Luka Dealt to Lakers: Nico Harrison is a Basketball Terrorist

[mvossman]

Luka is in his 7th season. By comparison, Bird won his 3rd MVP in his 7th season, and in his 1st 9 seasons he was never lower than 4th (including 3 wins, and 4 2nds). FWIW he also made 3 All-Defense teams and finished as high as 3rd for DPOY one year. No one ever bitched about Bird's conditioning - far from it. Bird averaged over 3000 minutes per season for his first 9 seasons, averaging about 80 games per season and about 39 mpg, while playing at that MVP level.

If Luka is going to have that kind of career, he's way behind.

I don't think Luka is going to have the same career as Larry Bird, but Luka came into the league 4 years younger than Bird, so comparing them at number of seasons is maybe not completely fair.

[SleepingHero]

But OTOH, Philly gave Embiid and George max deals and they did it with an eye towards winning. Now look at them. It worked out very well for Boston.  Embiid will probably get shutdown for the rest of the season, and George has been a disaster all year. Philly is going to have to restructure their whole team, and Embiid's future is in doubt as he needs more surgery. Things don't always work out as planned. Bottom line, Dallas felt they could not win it all with Luka.

I’d rather go for it all with your own superstar and fail, than give up before really trying. Philly has had 11 years with Embiid. And they had SO many more reasons to give up on him early than we did with Luka.

Just looking at the last 4 years and thinking we couldn’t win with Luka after coming off a fresh finals berth, something Philly hasn’t come close to sniffing with Embiid in the weaker east, is lunacy.

[mvossman]

So fair, so valid. Right there with you, in a sense. 

The thing is, the guy(s) who traded him want to win. They could absolutely be wrong, but they also had the privilege(?) of watching Luka go about his day-to-day with a closeness we could never imagine. I guess it comes down to whether or not you think Harrison is just delusional or sane. Assuming there was a rational reason for this, and right or wrong, I believe there must have been, imagine how significant that rational reason must’ve been in order for him to pull this particular trigger. 

Then again, maybe I’m struggling like Steve Carell’s character in The Big Short.

I think this is what you are really stuck on.  You think they want to win (which is probably true), you know they have more knowledge than we do of the situation (definitely true) and you struggle to believe this could simply be gross incompetence.  I think there is plenty of evidence that incompetence is a strong player here, but another potential factor is Nico emotional state (which can tend to lead to bad decisions).  It sounds like Nico issues with Luka may have extended from frustration to an all out grudge.  There is also evidence that he has a high preference for guys he prior association with.  We don't see everything Nico sees, but we also don't know the mind of Nico, and I am guessing it is not completely rational.

As for potential incompetency, here are just some of the moves Nico has made (or tried to make):

In their last year of cap space, he decides to run it back signing Timmy to a big contract
He decides not to extend Brunson in the hopes he can trade him (for pennies on the dollar)
He trades a first for Christian Wood
He signs Javale McGee to a 3 year 17 mil contract with a player option and a starter role
He lets Brunson walk for nothing
He traded an unprotected 2030 pick swap for Grant Williams (which could really hurt)
He tried to trade for Kuzma, probably instead of PJ and Gafford (thank you Kuzma!)

Nobody is going to be perfect.  This stuff is hard.  But the Brunson Blunder is probably the biggest FO mistake in the NBA of the last several years.  The McGee signing was so obviously bad the moment it was done its just hard to fathom someone would do that.  And we needed the player himself to save us from the disaster that would be Kuz (I thought that would be terrible to begin with, but my god he has fallen off a cliff).  Nico has shown himself more than capable of making terrible decisions that look worse after we seem them play out.

[mvossman]

But OTOH, Philly gave Embiid and George max deals and they did it with an eye towards winning. Now look at them. It worked out very well for Boston.  Embiid will probably get shutdown for the rest of the season, and George has been a disaster all year. Philly is going to have to restructure their whole team, and Embiid's future is in doubt as he needs more surgery. Things don't always work out as planned. Bottom line, Dallas felt they could not win it all with Luka.

Embiid is a 7 foot guy in his 30s with injury history and George is 34.  Not sure its valid to compare those guys with a 25 year old.

[BigDirk41]

I don't think I'll ever get past the Luka trade. You can say I'm not a real fan or what not, but I've been a huge fan since the late 80s. I've been through the lows and highs of this franchise and then trading Luka in the way they did has killed my desire to support this team. I still follow the box scores and read the board, but I don't watch the games anymore and have no desire to. I don't know if that will change or not. I hate Nico and the new owners with a passion. I hope Luka wins a title this year and many more. I hope he sticks it to this franchise like nothing ever seen before. I'm not going to be a Lakers fan, but I'll always be a Luka fan. There was a right way to trade him if that had to be done. This clearly wasn't the right way and it has backfired like no other trade in sports history. Luka had his warts, but he was our superstar and truly wanted to be a Maverick.

[KillerLeft]

I think this is what you are really stuck on.  You think they want to win (which is probably true), you know they have more knowledge than we do of the situation (definitely true) and you struggle to believe this could simply be gross incompetence.  

Yes, that is all true in my case. 

But honestly, I'm also stuck on really getting sick of Luka's act, even from a fan's POV. I honestly don't think he's ever going to quite be the guy I thought he'd be after his first couple of seasons, and I was trending towards that conclusion long before this trade ever happened. 

I realize there are two separate conversations here, and that you're the type who's still upset over the Porzingis to WAS deal, while I was fine with that and would never think of it if you stopped bringing it up. Getting value is important to me, but I just don't think we have the pulse of what's real with that as well as we think we do. It's fun to debate, don't get me wrong. 

I'm just not likely to watch Luka's career from a far with much jealousy, I don't think. I know he'll have soaring highs at times, and probably against the Mavericks, but I was getting pushed out of enjoying the team gradually with the direction they were headed. I HATED this offense, basically from the second Carlisle left. I LOVED 230 lb Luka taking people off the dribble and getting into the paint at will because Carlisle had pulled all the defenders out, schematically. These past few seasons had been a tough watch for me.

[KillerLeft]

I’d rather go for it all with your own superstar and fail, than give up before really trying. 

This is the part that stings, yeah. Not the first time I've said it, but it doesn't feel like there are any actual Mavericks players on the team at the moment. Hopefully, I'll feel differently in time, but it's really kind of just Lively and maybe PJ Washington left for me.

[mvossman]

Would you give a supermax deal to a top 3 defender who gives you absolutely nothing offensively?

I think that is what Nico is thinking if it is about money. Maybe his philosophy is to have a roster full of two way players who can bring g it on both ends than to commit a huge part of the cap to someone who would require several defensive e only players who give almost nothing offensively.

It does make me wonder if the thinking might have been different if Herb Jones would have been healthy and we would have been able to acquire him.

I don't think this is a valid comparison.  Elite offensive creation is the rarest and most valuable trait from an on court impact standpoint, and its not close.  There is a reason offense gets paid more than defense.  The advanced stats have Luka as top 5 player during regular season and top 2 (Jokic) in the playoffs.  I also feel like his defensive liabilities tend to get exaggerated.  He is not a good perimeter defender and his lapses on getting back are annoying, but he is a very strong defensive rebounder, and good disrupter (high steal rate) and he can use his size to defend.  If he were the complete nothing that some folks make him out to be, his defensive on/off numbers would be much worse than they are.

[mvossman]

This is the part that stings, yeah. Not the first time I've said it, but it doesn't feel like there are any actual Mavericks players on the team at the moment. Hopefully, I'll feel differently in time, but it's really kind of just Lively and maybe PJ Washington left for me.

It will be even harder to feel connected to this team if Nico sends out PJ and half the team for KD, and because I think that might happen makes it harder for me to get invested in the current iteration.

[FireNicoHarrison]

 These past few seasons had been a tough watch for me.

We played the WCF and the Finals in 3 years... I can immagine how tough it was.
Never happened before in Mavs history.

Enjoy watching a good team who has second round PO as best case scenario.

[Scott41theMavs]

It will be even harder to feel connected to this team if Nico sends out PJ and half the team for KD, and because I think that might happen makes it harder for me to get invested in the current iteration.

No PJ, MC, or DL in a KD deal. No, no, no.

[michaeltex]

In a way, it was all 3 imo....
1 Is he gone because he didn't sign an extension --- an extension for the number they felt was the right one? Yes
2 they had no intention of signing him to a large contract --- Yes
3 or because they traded for a better player? --- Probably, but at least a player they felt was worth having on their payroll, who could fit in that $9M or so salary slot
I think there was also reason 4 - they felt Christie was a better player, who would be replacing Grimes and getting his minutes, at about half the expected price for Grimes.

They are working to stay under the Apron 2 line, and it's going to be hard. The MLE of 14M would essentially make it impossible, so they proactively found a player they like who can be on the payroll for 5M less. Hopefully Martin will also prove to be a better player than Grimes.

I think the dedication/conditioning issues just kept getting bigger and bigger the longer things went on and it is apparent that Luka's private team was not helping him meet expectations. So you can imagine the reluctance to laying out $70MM/yr for a player that feels more and more like the second coming of James Harden. 

On twist I haven't seen discussed is: what if Luka's team was signaling they were looking for a trade kicker or no-trade-clause in the next contract? It would be hard enough to move a super max contract, but adding another 10% or having to get the player's approval before pursuing a deal may have been a bridge too far. Haven't heard it said anywhere, just was wondering if there was another facet to this diamond.

[DallasMaverick]

I don't think I'll ever get past the Luka trade. You can say I'm not a real fan or what not, but I've been a huge fan since the late 80s. I've been through the lows and highs of this franchise and then trading Luka in the way they did has killed my desire to support this team. I still follow the box scores and read the board, but I don't watch the games anymore and have no desire to. I don't know if that will change or not. I hate Nico and the new owners with a passion. I hope Luka wins a title this year and many more. I hope he sticks it to this franchise like nothing ever seen before. I'm not going to be a Lakers fan, but I'll always be a Luka fan. There was a right way to trade him if that had to be done. This clearly wasn't the right way and it has backfired like no other trade in sports history. Luka had his warts, but he was our superstar and truly wanted to be a Maverick.

I think it's really healthy to express your pain and disappointment this way.

For a little while.

[khaled1987]

I'm just not likely to watch Luka's career from a far with much jealousy, I don't think. I know he'll have soaring highs at times, and probably against the Mavericks, but I was getting pushed out of enjoying the team gradually with the direction they were headed. I HATED this offense, basically from the second Carlisle left. I LOVED 230 lb Luka taking people off the dribble and getting into the paint at will because Carlisle had pulled all the defenders out, schematically. These past few seasons had been a tough watch for me.

So, you have a problem with Kidd and you hate Luka for it?

[DL2RimRocker]

This is the part that stings, yeah. Not the first time I've said it, but it doesn't feel like there are any actual Mavericks players on the team at the moment. Hopefully, I'll feel differently in time, but it's really kind of just Lively and maybe PJ Washington left for me.

Well it crossed my mind that Nico is just clearing out what Donnie acquired.
I think Powell is the only current Mav who was here before Nico.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Yes, that is all true in my case. 

But honestly, I'm also stuck on really getting sick of Luka's act, even from a fan's POV. I honestly don't think he's ever going to quite be the guy I thought he'd be after his first couple of seasons, and I was trending towards that conclusion long before this trade ever happened. 

I realize there are two separate conversations here, and that you're the type who's still upset over the Porzingis to WAS deal, while I was fine with that and would never think of it if you stopped bringing it up. Getting value is important to me, but I just don't think we have the pulse of what's real with that as well as we think we do. It's fun to debate, don't get me wrong. 

I'm just not likely to watch Luka's career from a far with much jealousy, I don't think. I know he'll have soaring highs at times, and probably against the Mavericks, but I was getting pushed out of enjoying the team gradually with the direction they were headed. I HATED this offense, basically from the second Carlisle left. I LOVED 230 lb Luka taking people off the dribble and getting into the paint at will because Carlisle had pulled all the defenders out, schematically. These past few seasons had been a tough watch for me.

I always wonder why you're a fan.  It seems the team is an outlet of negative energy for you.  Why spend this much time and energy on something you dislike?

[KillerLeft]

We played the WCF and the Finals in 3 years... I can immagine how tough it was.
Never happened before in Mavs history.

The first WCF run was fun - the team still had a young Brunson paired with their young Luka, and that team overachieved. We knew they weren't as good as GS that season. But, the system they ran seemed smart, fun and had potential. I remember defending Luka back then when he was compared to Harden. OUR version understood team basketball. 

Losing Brunson and having to spend the assets to replace him with Kyrie sucked a lot of what I was excited about out of all of this, and then seeing Luka trend farther and farther away from the parts of his game I was excited about made enjoying the team tougher for me. By the end, it was almost all injuries, yelling at the refs, midrange iso and stepback threes at too high a volume. It became about as Harden as it can get, imo. 

If he ever gets back to bubble-style Luka, I'll be into that for sure, but the numbers he has put up the past couple of seasons didn't make this offense fun for me to watch, personally. Like, at all.

[KillerLeft]

So, you have a problem with Kidd and you hate Luka for it?

Hey, at first, I DID blame Kidd. 

I think this trade kind of shows us what they think the problem was. I'm actually interested to see how this plays out, both here, in terms of offensive design and in LA, to see how Luka's style might change or not.

[KillerLeft]

Well it crossed my mind that Nico is just clearing out what Donnie acquired.
I think Powell is the only current Mav who was here before Nico.

Yeah, for sure. Didn't phase me when the logic was to put the right pieces around Luka. Made all the sense in the world. Now, with the rug pulled, the turnover seems jarring, in hindsight. I have always been focused on continuity as a means for a team building chemistry, but never before really understood the effect it has on my experience as a fan. It felt like rooting for Luka was the central preoccupation for us all, and now it's tough for me to put my finger on just what the team's identity is. Without understanding that, it's tough for me to know if I even like the team. 

This will probably improve with time, however.

[mvossman]

Yeah, for sure. Didn't phase me when the logic was to put the right pieces around Luka. Made all the sense in the world. Now, with the rug pulled, the turnover seems jarring, in hindsight. I have always been focused on continuity as a means for a team building chemistry, but never before really understood the effect it has on my experience as a fan. It felt like rooting for Luka was the central preoccupation for us all, and now it's tough for me to put my finger on just what the team's identity is. Without understanding that, it's tough for me to know if I even like the team. 

This will probably improve with time, however.

It can only improve with time if they stop churning the roster.  Another big move this offseason and it will be another reset.  I have had this experience as a fan.  College basketball used to be a lot more fun before the days of one and done.  Now it seems like a completely different team every season.  It makes it much harder to get invested as a fan.