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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 10:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: I don't think you guys realize how good of a spot the Mavs are in right now.
Preaching to the choir on this...except for the maxed out player who isn't holding his end up.
Other than that, I think they're in great shape, with loads of good choices ahead.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Omega_Supreme - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 09:31 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: As one of the last KP supporters I would do this trade if he indeed wants out or does not play hard this playoff run...
The reward no longer outweighs the risk in regards to KP. He will always be a high maintenance player and I am not sure if that mentality meshes well with Luka. Luka is young but in basketball maturity he is far ahead of KP in terms of mindset.
The Mavs need to cut their losses and move on its becoming to much of a side story and distraction IMO.
I was done with KP back when he got hurt with the phantom back injury, the dude is overrated and not consistent enough to rely on as a championship caliber team with him as a 2nd option. Sorry if that is a bit redundant.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 10:50 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Did they have an option? He was a talented RFA and former all star. He was getting maxed whether we resigned him or not.
Yeah, I've said multiple times that I was in favor of both the trade and the extension at the time. I'm not trying to act like I knew they were headed here, I was simply one of the first to recognize the mess they're in as a result of that extension (after the fact).
In terms of what can be blamed on the front office with KP, let's talk again when training camp hits. If they see what I see, they'll take action.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 10:46 PM)Branduil Wrote: The 2019 offseason is really indefensible at this point. The only good addition was Curry and we traded him away for a bad player. We could have easily added a legit guard like Brogdon that offseason but Cuban thought he was being clever by signing a "cheaper" version in Delon Wright.
No you couldn't have added Brogdon. He cost a 1st round pick.
Mavs went after a bunch of big names who all picked much better teams. Mavs were just coming out of the lottery and Luka hadn't made a jump yet. Why would they choose Mavs over a better team?
Looking back at the free agents that year the only non role players that we weren't in on were Russell and Randle. Russell who had major character concerns that almost nobody wanted and Randle who was not remotely the level of player he is now. We were already taking a risk on a high upside player with a big deal with KP lol.
I mean criticize the Mavs all you want for not being able to get anyone major to sign here. But context matters when the Mavs were coming out of the lottery (they also didn't get that pick) with Luka not being Luka.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 10:54 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: Yeah, I've said multiple times that I was in favor of both the trade and the extension at the time. I'm not trying to act like I knew they were headed here, I was simply one of the first to recognize the mess they're in as a result of that extension (after the fact).
In terms of what can be blamed on the front office with KP, let's talk again when training camp hits. If they see what I see, they'll take action.
I don't think they are in a mess except that they don't have their #2 guy. I think quite a few teams are going to be willing to pay KP that money at his salary for what he does bring.
Everyone has pitch porks for KP because they expect him to be an all star next to Luka and he isn't. As long as we don't have a #2 it completely holds us back as a team. But getting stars isn't exactly easy, especially when you can't trade a draft pick over the next 4 drafts. I don't think KP is keeping us from a path to another star at this point.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:01 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Everyone has pitch porks for KP because they expect him to be a decent 2nd option next to Luka and he isn't.
FIFY.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Omega_Supreme - 05-29-2021
Another trade I been kicking around my head that may not get much like on here is this.
Mavs Receive
Theo Maledon
Darius Bazley
2 1st round picks
OKC Receive
Kristaps Porzingis
This is a salary dump but the Mavs would be able to hit the reset button, gain draft capital for future assets and have financial flexibility. Maledon gives you insurance to move Bronson for a possible superstar.
Frees up 30 million we could use to go after
Kyle Lowery 18 Million
Richaun Holmes 18 Million
Laure Markennan 18 Million
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 05-29-2021
Take away the idea of trading KP for Lavine or Minny pick or whatever.
There are a long list of teams that would love trade for KP. They may not give up an asset of worth but they'll trade for him with expendable contracts. And then there may be some willing to give up some value for him, with the idea they can get more out of him. I'm not positive on that one but I'm constantly amazed to see how guys are valued. The fact that the Magic got a 1st for Aaron Gordon is the ultimate proof of that. I've been a huge proponent of getting AG on the cheap and him realizing his potential here... And that's an insane trade for how good of a player he is.
Again the frustration here on KP is that he's an overpaid 3rd option that's getting paid like he's an all star.
I honestly don't think anyone would even care about that if Mavs were an obvious contender despite that.
(05-29-2021, 11:05 PM)Kammrath Wrote: FIFY.
To win a title, you got to have multiple all stars or at least close to that. 2nd option= all star IMO.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:01 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Everyone has pitch porks for KP because they expect him to be an all star next to Luka and he isn't.
I couldn't care less about that, at this point. It's beyond obvious he'll never be an all-star again. I made my peace with that over the summer. These days, I just don't want my favorite team to carry a max contract player who might be the worst defensive starter in the league at the game's most important defensive position.
I root for him every time they play - hard. I don't despise him or anything. He's just not a max contract player, ESPECIALLY at his position, where few players ARE max-worthy.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:08 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: Another trade I been kicking around my head that may not get much like on here is this.
Mavs Receive
Theo Maledon
Darius Bazley
2 1st round picks
OKC Receive
Kristaps Porzingis
This is a salary dump but the Mavs would be able to hit the reset button, gain draft capital for future assets and have financial flexibility. Maledon gives you insurance to move Bronson for a possible superstar.
Frees up 30 million we could use to go after
Kyle Lowery 18 Million
Richaun Holmes 18 Million
Laure Markennan 18 Million
Not to be rude, but y'all can keep dreaming on trades like this. I mean if you are going to have farfetched trades at least make them good like Zach LaVine coming back in the deal or a future deal. lol
Mavs will not dump KP for a big of chips or to reset or to gain picks on the hope of them turning into something more. They will need a legit starting player that can score 20ppg but be a better fit/more reliable then KP.
If they move on from KP it's a pivot and not a take out the trash situation.
Think trading KP for John Collins in a SNT. Or maybe the Wiggins + asset trade for KP.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Kammrath - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:20 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: KP for John Collins in a SNT
Long been toward the top of my list.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Long been toward the top of my list.
I would be SHOCKED if this is possible, but if it is they'd of course have to jump on it.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:17 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I couldn't care less about that, at this point. It's beyond obvious he'll never be an all-star again. I made my piece with that over the summer. These days, I just don't want my favorite team to carry a max contract player who might be the worst defensive starter in the league at the game's most important defensive position.
I root for him every time they play - hard. I don't despise him or anything. He's just not a max contract player, ESPECIALLY at his position, where few players ARE max-worthy.
That's all fair. I know for you it comes down to the $$$ whereas I don't think it is truly about that for the guys with pitchforks.
I don't think KP is the worst defensive starter in the league by a long shot. He is fully capable defender when engaged with rim protection. Heck in game 2 he had 3 blocks and 2 steals and probably about 5 more altered shots. He had a few really bad moments like falling down too. But he had at least 10 really good defense plays which far outweighed the negative ones. Bad defenders aren't capable of that.
I think a few he's got to definitely be more consistent defensively because his bad moments are really bad.
He also was a really good defender less than a year ago and I don't think the knee injury is the problem here. I've started to wonder how much of an impact losing Silas has had on him. Silas is known as a coach the players love and Rick is kind of an ahole who doesn't always get thru to players. The coaching might not be getting thru which compounds into the frustration and everything.
Bottomline tho I think KP is a diva and he's exhausting. Despite all the defending and pointing out what he does do well, I'll gladly move on from him in the right deal.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - cjeter24 - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: I would be SHOCKED if this is possible, but if it is they'd of course have to jump on it.
Why do you not think it's possible?
They wanted a guy in the KP mold last summer with Gallo and he's been hurt or bad all year (he really fits the kp mold lol).
They can get out of a contract they regret, get a much better replacement anyways and than not be forced to pay collins on a big deal.
KP/Capela front court makes a ton of sense to their playstyle and individual weaknesses.
I honestly think it's quite possible the Mavs could even squeeze out a 1st rounder from them in a deal AND improve. Win Win style deal.
Gallo and Collins SNT and a 1st for KP. They'll actually save money and create cap space this summer to improve. Mavs would probably have to throw in something more to get the 1st but I would think it would actually be possible.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - KillerLeft - 05-29-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:41 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: KP/Capela front court makes a ton of sense to their playstyle and individual weaknesses.
This is a commonly held belief about KP I see all the time, that he can and should play the 4. Maybe that was true once, but my current view is that he's too slow to play the 5, so there's no earthly way I can wrap my head around the idea of him playing the 4, at this point.
He's a center. A center who doesn't play defense and bitches when the offensive earth doesn't resolve around him, despite the fact that he actually doesn't have many ways to generate offense.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Aussiebballer - 05-30-2021
Seems like a lot of people have been let down for so long by the Mavs front office they are happy when they don’t do blatantly stupid things.
Not adding a starter the last 2 offseasons has been a failure.
If they fail to add a starter that makes THJ, DFS or Maxi a bench player then they have failed again.
I don’t care if they “tried” or were next in line.
They have a long time to talk to players, I mean talk to agents to figure out how interested they are in coming to the Mavs.
Wasting time waiting for a player like Danny Green is a massive failure in planning.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Omega_Supreme - 05-30-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:20 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Not to be rude, but y'all can keep dreaming on trades like this. I mean if you are going to have farfetched trades at least make them good like Zach LaVine coming back in the deal or a future deal. lol
Mavs will not dump KP for a big of chips or to reset or to gain picks on the hope of them turning into something more. They will need a legit starting player that can score 20ppg but be a better fit/more reliable then KP.
If they move on from KP it's a pivot and not a take out the trash situation.
Think trading KP for John Collins in a SNT. Or maybe the Wiggins + asset trade for KP.
Those trades are less realistic than the one I proposed with OKC. OKC took on Al Horford which is a worse contract than KP. A team like OKC that has to maintain the salary floor would definitely get involved. They were a dump team for multiple contracts this past season. They are years away from competing and have a ton of draft capital, it would make more sense for them to take a shot on KP than a team like Atlanta that is playoff ready.
Speaking of Atlanta, they also have a starting center and 95 million tied up for next season. They are better off letting Collins walk for nothing and using the cap space than maxing out their cap for KP.
The trade I mentioned is to free up cap room to sign guys outright which will yield better players than what you are going to likely get for KP.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - Omega_Supreme - 05-30-2021
(05-30-2021, 12:36 AM)Aussiebballer Wrote: Seems like a lot of people have been let down for so long by the Mavs front office they are happy when they don’t do blatantly stupid things.
Not adding a starter the last 2 offseasons has been a failure.
If they fail to add a starter that makes THJ, DFS or Maxi a bench player then they have failed again.
I don’t care if they “tried” or were next in line.
They have a long time to talk to players, I mean talk to agents to figure out how interested they are in coming to the Mavs.
Wasting time waiting for a player like Danny Green is a massive failure in planning.
The decisions they make seem as though they are throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks. I am not sure how much of it is hunting for stars to keep cap flexibility but they have shit the bed for years.Most superstar movement happens via the trade process. Yet, they are too dumb to build trade assets through the draft and smart signings so are left with a loop every year of the same on shit but ust a different toilet.
Remember Donnie wanted to give Nerlens Noel 17 million dollars which was straight foolery.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - StepBackJay - 05-30-2021
(05-29-2021, 11:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: Long been toward the top of my list.
I think if that happened it would be a multi team trade or asset management by the Hawks. Long term they have to figure out their cap sheet. They could probably get off a contract or two if they need to.
For Mavs I think an RFA S&T could become a possibility for the right team. Mavs can afford to overpay the next RFA in exchange for KP who is already an overpaid player.
Candidates would be Collins and Lonzo. Also not an RFA but Derozan could be a guy you overpay for in a S&T.
In each of these situations the team is giving up a player they don't really want to max out in favor of a guy who is already maxed out the at they might like better.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace | FA starts Aug 2, 5 pm - khaled1987 - 05-30-2021
(05-29-2021, 10:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: all but 1 draft pick moving forward,
And not a tradeable 1st draft until 2025 at the earliest, basically making us having ability to trade 2 1st round picks only, with earliest 4 years from now.
This makes our picks less desirable, unless you are dealing with front office that feels comfortable staying in his franchise till that time, and usually those are the type of front office that rips you apart.
This is the real cost of KP trade, it is the opportunity cost. It isn't about assets we gave for those we receive, because actually it is in our favour, but it simply took us out of the trade market for any significant player.
(05-29-2021, 10:57 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: No you couldn't have added Brogdon. He cost a 1st round pick.
Pacers agreed deal with Brogdan and Bucks was forced to negotiate. If it were the Mavs who agreed deal with him, they would have to set and the table too.