Mavs 107, Kings 121

[Dahlsim]

Star players are like this. You expect them to get righted so you go with them. Role players like THJ or Brunson or DFS, they can be off and you just move to the next guy because you have a bunch of that category. You can't just move to the next guy because your star isn't because you have 1, maybe 2 of those guys and if they are what you go down with the ship on. Just is the nature of sports

Spot on, NBA revolves around the stars, you can't move on from them within the team, you have to move them off the team if it comes to that. Even if someone else emerges as a star replacement, you'll have a cancer in your locker room.

I would say though you can't make it with 1 star in todays NBA, really you hever could. You need at least 2 stars playing like stars and preferably 3 stars, You might have a superstar and an allstar but 1 star isn't winning anything today.

Lebron didn't even make the playoffs in LA the year before AD arrived and yeah you increase the chances of wearing and / or injuring your star.

I'm going to agree with this and add something that no one wants to admit when they talk about Luka.  Until Luka learns to share some of the load, there is no real time star that is coming here to play with Luka...and I'm not sure there will ever been a big man star that he can play with if he can't share the load.

I think trading KP will expose it more, not cure it.

I'm in agreement with 9 of 10 on your points Bama but that's not one of the nine.
Luka is playing to win. As someone posted earlier he dished out a bunch of assists sacrificing his scoring a few games ago and Dallas was getting blown out.

Luka is too smart not to recognize when the plays and passes he's running aren't likely to produce well.
For instance if KP is sitting out at the 3 point line but he's not looking like his shot is on then Luka may well feel he can sink the 2 pointer even with 2 or 3 guys around him. In fact I watched him do exactly that couple of times.
Now you can rightly say at some point you have to just trust your teammates but if its not happening too many times his BBIQ may say Hero ball is what I have to do.

Some of my favorite plays are Luka rolling to the rim with a strong BIG off PnR or similar action.
KP is a load in that scenarios and Luka can also run it with Boban incredibly well. He can do it with Powell or WCS but those guys aren't really skilled creators as much as good leapers if the play is finished with a slam.

KP & Boban can create improvise near the basket at elite levels.
Problem is this sort of action is never an staple in RC offense. Its an occasional thing, never something they run to consistently stabilize the offense. Of course Boban doesn't play and KP increasingly is expected to shoot like Steph Curry outside the arc.
The reliable inside game from the Mavs big men is simply not there to support Luka, offensively or defensively.
Luka and the wings have to do themselves, and they really aren't bad at it, Brunson is pretty good, THJ etc. but its not a good replacement over the long term for strong frontline bigs.

[hakeemfaan]

While I think some of our biggest problem(s) are a poorly assembled and utilized "team"...I also believe that KP is not a good fit for any Luka led "team."  KP is a unicorn (truly...and he thinks so as well) who should have a team built around him.  That's not going to happen with Luka on the team.  Who do you trade?  I trade KP in an instant.  Luka can be a cornerstone for a championship team...but the coach(es) need to get a handle on him NOW...and get that cornerstone firmly embedded in a worthy "team."  I frankly wonder what the coaches are doing...year after year...

And finally...your point #8 is something that has irritated me to no end for the last 12 years or so.  Maybe expanding the playing rotation would be a radical new approach...

I would bring a different coach before getting rid of KP. 

As much as some want to hate on KP, he is clearly the most talented young player they have had other than Luka, since Dirk.  Do you trust this front office to replace KP with comparable talent?

Plus RC had one mandate this year. To figure out how to get Luka and KP play off one another. If they had tried and failed it is one thing. I don’t even see two man plays. It is Luka doing his own thing and asking KP to figure out how to get his points. I know many will say that KP has deficiencies and that RC must have tried in practices. My answer is any Robin you get here will have deficiencies. Also practices are not the be all/ end all.  I just haven’t seen a concerted effort by the coaching staff to have a 2 man game. 

Even if they didn’t make the playoffs because they lost games going through the pains trying to make it work, I would be fine. What did we gain this year?  It has been a total waste.

[TXBamanut]

Do you realize that Luka won everything that could be won in Europe by age 18? And I mean on a team level, not individual level. I doubt that money and fame really changed him.

I can't agree with any statement about Luka not willing to share the ball/load. That is just wrong statement.

I'll pass the "do you realize" and not take offense at that nonsense and pretend you didn't start out like that.

1)  I don't think that Luka was the man all year when he won the championship in Europe.  He was the second or third guy (they are more about seniority than just raw talent - obviously the most talented), and they had injuries and the coach was forced to push him up and focus on him.  He averaged like 16 ppg and was the leading scorer, so he hasn't been in the position to work in someone else who is close to his level, and not a big man who depends on the PG to get him the ball.

2)  Euroleague is still not the NBA.

3)  Luka is not willing to share the load.  If he was, he'd be feeding KP in the post when he pins his guy down or not doing this....




Or this from the Memphis game...which happened a lot down the stretch...




This type of thing is very characteristic when the game is on the line, and look at the defenders in all of those pictures.  They know it's not coming back to Porzingis so their backs are even turned on KP.

[michaeltex]

FWIW, I don't think RC was ever about high paced games. He wants them more deliberate which allows him more control over running plays. He also wants to limit defensive possessions by using more clock during possessions. Up until lately, it has worked offensively, but defensively isn't bringing the desired results ( for whatever reasons you want to assign).

I'd love to see the team turn loose and run at a Dantoni-type pace just to see the results. That would be more like the Don Nelson days of just score more than the other guy can keep up with. Not sure that is better, but maybe upping the pace could put more urgency in the team's effort? 

I dunno....just spitballin' here.

[omahen]

1)  Luka wasn't the man all year when he won the championship.  He was the second or third guy, and they had injuries and the coach was forced to push him up in the pecking order.

You mean Euroleague or EU national Championship? Luka was clearly the man in Eurolegaue whole season - the injuries happened in the beginning of the season. In the National he was second man, but his winning attitude totally transformed our team.

2)  Euroleague is still not the NBA.

But basketball is a team sport same in Europe as in NBA

Or this from the Memphis game...which happened a lot down the stretch...

You provided a very, very bad example here. What is better - a 99 % probability layup Luka made to put Mavs down 1 with 25 seconds to go or a 36 % KP three? Same action in full, not just the picture. And of course, the pass from that position behind to KP is extremely difficult and risky.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?GameEventID=588&GameID=0022000837&Season=2020-21&flag=1&title=Doncic%202%27%20Driving%20Finger%20Roll%20Layup%20(25%20PTS)&sct=plot

Edit: as for the second picture from Sacramento game - there is clearly no passing lane to KP open.

[TXBamanut]

You mean Euroleague or EU national Championship? Luka was clearly the man in Eurolegaue whole season - the injuries happened in the beginning of the season. In the National he was second man, but his winning attitude totally transformed our team.




But basketball is a team sport same in Europe as in NBA




You provided a very, very bad example here. What is better - a 99 % probability layup Luka made to put Mavs down 1 with 25 seconds to go or a 36 % KP three? Same action in full, not just the picture. And of course, the pass from that position behind to KP is extremely difficult and risky.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?GameEventID=588&GameID=0022000837&Season=2020-21&flag=1&title=Doncic%202%27%20Driving%20Finger%20Roll%20Layup%20(25%20PTS)&sct=plot

Edit: as for the second picture from Sacramento game - there is clearly no passing lane to KP open.

smh... no time to dissect that.

[omahen]

Or this from the Memphis game...

And since you are posting a picture from Memphis game, why don't you rather explain the whole story, not just one tenth of the second captured by that photo?

One offense before it was Luka-KP pick and pop. Luka to KP, KP drives and makes it. Next offense (captured by your photo) was same play. Again Luka passes to KP. KP tries the drible, couldn't get advantage, so he gives it back to Luka who drives for the lay-up. Twice Luka passed the ball to KP in the crucial moments. But I guess this doesn't fit your agenda.

[Mavs2021]

I LOVE DFS and think he brings a lot to this team. But he is NOT two key things:

1) An elite shooter. DFS is 2nd worst in the NBA at corner 3 percentage for those who shoot more than 2 corner threes a game. He shoots 35% from corner three whereas almost everyone who shoots as many as he does shoots at least 40% from there and some up to 50% from there. 

2) An elite defender. It is hard to quantify this, but IMO and according to many stats DFS is an average defender overall (better in some situations and pretty bad in others).

If his 32 mins could be upgraded to someone who actually did BOTH of those things that would improve this team a TON IMO. Teams constantly leave DFS open for threes knowing they usually won't be punished and also regularly attack him on defense (like with DeRozan the other night) exposing that he even though he gives you good effort and fight, he generally cannot lock anyone down completely.

1) Well given that he shoots 37.8% from 3pt FG range overall, that means he must be far above league average from the other spots on the court, so the answer is to get DFS the ball in other spots, cause nobody on the opposing chooses, who stands in the corner.

2) Not having DFS stand in the corner is immediately an advantage in transition defense, too. I think Dorian can be an elite defender at the SF position, but to say he´s not good, because he has to extend beyond four positions is again a problem of the roster construction.

Ultimately that´s where all roads lead: the poor work at the top.

[ItsGoTime]

Some of my favorite plays are Luka rolling to the rim with a strong BIG off PnR or similar action.

We don't have that guy on our team.

[dirkfansince1998]

Not really sure how many post up touches KP should get. Feels like he is asking for the ball on every single possession and more often than not it screws up the spacing. KP has no go to spot and the bad entry passes are just as much on him as they are on the guards. Just pinning a guy isn´t enough. Needs the right angle, spacing and awareness from all players involved.
The Mavs system simply isn´t build for post up touches and that leads to some really ugly possessions. KP is asking for set plays and post up touches. RC wants to run a flow offense. Dribble/drive, pick and roll, kickouts and good spacing with multiple ballhandlers.
Right now it looks like Luka and KP are trying to impose their will. One is waiting for the screen that will never come. The other is waiting for the post entry pass that will never come.

Overall KP cannot really complain about a lack of post up attempts. He ranks 12th in the league. Getting four possessions per game. Some players in the same range: Sabonis, AD, Randle, Valanciunas, Griffin, Giannis, Ayton. Jokic ranks 2nd with 5.8poss. Embiid leads the league with 9.1poss.

[hakeemfaan]

Not really sure how many post up touches KP should get. Feels like he is asking for the ball on every single possession and more often than not it screws up the spacing. KP has no go to spot and the bad entry passes are just as much on him as they are on the guards. Just pinning a guy isn´t enough. Needs the right angle, spacing and awareness from all players involved.
The Mavs system simply isn´t build for post up touches and that leads to some really ugly possessions. KP is asking for set plays and post up touches. RC wants to run a flow offense. Dribble/drive, pick and roll, kickouts and good spacing with multiple ballhandlers.
Right now it looks like Luka and KP are trying to impose their will. One is waiting for the screen that will never come. The other is waiting for the post entry pass that will never come.

Overall KP cannot really complain about a lack of post up attempts. He ranks 12th in the league. Getting four possessions per game. Some players in the same range: Sabonis, AD, Randle, Valanciunas, Griffin, Giannis, Ayton. Jokic ranks 2nd with 5.8poss. Embiid leads the league with 9.1poss.

Has KP said he needs more post touches?  Maybe he goes there only because he feels that fans are asking him to go there. He certainly has no post moves to speak of.

Maybe the real issue is he is treated as one of the 4 guys for Luka to pass to when Luka doesn’t feel like jacking up a shot, and KP feeling that he is a much better offensive option than that. He is not exactly wrong if that is the issue. Ultimately it is RC’s failure that he has not devised set plays to get Luka and KP to play off one another.  For those in a rush to get KP out of here, grass is always greener on the other side.

[omahen]

Maybe the real issue is he is treated as one of the 4 guys for Luka to pass to when Luka doesn’t feel like jacking up a shot, and KP feeling that he is a much better offensive option than that. He is not exactly wrong if that is the issue.

WTF guys, come on... KP is clearly number two on this team. Luka is attempting 20 shots per game, KP 16 and THJ as next in line 12. JRich has 10, Brunson 9, DFS 7.7 and Maxi 5.5. You can't blame Luka for taking 20 shots as he is very efficient and you can't really complain KP is being neglected.

[mtrot]

WTF guys, come on... KP is clearly number two on this team. Luka is attempting 20 shots per game, KP 16 and THJ as next in line 12. JRich has 10, Brunson 9, DFS 7.7 and Maxi 5.5. You can't blame Luka for taking 20 shots as he is very efficient and you can't really complain KP is being neglected.

To me, it's not that simple of an evaluation.  What is more important to me is the quality of the shots the different players are getting.  A lot of Luka's shots are 10 on a scale of 10 in difficulty.

[TXBamanut]

And since you are posting a picture from Memphis game, why don't you rather explain the whole story, not just one tenth of the second captured by that photo?

One offense before it was Luka-KP pick and pop. Luka to KP, KP drives and makes it. Next offense (captured by your photo) was same play. Again Luka passes to KP. KP tries the drible, couldn't get advantage, so he gives it back to Luka who drives for the lay-up. Twice Luka passed the ball to KP in the crucial moments. But I guess this doesn't fit your agenda.

I have consistently made this point and supported it for months, because this has become a problem.  You are just in full denial and are just running your agenda of "Luka perfect, KP problem".

Fine, if that makes you sleep better at night and satisfies your full rage 'DON'T DISAGREE WITH LUKA EVER" mode.

The facts are that I'm pointing out legit problems with our offense and it's showing up on the court.  The Mavs show up well when both are involved and engaged and they are trusting each other...the Mavs suck when they don't.  FACT.  You don't like it...not my problem.  Stay in denial...and enjoy those 37 point Luka performances in a losses to one of the worst teams in teh league.  Long live Mitch Richmond on speed!

I think the Mavs can and should be better.

[TXBamanut]

To me, it's not that simple of an evaluation.  What is more important to me is the quality of the shots the different players are getting.  A lot of Luka's shots are 10 on a scale of 10 in difficulty.

Exactly.  100

It's not simply " you get your number, I get my number", it's get the best shot at the right time to the right player fulfilling the right role so the TEAM can win the game.  Continually making things as difficult as you can when you have a guy with a wide open shot is stupid.  That's dumb basketball.  

It's do you trust your teammate when the game is on the line to get them the ball when it's the right basketball play and beyond that, do you trust the stars on the team to do that.  Right now, that's not happening. 

Is KP being a butt?  Maybe.
Is Luka trying too take on too much because he believes he's that much better?  Maybe.
Is KP Michael Jordan and the number 1 on this team?  Of course he's not.

Unless you expect Luka to score 70 points a night with 20 assists, then you probably better figure out a way to trust KP and get this fixed, because if we roll into the playoffs playing hero ball and the "I dont' trust my teammate" vibe that is coming from KP and Luka...then we are going down hard.

Luka has made a living going in the lane, knowing where exactly all 4 of the other players are and the passes that some people love to praise Luka for and talk about his vision being amazing and all of that...AND it IS!... are nothing to any of the passes that I've pointed out in the examples I've used above...to ILLUSTRATE A POINT, not put up a comprehensive detailed 5 hour documentary on each second of the game... I'm sorry I didn't put up a video edited with multiple layers of motion graphics for some of the mentally deficient to picture...but the pictures were more than enough to make the point if you aren't driven by an agenda to kiss Luka's tail and live by the fingers in your ears, nananananana fantasyworld where you demonize anyone who points out a deficiency and expects better.

Good grief.

But those are just lame excuses because omahen doesn't want to deal with reality..

[SkenfromLMF]

Selective viewing to say that KP is not getting ignored at times... This is much more agregious than when this crap was happening to Luka from the guys they shipped out Luka's rookie year...

The problem is not all Luka, THJ might be more guilty than anyone. I don't know that KP deserved more touches late in the Sacto game but he did early, and it felt like an ice out when Noone was colder than Luka. 

There are other times when KP is smoking hot in the 1st half and the ball stops finding him... that can't happen. Luka can get the ball anywhere on the floor (when he is on his game) so don't talk about a lack of passing lanes when getting the ball to a 7'3" target.

[SkenfromLMF]

BTW having lived through Roy Tarpley (twice) I don't like all the supports it looks like Luka has on his legs... He has been wearing a single compression leg sleeve and had tape on the other leg vs Sacto. 

I wonder if part of Luka's demeanor is that he has picked up a couple of nagging ailments and feels like he is not being protected.

[mavsluvr]

One of the main chemistry goals of the season is (or should be) to perfect the Luka-KP synergy thing, and the grade is incomplete, at best. 

I am not an adherent of the idea that this is some snit-induced conspiracy on the part of Luka and the other guys to sabotage KP. I almost wish that were all there were to it, because that would be the easiest thing to fix. I think this is a more systemic issue. 

Carlisle has admitted that he likes to use KP as a spacer, to draw off a good defender, and then play four-on-four to attack weaker defenders. That is built into the system, and requires an adjustment to fix. Rick has acknowledged that it is on him to make sure that the offense is balanced, and KP gets a chance to shine. While KP should cooperate with the system, I can't fault him for not wanting to stand in the corner the whole game -- that is surely not maximizing his considerable talents, and is not getting any closer to solidifying a Luka-KP synergistic duo. 

The other part of the system that results in this issue, imo, is the flow offense, especially as managed by a young point guard, talented though he is. This type of offense inherently does not produce a predictable "x shots for A, y shots for B" pattern throughout any particular game. It has a certain catch-as-catch-can element to it, and different players will get more or fewer than their "fair share" of attempts, based on how the game is going. 

A layer of complexity to the offense for the point guard is making sure that everyone stays involved. Luka said after this very game that it is on him to "keep everyone motivated." I might not go that far, but it is part of his job to make sure that everyone is engaged offensively, in addition to looking for the open shooter and getting the best attempt available. That's an enormous job, especially for a 22-year-old, and it isn't that surprising that it doesn't always come off, and you get odd shooting distributions like last night, especially when some players are having cold games. 

Ultimately, it is on the coaching staff to develop a system that results in the two stars being greater than the sum of the parts, or to determine after reasonable effort that their two games are not compatible enough to make that happen. And, of course, it's then on the players to execute on the court. I don't think the team has unlocked that synergy, and the compressed season may not allow time for much experimentation in that direction or any other. 

I think it's going to take more than just telling Luka not to intentionally look KP off. I imagine he has already been given that instruction, or just knows it. But if they can't get it figured out, they'll be forced to trade KP. I don't think they're likely to get equivalent value for him, so I look for them to continue to try to make it work, at least for one more season, unless something breaks for them trade-wise.

The other option would be to get in a new coaching staff, to see if some fresh ideas would produce something more workable. If it is a choice between KP and Rick, I rather think Cuban would choose Rick, but it's certainly not for sure.

[DanSchwartzgan]

WTF guys, come on... KP is clearly number two on this team. Luka is attempting 20 shots per game, KP 16 and THJ as next in line 12. JRich has 10, Brunson 9, DFS 7.7 and Maxi 5.5. You can't blame Luka for taking 20 shots as he is very efficient and you can't really complain KP is being neglected.

This discussion is very interesting.  I get the desire of some to make the most of our max player and it is REALLY obvious when he’s standing on the perimeter with his hands outstretched.  There is also the need to consider what makes the team most successful.  Obviously a single player can’t take all of the shots.  So, what is the right number for a less efficient player to take to diversify the offense without hurting the offense?  

A couple of interesting data points...KP is getting the second most shot attempts of his career (per 36) and shooting his highest ever TS%.  So, he’s contributing scoring and efficiency more than he ever has.  He might think he’s killing it.  Why wouldn’t you pass to me if I’m better than I was when you gave me a Max contract?  

But, he’s still not especially efficient and there are more efficient alternatives.  From Luka’s (and Brunson’s) perspective, a pass to KP is the 7th most efficient pass he can throw if it results in a shot attempt.  It is literally more efficient to pass to DFS (at least based on TS%).  The other challenge is Luka (and Brunson) don’t have to rely on others to create those efficient shots.  Luka is unassisted on 90% of his two-pointers and 77% of his three’s.  Luka is at a career high of .593% TS% while doing all of this creating for himself and others.  If (IF) he has the mindset that I can do this on my own and have a better shot at converting what I’m about to do, it is hard to argue otherwise.

The question is what balance does the team need.  That is a coaching decision.  It is their job to balance a myriad of competing agendas...personal and team.  I can see why KP would want more (noting it is possible he’s insatiable and won’t ever be satisfied).  I can also see why Luka would feel justified in not looking his way any more than he already is.  If KP should be mad any anyone, it should be JRich who is even less efficient than KP.  Which brings up another question.  Who loses shot attempts if/when we ever get another gifted offensive player?

---

Ultimately, it is on the coaching staff to develop a system that results in the two stars being greater than the sum of the parts, or to determine after reasonable effort that their two games are not compatible enough to make that happen.

Agree and well said.

[KillerLeft]

This discussion is very interesting.  I get the desire of some to make the most of our max player and it is REALLY obvious when he’s standing on the perimeter with his hands outstretched.  There is also the need to consider what makes the team most successful.  Obviously a single player can’t take all of the shots.  So, what is the right number for a less efficient player to take to diversify the offense without hurting the offense?  

A couple of interesting data points...KP is getting the second most shot attempts of his career (per 36) and shooting his highest ever TS%.  So, he’s contributing scoring and efficiency more than he ever has.  He might think he’s killing it.  Why wouldn’t you pass to me if I’m better than I was when you gave me a Max contract?  

But, he’s still not especially efficient and there are more efficient alternatives.  From Luka’s (and Brunson’s) perspective, a pass to KP is the 7th most efficient pass he can throw if it results in a shot attempt.  It is literally more efficient to pass to DFS (at least based on TS%).  The other challenge is Luka (and Brunson) don’t have to rely on others to create those efficient shots.  Luka is unassisted on 90% of his two-pointers and 77% of his three’s.  Luka is at a career high of .593% TS% while doing all of this creating for himself and others.  If (IF) he has the mindset that I can do this on my own and have a better shot at converting what I’m about to do, it is hard to argue otherwise.

The question is what balance does the team need.  That is a coaching decision.  It is their job to balance a myriad of competing agendas...personal and team.  I can see why KP would want more (noting it is possible he’s insatiable and won’t ever be satisfied).  I can also see why Luka would feel justified in not looking his way any more than he already is.  If KP should be mad any anyone, it should be JRich who is even less efficient than KP.  Which brings up another question.  Who loses shot attempts if/when we ever get another gifted offensive player?

This needs to be in the Smithsonian of Mavs posts.