(07-08-2023, 10:48 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Wallace was regarded as one of (if not the best) the best on ball defender of the draft class. Between him and Black. He had an injury that slowed him down in the second half of the season. Most popular pre draft comp was Jrue Holiday.
Ah, well eff me then.
(07-08-2023, 10:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I get you. I just think a guy like that needs to be a focal point to get to where he needs to get. Unless the Mavs plan to play Lively big minutes right away, their two rookies just seem like guys who can help you as you bring them along. IDK, maybe I'm just drinking the kool aid. I have a feeling both guys are going to work out, though.
Oh, I have every confidence in OMax - I'll stick my neck out and say his floor is as a better, younger GK, and that's huge - especially at rookie scale as opposed to what we were paying his predecessor. Lively I think will be a very good player by year three, at least. Just don't know how long we have to wait. If it's year two, this draft was a killing for the Mavs.
I'm just concerned that if THJ is gone - and Wood certainly is - there may not be enough scoring. Given Kai's frequent unavailability and Wright's shakiness, I'm concerned that we're going to wish we had another playmaker. I like Seth - maybe he's good enough in that role.
(07-08-2023, 10:54 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, I have every confidence in OMax - I'll stick my neck out and say his floor is as a better, younger GK, and that's huge - especially at rookie scale as opposed to what we were paying his predecessor. Lively I think will be a very good player by year three, at least. Just don't know how long we have to wait. If it's year two, this draft was a killing for the Mavs.
I'm just concerned that if THJ is gone - and Wood certainly is - there may not be enough scoring. Given Kai's frequent unavailability and Wright's shakiness, I'm concerned that we're going to wish we had another playmaker. I like Seth - maybe he's good enough in that role.
Sorry, who is GK? I'm dumb.
I share your concerns about losing THJ - I'm as high on Hardy as the next guy, but I'm not sure he's ready to shoulder the main bench scoring job every night just yet...at least for a winning team. I would only trade Hardaway if I found a very good deal, and I hope the reason he's still here is that the Mavs feel the same way. Everyone keeps saying "I'm sure the Mavs would've preferred to move THJ, not Bullock"...NOT ME. Bullock not being on this team is one of my favorite aspects of the summer.
(07-08-2023, 10:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry, who is GK? I'm dumb.
DFS - God King.
In yet another W for me, I proclaimed that the Mavs must find a way to get OMax. You will soon realize his floor is DFS and his ceiling is Draymond with a better 3 ball.
The best thing for the Mavs in this game was that even though Wallace, who is the real deal, mostly lit them up, the one time the Mavs seemed to control him was when OMax was on him. OMax also guarded Holmgren effectively from time to time. He has the making of a versatile 3 and D guy who can guard every position. I can think of very few players who can do that. The Mavs need to be open to allowing him to earn 20-25 minutes per game this season. Lively, on the other hand, may need to spend some time in the G League, like Hardy last season. I think he’ll be a legit rotation big, but he’s a little more awkward than I expected and had almost no touch or aggression. Maybe we’ll see more force on offense in the next games. I loved his attitude in the post game interviews. Great defensive instincts, but he’ll have to do something else to be viable in the NBA and will need minutes to develop and build confidence. Overall, even though they lost, the team looked much better in terms of structure than last season’s summer league team. Props to the coach.
I need to see Lively in a preseason game at least before I will have any clue where he is at. I think summer league is a terrible place for a player who needs to be set up by others.
(07-08-2023, 11:54 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]I need to see Lively in a preseason game at least before I will have any clue where he is at. I think summer league is a terrible place for a player who needs to be set up by others.
You're doing summer league wrong. This is what you say when a player looks lost. If/when they do anything remotely right, you're supposed to proclaim them a future hall of famer.
(07-08-2023, 04:26 PM)JamesConway912 Wrote: [ -> ]Omax looks good, very athletic, shot doesn’t look bad, high motor guy. Easy to see him have a role in the Nba.
Lively as expected, good defender, complete zero on offense. I remain skeptical that he’s worthy of a lottery pick. Never saw how he’s a better prospect than guys like Jarrett Allen or Mitchell Robinson who all got drafted way later a while ago when the league wasn’t quite as offense-heavy. I wonder how he’s supposed to stay on the court in a playoff game one day when opposing teams go small, his rim protection gets marginalized and he can’t punish anyone in the post or on offense in general. I’m not trying to fart in anyone‘s cereals here but I think you can easily make the case that the picks should have been reversed and Omax should have been pick #12 and Lively #2x (whatever it was).
Hardy needs to add the midrange game to his arsenal. He’s still not the quickest which hurts him in iso possessions where he just relies on his stepback again and again. Physically he looks bette than he did last summer league. Pretty good game from him before the chucking started late in the 4th.
I agree he was drafted too high, but my understanding is this was a weak draft class. I would also say his defensive upside is a level above both Allen and Robinson in terms of potential. It's more along the lines of Kessler or a less mobile Mobley. Clear All NBA defense type upside. Obviously his offense is clearly behind these guys. The bottom line is the desperation of what this team needs forced the pick. Also as we know bigs take a lot more time than other positions, and he's 19. He shouldn't look as refined as a 21 year old OMax with 3 years of college experience.
(07-08-2023, 11:30 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]The best thing for the Mavs in this game was that even though Wallace, who is the real deal, mostly lit them up, the one time the Mavs seemed to control him was when OMax was on him. OMax also guarded Holmgren effectively from time to time. He has the making of a versatile 3 and D guy who can guard every position. I can think of very few players who can do that. The Mavs need to be open to allowing him to earn 20-25 minutes per game this season. Lively, on the other hand, may need to spend some time in the G League, like Hardy last season. I think he’ll be a legit rotation big, but he’s a little more awkward than I expected and had almost no touch or aggression. Maybe we’ll see more force on offense in the next games. I loved his attitude in the post game interviews. Great defensive instincts, but he’ll have to do something else to be viable in the NBA and will need minutes to develop and build confidence. Overall, even though they lost, the team looked much better in terms of structure than last season’s summer league team. Props to the coach.
Honestly I'm not sure about that, given what we have served up at the 5. Despite his rawness he's leagues ahead of our current bigs in terms of defensive awareness and ability to alter shots. Not saying much, but IMO he could literally just be great at defense and get lots of playing time. That's how bad our situation is right now.
(07-09-2023, 02:31 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly I'm not sure about that, given what we have served up at the 5. Despite his rawness he's leagues ahead of our current bigs in terms of defensive awareness and ability to alter shots. Not saying much, but IMO he could literally just be great at defense and get lots of playing time. That's how bad our situation is right now.
In our second unit all he really needs to do is provide a bit of a threat around the rim. I think we’ll have plenty of O around him. I also think his D will be absolutely necessary with the second unit.
One thing I will say about the Hardy v Wallace discussion, is Hardy was guarded by someone who will likely be in all NBA defensive teams. Wallace was not (except when OMax was on him who did a good job). Wallace will always be the better two way player, but offensively I still think Hardy is going to be a monster and more than just the microwave scorer people think his ceiling is. No understanding of people who think he should give up on developing point guard skills when we are only into his second year in the NBA. Do people really think if you don't have those skills down after 1 year then that's it? Like Luka scale development is normal? I don't think that's how player development works. Not everyone (no one) is Luka. Some players take a few years to actually develop into something approaching the finished product.
(07-09-2023, 03:03 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]One thing I will say about the Hardy v Wallace discussion, is Hardy was guarded by someone who will likely be in all NBA defensive teams. Wallace was not (except when OMax was on him who did a good job). Wallace will always be the better two way player, but offensively I still think Hardy is going to be a monster and more than just the microwave scorer people think his ceiling is. No understanding of people who think he should give up on developing point guard skills when we are only into his second year in the NBA. Do people really think if you don't have those skills down after 1 year then that's it? Like Luka scale development is normal? I don't think that's how player development works. Not everyone (no one) is Luka. Some players take a few years to actually develop into something approaching the finished product.
I think you master the scoring part first and then the passing instincts eventually kick in or they don´t. Forcing the issue especially in SL can just be confusing. Let him develop into a multi-dimensional scorer first and then the rest of his game will follow. Especially when you have Luka and Kyrie, so PG skills aren´t that important right now. We saw it with Brunson. He is not a pure PG either. He developed his scoring, mid-range, rim often with a bit of tunnel vision, but incredible efficiency. And now he´s showing a little more of PG skills in New York. But when he entered the league (two years older than Hardy already), he was more polished scorer than passer. Whenver they tried to force court-vision onto him, he lost track of the ball and turned it over, while scanning the court for options. Let him master his "selfish-ness" first.
(07-09-2023, 06:11 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I think you master the scoring part first and then the passing instincts eventually kick in or they don´t. Forcing the issue especially in SL can just be confusing. Let him develop into a multi-dimensional scorer first and then the rest of his game will follow. Especially when you have Luka and Kyrie, so PG skills aren´t that important right now. We saw it with Brunson. He is not a pure PG either. He developed his scoring, mid-range, rim often with a bit of tunnel vision, but incredible efficiency. And now he´s showing a little more of PG skills in New York. But when he entered the league (two years older than Hardy already), he was more polished scorer than passer. Whenver they tried to force court-vision onto him, he lost track of the ball and turned it over, while scanning the court for options. Let him master his "selfish-ness" first.
I sort of disagree, but maybe I am wrong. I say throw as much stuff at him as possible. He will have the most shots by far of anyone on our summer league roster, but I have no issue pushing him to do other things. He is a natural scorer. Put him on the court anywhere for 30 minutes and he feels like he can get 25 on anyone.
But if he is being counted on for 20 plus minutes a night next year, he needs to impact games outside of scoring. He is the best player on our summer league team. How can he elevate others and not just get his #'s. I would absolutely love a 8 assist game from him. I say lets run pick and role with LIvely with a spread floor. Lets see if he can consistently make the right reads.
I envision him as an important rotation piece next year. Scoring will always be his strongest trait. But he will need to impact the games in other ways if he expects to be a top 7 minute getter next year imo.
I think he has that dawg in him though. He wants to destroy you. The defensive dawg is not there yet. Will never be his strongest point but it is still an area he will need to improve.
This team will be so much better positioned once Lively can play starter minutes. It really puts the rest of the center rotation in a much better place. It will just take some time until he is ready for it though. I can already tell the not finishing the non dunk attempts in the lane will be frustrating. Same with the free throw misses. Setting good screens is also a area of weakness. Luka is pretty demanding on that role, so he will need to really focus on getting to the right spot and setting good and legal screens. If he does this well, it opens up so much more for the offense.
If he can just do the simple things well, I think Luka is so smart that he will put him in good spots. I fully expect him to play at least 18 minutes in games from the start. We will see though. For the rest of the summer league, I want to see some put back attempts on offensive rebounds. I would also like him try to score when he gets the ball in the lane instead of passing. He made some solid passes, but I would like to see him be more aggressive trying to score. It is summer league. You are suppose to screw up and look bad.
Keyonte George looks like he had a monster game last night.
Detroit Pistons got the win, but looks unimpressive. They are playing a lot of core players too. Ivey shot 5-19 and their first pick Ausar only shot 1-4.
(07-09-2023, 07:06 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]This team will be so much better positioned once Lively can play starter minutes.
I can already tell the fan base is going to suffer from RPS - Reverse-Powell Syndrome.
We are going to be complaining about Lively's
lack of minutes after every game.
(07-08-2023, 10:48 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Wallace was regarded as one of (if not the) the best on ball defenders of the draft class. Between him and Black. He had an injury that slowed him down in the second half of the season. Most popular pre draft comp was Jrue Holiday.
Yes, Wallace was projected to be the best or at least of of the best on ball defenders in the draft. About a month before the draft i thought he would be the guy teams would fight for and trade up to take. The month leading up to the draft it was Bilal that really shot up draft boards. Couple that with the negative news on Whitmore and that’s how #10 became the spot where multiple teams were fighting to get Wallace. Makes perfect sense why OKC was willing to take Bertans just to ensure they got their man
Its a win for us though considering the need for multiple players and the quality haul we got. Love Omax and D-Live. The future is bright
(07-08-2023, 11:30 PM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ] Lively, on the other hand, may need to spend some time in the G League, like Hardy last season. I think he’ll be a legit rotation big, but he’s a little more awkward than I expected and had almost no touch or aggression. Maybe we’ll see more force on offense in the next games. I loved his attitude in the post game interviews. Great defensive instincts, but he’ll have to do something else to be viable in the NBA and will need minutes to develop and build confidence.
Same
I find the talk of him seeing 15-20 minutes per game on the Mavs to be baffling. I didn’t want to say G League because people would really call me a hater but he’s closer to G league than a 15-20 minutes in NBA guy right now. Still not a fan of that pick. Think it was based on need. But I’m no professional scout and now that he’s a Mav, I hope he works out.
I’ve already seen enough from OMax.. I want him to get all of the backup 4 minutes. He can probably guard 1-5 and that’s very very rare. If he’s just an average 3PT shooter he will be the steal of the draft.
Lively is very raw offensively. Painful to watch at times, raw. But his defense is already NBA ready and his potential is exciting.
Maxi should play every minute at the 5 this year. Our Big rotation isn’t as bad as people are making it out to be and technically Luka can be the 4 in certain lineups.
GWilliams 32 | OMax 16
Holmes 18 | Maxi 18 | Lively-DP 12
Look how smart Nico is. Staying as far away as possible 