2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[KillerLeft]

We are! Listen, Dipo before his injury was a top SG in the league and a shoe-in all-star.

For one season. He was good for one season. I honestly don't know how that gets him to "shoe-in" status. Lebron James and Kevin Durant are "shoe-ins," not Oladipo.

[omahen]

For one season. He was good for one season. I honestly don't know how that gets him to "shoe-in" status. Lebron James and Kevin Durant are "shoe-ins," not Oladipo.

He was excellent for one season. He was good for several more. Johnson+rookies+pick is not an all star package, it is a good player package. Show me a better player you can get for that...

[KillerLeft]

He was excellent for one season. He was good for several more. Johnson+rookies+pick is not an all star package, it is a good player package. Show me a better player you can get for that...

I would honestly prefer to keep the rookies. 

I'm fine with Richardson and THJ. It's going to take more than Oladipo to get me to upset the apple cart.

[SleepingHero]

I would honestly prefer to keep the rookies.

I mean, I'd rather take the bird in the hand than 2 in the bush. We have no idea what Terry and Green are going to become. Their play hasn't necessarily suggested that they are going to become anything special either. Its early. Veerrrry early. Josh Green may become the perfect glue guy for this team next year. Its also quite possible that the Mavs trade him next offseason ala Justin Anderson, our last highly athletic supposed 3-D prospect with a broken shot.

Meanwhile Oladipo is a 2x all star, averaging over 20ppg, and is an elite PnR ball handler (90th percentile if I remember right). If you can get a guy like Dipo for basically Johnson+18+31 you do that every time and never look back.

[KillerLeft]

I mean, I'd rather take the bird in the hand than 2 in the bush. We have no idea what Terry and Green are going to become. Their play hasn't necessarily suggested that they are going to become anything special either.

They're both healthy, though. 

That's really just the bottom line for me. I don't think I'll ever be convinced that a move for Oladipo is a good one. I would sign him as a free agent for the MLE and then live with the consequences if/when he has to sit for stretches, doesn't play well or even has to retire early. But, he's going to cost more, so I'm just flat out, I suppose. 

In the BEST version of what Oladipo can be, he's still MORE damaged than Porzingis. I can't get past that.

[Kammrath]

an elite PnR ball handler (90th percentile if I remember right)

Your memory is wrong.

20-21: 34.8 percentile
19-20: 50.8 percentile
18-19: 57.1 percentile
17-18: 81.2 percentile
16-17: 56.8 percentile
15-16: 57.9 percentile

He is an average to slightly above average pick and roll ball handler for his career, with ONE good season thrown in the mix. I would actually argue that Dipo is elite at nothing. He is a solid NBA guard with one extreme outlier season where he was great.

[dirkfansince1998]

He is an average to slightly above average pick and roll ball handler for his career, with ONE good season thrown in the mix. I would actually argue that Dipo is elite at nothing. He is a solid NBA guard with one extreme outlier season where he was great.

That´s the thing with most near/borderline allstar level guys. Oladipo is a good NBA player because he has no weakness. He can defend, rebound, score in multiple ways and is a good playmaker. Above average in all categories. Same case can be made for Hayward, Van Vleet or Harris.

[KillerLeft]

That´s the thing with most near/borderline allstar level guys. Oladipo is a good NBA player because he has no weakness. He can defend, rebound, score in multiple ways and is a good playmaker. Above average in all categories. Same case can be made for Hayward, Van Vleet or Harris.

It's a decent point. I'd put Hayward a cut above the rest, now that he's healthy, but I see your point anyway. 

Oladipo's quad/knee thing just scares me soooo much. I hope the Mavs are looking elsewhere.

[omahen]

I would actually argue that Dipo is elite at nothing. He is a solid NBA guard with one extreme outlier season

Solid is quite a downplay for 20 ppg two way player who can generate plays for himself or others. JRich is a poor man Oladipo. The only real risk with him is his injury history. Other than that he is basically what we need next to Luka.

[dirkfansince1998]

It's a decent point. I'd put Hayward a cut above the rest, now that he's healthy, but I see your point anyway. 

Oladipo's quad/knee thing just scares me soooo much. I hope the Mavs are looking elsewhere.

Other option in the borderline allstar category are flawed players with one or two elite skills. Mavs don´t have the assets for the full package.

[omahen]

Oladipo's quad/knee thing just scares me soooo much.

I think we can be quite sure Mavs would do a real thorough medical check before committing to anything. Most likely they are well aware of his injury history

[SleepingHero]

Your memory is wrong.

20-21: 34.8 percentile
19-20: 50.8 percentile
18-19: 57.1 percentile
17-18: 81.2 percentile
16-17: 56.8 percentile
15-16: 57.9 percentile

Was inflating that year, so my bad.

I'm curious though, how does JRich and THJ rank as a PnR ball handler?

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the BEST version of what Oladipo can be, he's still MORE damaged than Porzingis. I can't get past that.

What is damaged about him? He had a horrible injury. I was skeptical if he could ever return to what he was, but so far this season he has gone back to a level of production of his pre-injured self.


Are you worried he will reinjure his quad tendon? It's an extremely rare injury for basketball players.

[Kammrath]

JRich is a poor man Oladipo.

Overall I think Dipo is better than JRich and THJ. Not saying otherwise. But I think JRich and THJ are better than Dipo in some areas.


I have always had three questions with Dipo since these conversations began:

1) How much would it cost to get him in a trade?

2) How much will he cost long term on a new contract?

3) Is his health worth the risk of the above two?


My personal opinion? I'm out on Dipo, but if the Mavs decide to go for him I will cheer for him to stay healthy for a LONG time.

[Branduil]

Given Fertitta's notorious cheapness, we might be able to get Oladipo without giving up too much if we're willing to take on Eric Gordon

https://tradenba.com/trades/40TZkwjh9

Also the idea of trading our 2021 pick again amuses me.

New lineup:

Luka / Burke
Oladipo / Gordon
DFS / THJ
Maxi / Tucker
KP / WCS

[SleepingHero]

Given Fertitta's notorious cheapness, we might be able to get Oladipo without giving up too much if we're willing to take on Eric Gordon

That's a pretty complicated trade. One thing I'm a bit confused about is why would HOU give up Gordon to get cap relief and then in the same trade eat Powell's contract?


Second I don't think the Mavs would want to give up on JRich so soon. I can see them cutting loose on THJ if it meant they could get PJ Tucker.

[Kammrath]

how does JRich and THJ rank as a PnR ball handler?

JRich is a consistently improving pick and roll ball handler:

20-21: 62.5
19-20: 51.1
18-19: 47.7
17-18: 43.3
16-17: 32.4

THJ is probably average to slightly above average when you take his sample sizes into consideration:

20-21: 42.6
19-20: 78.1
18-19: 90.3
17-18: 39.5
16-17: 59.2

[SleepingHero]

THJ is probably average to slightly above average when you take his sample sizes into consideration:

THJ is MUCH higher than I expected, but then again I'm sure the sample is low which can skew. 

Hmmm this makes me want to rethink Oladipo a bit. I'm still for it, but a big draw to me was his playmaking ability. He's certainly better than JRich and Dipo has had the added pressure of being the focal point of defenses, but it's not much better.

[KillerLeft]

I think we can be quite sure Mavs would do a real thorough medical check before committing to anything. Most likely they are well aware of his injury history

Of course! And, they haven’t traded for him.

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Overall I think Dipo is better than JRich and THJ. Not saying otherwise. But I think JRich and THJ are better than Dipo in some areas.

I have always had three questions with Dipo since these conversations began:

1) How much would it cost to get him in a trade?

2) How much will he cost long term on a new contract?

3) Is his health worth the risk of the above two?


My personal opinion? I'm out on Dipo, but if the Mavs decide to go for him I will cheer for him to stay healthy for a LONG time.

THIS.

[omahen]

Given Fertitta's notorious cheapness, we might be able to get Oladipo without giving up too much if we're willing to take on Eric Gordon

Very simple option for that and it actually makes me think. Johnson and THJ (plus probably a minor asset) for Oladipo and Gordon. If we throw in Green we can also get Tucker. Gordon contract is basically similar to what THJ contract will look like. His 3 pt shot dissapeared in last two seasons but he is still a scorer. Tucker would replace Johnson toughness and add better shooting.

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Of course! And, they haven’t traded for him.

Yet

[DanSchwartzgan]

I would honestly prefer to keep the rookies. 

I'm fine with Richardson and THJ. It's going to take more than Oladipo to get me to upset the apple cart.

This is where I am also.  JRich hasn't been very good.  But, until I see JRich and KP together more, I'm not ready to pass judgement.  In fact, we've not seen much of JRich with "good Luka" (as opposed to Fat Luka).

I also think Green/Terry and a future pick is WAY too much for a guy who can walk.