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+--- Thread: 2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived (/showthread.php?tid=682)
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RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - DanSchwartzgan - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 05:42 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Well they offered him 16-ish for an early extension. You can´t bargain a RFA, cause then his team will just match it to use him as a trade asset.
I´m also fascinated by the perception of Markkanen´s value. Is this a Euro thing?
23 year olds averaging 18/7 shooting nearly 50/40/90 will get paid for their potential alone. We gave Barnes 24 per year, averaging 11/5. Considering that we expect a post-COVID cap spike, I think that´s a fair deal.
The team that knows him best just made him a 25 minute/10 PPG bench player (LM’s numbers since Vuc’s first game). I don’t think that is the proper evaluation of him either, but I have no idea where the truth lies. I suspect Chicago wants to get value from him rather than pair him with Vuc in the starting lineup. So, there is an opportunity for someone there.
We talk about Luka being a FA magnet at some point. Between Theis and Markkanen, Chicago has two Euro’s I’d like to see here at the right price. it would be nice to see the power of Luka show itself this summer with at least one of them.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - soog - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 07:50 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The team that knows him best just made him a 25 minute/10 PPG bench player (LM’s numbers since Vuc’s first game). I don’t think that is the proper evaluation of him either, but I have no idea where the truth lies. I suspect Chicago wants to get value from him rather than pair him with Vuc in the starting lineup. So, there is an opportunity for someone there.
We talk about Luka being a FA magnet at some point. Between Theis and Markkanen, Chicago has two Euro’s I’d like to see here at the right price. it would be nice to see the power of Luka show itself this summer with at least one of them.
What does Markannen offer defensively? I become concerned having two walking toothpicks manning the middle.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - SleepingHero - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 07:24 AM)F Gump Wrote: Yep.
Too many here are hung up on the things he can't do, and fail to see all the positives he does do (as well as the steady growth in his game, that still hasn't ended).
When you appreciate him for what he can do, you realize he's important.
See Barea, JJ.
And as for whether Brunson can start in the playoffs and excel, see Barea, JJ. NBA Finals starter on NBA Champion.
My biggest issue with starting Brunson is that it will kill our already thin bench.
RC has been running an 8 man rotation since February. Pushing JRich to the bench means we have no playmaker to come in when Luka sits. Trey Burke isn't anywhere close where we need him to be and neither is JRich. That's why getting a guy like TJ McConnell is interesting imo.
We can easily start Brunson if we have a guy like McConnell to come in after 6 minutes.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - F Gump - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 08:07 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: My biggest issue with starting Brunson is that it will kill our already thin bench.
That has nothing to do with Brunson's value, and whether he is worth keeping. It's only a comment on part of the rest of the team. Losing Brunson wouldn't make the rest of the team better.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - ItsGoTime - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 08:07 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: My biggest issue with starting Brunson is that it will kill our already thin bench.Ya, that’s the big question. Ball or McConnell. Because honestly, if you get Ball, you are almost certainly losing JB to role. If you start JB and get McConnell, is your defense better? If we’re using that money you gain from letting JRich go and signing McConnell to a lower amount than you would have paid JRich to upgrade DFS or Maxi (or hopefully both), it could work out. Time would tell.
RC has been running an 8 man rotation since February. Pushing JRich to the bench means we have no playmaker to come in when Luka sits. Trey Burke isn't anywhere close where we need him to be and neither is JRich. That's why getting a guy like TJ McConnell is interesting imo.
We can easily start Brunson if we have a guy like McConnell to come in after 6 minutes.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - soog - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 08:07 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: My biggest issue with starting Brunson is that it will kill our already thin bench.
RC has been running an 8 man rotation since February. Pushing JRich to the bench means we have no playmaker to come in when Luka sits. Trey Burke isn't anywhere close where we need him to be and neither is JRich. That's why getting a guy like TJ McConnell is interesting imo.
We can easily start Brunson if we have a guy like McConnell to come in after 6 minutes.
I agree with this. We gotta keep Brunson. This team has 2 guys that can run the offense and at least 1 has to be on the floor at all times or it starts to look like a like a poorly coached high school team where everyone is either standing around or playing hero ball (I think RC is brilliant so please don’t misinterpret this as a slight against him, but rather an acknowledgement of the shortcomings of some of our players).
In the words of Teddy KGB, “Pay the man his money”
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - SleepingHero - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 08:15 AM)F Gump Wrote: That has nothing to do with Brunson's value, and whether he is worth keeping. It's only a comment on part of the rest of the team. Losing Brunson wouldn't make the rest of the team better
You're 100% correct and I accidentally replied to your post and not the one I meant to reply to.
I don't want to get rid of Brunson. Early on in the season I was a vocal detractor of his due to his poor play and was ready and willing to throw him as trade fodder. Obviously Brunson has made me eat a plate of crow 10x over, for which I am very happy for.
Brunson brings a lot to the table. He still has a lot of room to grow, namely being able to make good decisions near the end of games, but the fact that he's already so good and polished is a key reason why the Mavs are afloat right now. It also makes me petrified for next year when he's an UFA and can be money whipped by the first desperate team needing a point guard.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - michaeltex - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 05:42 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Well they offered him 16-ish for an early extension. You can´t bargain a RFA, cause then his team will just match it to use him as a trade asset.
I´m also fascinated by the perception of Markkanen´s value. Is this a Euro thing?
23 year olds averaging 18/7 shooting nearly 50/40/90 will get paid for their potential alone. We gave Barnes 24 per year, averaging 11/5. Considering that we expect a post-COVID cap spike, I think that´s a fair deal.
Anything wrong with paying your 6th man, who is key to keeping the team productive and backs up your supernova star player, like a starter?
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - SleepingHero - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 08:27 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: Ya, that’s the big question. Ball or McConnell. Because honestly, if you get Ball, you are almost certainly losing JB to role. If you start JB and get McConnell, is your defense better? If we’re using that money you gain from letting JRich go and signing McConnell to a lower amount than you would have paid JRich to upgrade DFS or Maxi (or hopefully both), it could work out. Time would tell.
I think another way we can think about this is can we use JRich to find a suitable starter that would bring what Brunson would bring? Or more realistically a bench player the quality of Brunson?
Because in that case we get the best of both worlds. I really like Ball but he isn't coming off the bench, and I don't think Ball is worth losing Brunson over. McConnell is close to what we're looking for in terms of replacing Brunson's bench role, but JRich certainly exceeds him in individual value and the Mavs would need a better return than just McConnell. Secondly they could just sign McConnell outright this summer and use JRich elsewhere.
This does throw a wrench in the "Bring the Band Back together" plan, because getting yet another guard would push one of JRich/THJ/Brunson out.
Lots of avenues the Mavs can go down depending on the team. I hope they don't f it up.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - michaeltex - 04-05-2021
Also, does Luka HAVE to accept the 150/5 extension? Could he turn it down for a bigger payday the next year?
I don't know the economics of how it all works, so I'm asking the assembled geniuses here.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - mvossman - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 08:15 AM)F Gump Wrote: That has nothing to do with Brunson's value, and whether he is worth keeping. It's only a comment on part of the rest of the team. Losing Brunson wouldn't make the rest of the team better.
I could be wrong, but I don't think any of us questioning the idea of starting Brunson long term question his value to the team. He has been great offensively lately and a crucial part of the bench.
However, it's a real shame they did not do his contract with a player option instead of non-guaranteed. If they could make him restricted this year it would be a no brainer. My concern is that next year when they will be over the cap his agent will have all the leverage and he may get really expensive. My preference would be that they offer him an extension this year (to be executed after they get everything else done) and if they can't come to an agreement, then they need to seriously explore trading him when his value will potentially be at its highest.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - mvossman - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 07:38 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: We trade Powell +Burke +Terry for Markkanen 84/4
Powell + Burke + Terry will not land you Markkanen. I doubt any team would trade for that with air. Adding a second or two probably does not even get it done. Powell and Burke are negative assets and I'm not sure Terry has much if any value right now.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - Branduil - 04-05-2021
I feel like Markkanen still gets wildly overrated because of his rookie year. You'd think the Bulls would be doing a lot better if he was that good.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-05-2021
(04-04-2021, 09:18 PM)soog Wrote: JKidd clone?
JKidd was in a different stratosphere.
Speaking of JKidd clones how about a Powell for Rubio trade? Rubio only has 1 yr at 17. Powell has 2 years at 11. Wolves have pretty high salary so it does shave off 6 mill from their 2021 commitment but they have to eat another year of Powell's money.
I am not sure if they have any interest in Powell as a player but likely Rubio will be on the move somewhere this offseason. For 1 year I am definitely interested in Rubio if I can also unload Powell's money. It's possible a third team like OKC could be involved as a facilitator.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - soog - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 09:21 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: I think another way we can think about this is can we use JRich to find a suitable starter that would bring what Brunson would bring? Or more realistically a bench player the quality of Brunson?
Because in that case we get the best of both worlds. I really like Ball but he isn't coming off the bench, and I don't think Ball is worth losing Brunson over. McConnell is close to what we're looking for in terms of replacing Brunson's bench role, but JRich certainly exceeds him in individual value and the Mavs would need a better return than just McConnell. Secondly they could just sign McConnell outright this summer and use JRich elsewhere.
This does throw a wrench in the "Bring the Band Back together" plan, because getting yet another guard would push one of JRich/THJ/Brunson out.
Lots of avenues the Mavs can go down depending on the team. I hope they don't f it up.
I value both THJ and Brunson substantially more than JRich. He hasn’t blossomed offensively next to Luka the way everyone thought he would. He can’t create his own shot. And while his defense is better than most on the team, it isn’t to the level that you sacrifice an upgrade for him.
I’m not saying he has no value, there is just little that truly differentiates him and makes him stand apart from other players in the NBA. I believe both THJ and Brunson have attributes as players that make them uniquely valuable to this team.
Maybe another way of saying it is JRich would be easier to replace than either THJ or Brunson.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - dirkfansince1998 - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 09:39 AM)mvossman Wrote: Powell + Burke + Terry will not land you Markkanen. I doubt any team would trade for that with air. Adding a second or two probably does not even get it done. Powell and Burke are negative assets and I'm not sure Terry has much if any value right now.
That´s the interesting question. How much would it cost to turn Powell + x into a useful rotation player.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - jesusshuttlesworth82 - 04-05-2021
(04-05-2021, 05:42 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: Well they offered him 16-ish for an early extension. You can´t bargain a RFA, cause then his team will just match it to use him as a trade asset.
I´m also fascinated by the perception of Markkanen´s value. Is this a Euro thing?
23 year olds averaging 18/7 shooting nearly 50/40/90 will get paid for their potential alone. We gave Barnes 24 per year, averaging 11/5. Considering that we expect a post-COVID cap spike, I think that´s a fair deal.
Well...when you google Lauri Markannen
result 1: Less of Lauri Markkanen has been more for the Bulls
result 2: Stock down: Lauri Markkanen. Chicago doesn't see him and Vucevic as a long term fit next to each other.
I've been a fan of his also but I dont really see his fit next to KP for the Mavs to invest in him heavily. If they move KP, I'd definitely be more interested. He has one of the best looking shots I've seen for a big man.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - WillE - 04-05-2021
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1379085100227338240
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - michaeltex - 04-05-2021
Getting waived as a bench player on a lottery-bound, rebuilding team sounds like a door slamming on an NBA career.
RE: ROSTER TALK: DAL with $22.7M - $34.4M in capspace this summer - StepBackJay - 04-05-2021
(04-04-2021, 09:57 PM)Branduil Wrote: TBF the Blazers have the worst defense in the league and their undersized backcourt has clearly limited their ceiling over the years. Now, that's not to say you can't start a guy as small as Brunson and be a contender, teams have obviously done it before, but the Mavs will have to decide if that's the way they're going, and soon.
Ya so I think Mavs have a better starting unit with DFS, Maxi, and KP in the other 3 spots, not to mention that Luka is not that bad. Mavs last year started DP & THJ and I think were like an average defense (someone can look up the numbers). Luka is so strong he is not a guy you can overpower on the block so that helps with some matchups. Clearly you need guys to chase smaller-quicker guards and that's why we have J Rich and DFS around. J Rich is so inconsistent all the way around I think you can get away with Brunson and still have a pretty good defense in that starting unit.