TRADE: Caleb Martin + 2030 2nd to Dallas | Grimes + PHI 2nd heads to 76ers

[mvossman]

Plus, they seem not to like him as a player as much as the board does. I get that we are free to disagree with their assessment, but sadly we are NOT free to force them to play him, or to re-sign him, regardless of anything related to the cap. 

I've actually been underwhelmed with his defense, relative to expectations (overwhelmed with pleasant surprise about his offense, to be fair), so this one doesn't bother me. I think I'll miss that Philly #2 more than Grimes, all told. 

I also like Martin a heap of a lot more than others here do, apparently. I don't hate this trade at all, just wish they'd have given a less valuable pick (if they even have one) or even GOTTEN a pick for the salary exchange. Just because Matin is cost controlled and represents safety to your team doesn't mean you're not doing Philly a favor by taking salary off of their books.

I will be curious to see if you hold onto this opinion.  I remember you having concerns with DJJ lack of offense and Caleb is a step down from Jones.  He doesn't take shots, and when he does its been at a very low 53% TS the last two years.  Low volume inefficiency is not a formula for offensive success.

[mvossman]

Another add on to this is that Caleb Martin is hated in Boston. Every time they play Boston he goes off and they can't stop him. Martin is better now, he's tough and gritty, he's currently shooting 44% from 3. And Max Christie makes Grimes dispensable.

He is shooting 38% on very low volume (less than 3 attempts on 30 minutes per game).  His play against Boston would have a lot more value if Luka was still on the team.

[KillerLeft]

I remember you having concerns with DJJ lack of offense and Caleb is a step down from Jones.  

I am about as familiar with Martin as I was with DJJ before he came here, and I already factually KNOW he has more offensive skill than DJJ does. He can bring the ball up, he can run pick and roll, he can drive, switch hands...I've seen him do all of that with my own eyes. 

But none of that matters right now, because we have no idea how anyone will look on this team now, imo. I'm just saying Martin is a useful player, and not knowing how the Mavs plan to use him (or anyone else, at this point), I'm not really that upset at acquiring him for a player who it seems more and more obvious they weren't going to even attempt to keep.

[Scott41theMavs]

After reading through this thread, it seems to me that this trade fits well with the Mavs' plans to tank for Flagg.

[loki]

After reading through this thread, it seems to me that this trade fits well with the Mavs' plans to tank for Flagg.

If we added the LA 1st could he be traded for VanVleet?

[loki]

Would have much preferred keeping/paying Grimes. Martin seems pretty mediocre. At least Grimes was an elite spot-up shooter and better POA defender.

[Scott41theMavs]

Grimes's auxiliary playmaking skills were a threat to the Mavs' desire to lose games. Martin's lack thereof is quite helpful to Silver and Nico's plan.

[mvossman]

Here is an exert from Pelton article behind the paywall. He gives Philly A grade and Mavs C- (so better than Luka trade). If this is too much to post from article, let me know. Its a fairly small sample.

Martin obviously hasn't been the problem during the 76ers' sub-.500 season, but he hasn't been a solution either. Despite shooting 38% from 3-point range -- better than his career mark of 36% -- Martin has scored with below-average efficiency because he's making just 47% inside the arc, his lowest mark since 36% as a rookie.

Defensively, Martin hasn't been a difference-maker. He's taken on relatively difficult assignments, with an opponent usage rate of 23% according to analysis of Second Spectrum tracking -- highest among all Philadelphia players -- but he hasn't impacted the team's defensive rating. A recent four-game win streak came with Martin sidelined by a hip sprain (he's due back soon) and two-way rookie Justin Edwards filling in capably in the starting lineup.

As compared to Martin, Grimes -- shooting a robust 40% from 3-point range, plus 54% inside the arc -- has simply been the better player this season. He can reduce Philadelphia's dependence on the aging duo of Eric Gordon (36) and Kyle Lowry (39 in March), who have been primary options for coach Nick Nurse at shooting guard since early Rookie of the Year frontrunner Jared McCain was lost to a season-ending meniscus injury.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

This was a report on Caleb Martin just this morning heh.  Nico operates in the shadows.

[Pompey] The Lakers, Kings, and Heat have all checked in on Caleb Martin's availability, sources tell The Enquirer. However, Martin would prefer to stay put, and the feeling is mutual.
Meanwhile, a source said the Lakers and Sacramento Kings are conducting due diligence on a potential trade for Caleb Martin. The source said the Miami Heat also contemplated reacquiring their former key role player, who’s making $8.5 million this season. He signed a four-year, $35 million contract with the Sixers on July 6 after spending the previous three seasons in Miami.

He would prefer to stay put, according to a league source. Another source said the feeling is mutual. The team is aware of the impact he could have during a playoff run.

One the Sixers beat reporters, Keith Pompey, has revealed that multiple teams have checked in on new Sixer Caleb Martin. however, neither Martin nor the Sixers want him to leave at the deadline. He still has three years after this season at $8 million per year, a steal.

This explains how Morey got us to kick in the second round pick. A conveniently timed source says that these other smart franchises like the Lakers and Miami (who wants him back! Is he the Jimmy Butler replacement Lol) really want him.

Philly doesn’t even WANT to trade him. Heck, Caleb himself doesn’t even wanna leave. 

Post trade nugget probably closer to the truth: a lot of Gms saw Martin’s deal as bad money long term. 

Don’t get me wrong, hes not a bad player. Just pretty much the definition of replacement level. Grimes is better and Naji makes the same money and is a much better player. Where are Martins minutes coming from unless another deal is coming?

[cow]

Terrible but it's hard to care given this week's other atrocity.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Terrible but it's hard to care given this week's other atrocity.

It’s all just pure comedy for me at this point. It’s the only way to cope.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Like seriously how many GMs saw the Luka deal and immediately picked up the phone to call Nico and see what they could scavenge. So far Ainge and Morey have been beneficiaries of Nico’s beneficent way with 2nd round picks. Didn’t he toss in a couple in the Porzingis trade too?

[SleepingHero]

@MikeACurtis2
Asked Jason Kidd about the decision to trade Quentin Grimes:

"I can just talk about what Q meant to us in the short stint that he was with us. He did everything we asked. He's a pro. I talked to him this afternoon. His ability defensively & then offensively to help us. We're going to miss him."

[SleepingHero]

I like to think that Nico is just going rogue, trading everyone Kidd and others like because he knows he’s outta here soon.

At least that’s one explanation for the Luka move

[dirkfansince1998]

Honestly feels like they are trying to tank the franchise value. Cutting costs and/or preparing relocation to Vegas.

[mvossman]

@MikeACurtis2
Asked Jason Kidd about the decision to trade Quentin Grimes:

"I can just talk about what Q meant to us in the short stint that he was with us. He did everything we asked. He's a pro. I talked to him this afternoon. His ability defensively & then offensively to help us. We're going to miss him."

At least somebody in this organization still has some class.

[DallasMaverick]

@MikeACurtis2
Asked Jason Kidd about the decision to trade Quentin Grimes:

"I can just talk about what Q meant to us in the short stint that he was with us. He did everything we asked. He's a pro. I talked to him this afternoon. His ability defensively & then offensively to help us. We're going to miss him."

Doing the right thing, and not trashing former players.

I worked with a manager once who explained his process in firing subpar employees: “Leave them whole”.

[Scott41theMavs]

Doing the right thing, and not trashing former players.

I worked with a manager once who explained his process in firing subpar employees: “Leave them whole”.

Why didn't they do that with Luka then?

[SleepingHero]

Why didn't they do that with Luka then?

Because Nico Harrison is a basketball terrorist

[DallasMaverick]

Why didn't they do that with Luka then?

Nico seemed pretty careful not to disparage him in the press conference.

I haven’t heard anything negative from Kidd, either.

What are you thinking about?