""critiscm/hate"" on the internet from Mavs fans everywhere. Yes he has some dumb plays more or less every game, and those plays stick on your memory but overall he has a pretty solid season so far. Considering M. Gasol looking washed so far, and Baynes have a pretty medicore season so far, WCS + Burke for the MLE looks fine in hindsight.

Overall his impact on the floor is positive. He is 2nd in net rating on the Mavs.

[Jason Terry]

So if Tucker costs a FRP, then what does Gordon or Collins cost? 

Brad is right. We should’ve seen this coming with the playoffs including 2/3 of the league. Stand pat is likely the best move. 

The real hope would be lucking into dragic in a 3 team trade

[Tyler]

So if Tucker costs a FRP, then what does Gordon or Collins cost? 

Judging how Milwaukee appears pressured to overpay in every deal these days, I'm not so sure you can extrapolate like that. But I get your point.

It'll be interesting to see how the next week shakes out. And with the way Dallas is finally starting to really click, I think the chances of them making a big trade keep dropping with every game.

[MFFL]

Are we tanking? Because isn't Dinwiddie out for the season?

Not sure why WCS getting so much ""critiscm/hate"" on the internet from Mavs fans everywhere. Yes he has some dumb plays more or less every game, and those plays stick on your memory but overall he has a pretty solid season so far. Considering M. Gasol looking washed so far, and Baynes have a pretty medicore season so far, WCS + Burke for the MLE looks fine in hindsight.

Overall his impact on the floor is positive. He is 2nd in net rating on the Mavs.

I was just grabbing cheap contracts

Having bird rights for Dinwiddle would be a great buy low move. Besides there is chatter that he might play this year

[F Gump]

Dinwiddie - can't shoot, can't defend, major injury, looking for a big contract

Yep, sounds like an ideal Mavs kind of target!

[F Gump]

Back to the discussion about what you can do if you move Powell for cap room:

Rather than sign Collins and one of either THJ or J-Rich, you could spend it all on a max deal for Kawhi Leonard. Even keeping WCS, there's enough.

But then the rest of your spending would be limited to 3 minimum salary players , plus the room MLE on a 4th.

If he was interested, would ya?

[KillerLeft]

Back to the discussion about what you can do if you move Powell for cap room:

Rather than sign Collins and one of either THJ or J-Rich, you could spend it all on a max deal for Kawhi Leonard. Even keeping WCS, there's enough.

But then the rest of your spending would be limited to 3 minimum salary players , plus the room MLE on a 4th.

If he was interested, would ya?

As long as the Mavs could stand to deal with his uncle, sure. But, he’s a Clipper because he wanted to go home. I don’t think he’ll ever leave.

[MFFL]

Back to the discussion about what you can do if you move Powell for cap room:

Rather than sign Collins and one of either THJ or J-Rich, you could spend it all on a max deal for Kawhi Leonard. Even keeping WCS, there's enough.

But then the rest of your spending would be limited to 3 minimum salary players , plus the room MLE on a 4th.

If he was interested, would ya?

Leonard wanting to come to the Mavs?

LOL

[MFFL]

1 Luka is the future in the NBA. And I think the other players see it, and would love to be here alongside.

This is like Plan Powder - stupid to waste time daydreaming

If Leonard thought Luka was the future and wanted to be with him, why did he just walk off the court tonight? George and Luka hugged at the end of the game and George also gave him a little head rub

Leonard has no interest in the Mavs. Thinking about it is a waste of time