Mavs 107, Kings 121

[Kammrath]

1. The team is in serious need of some veteran leadership. Preferably, the kind that is exercised on the court, as there is a limited amount a guy can do from the locker room. They need a Luka whisperer. As it is, even if a teammate sees something that Luka or KP could be doing differently, they're not necessarily in a position to impose their opinions. Mark and Brian think this is important enough that it should be addressed in the offseason. 

2. Something has gone badly wrong in the process of their preparation and approach to games. They have not handled this stretch of games in a mature manner. It is dangerous to look at a stretch of lower record opponents and think you can take it easy for a while. Each game has to be played on its own with appropriate effort and respect for the other team. They need to do something to adopt a more mature approach. 

3. Fatigue is not an excuse. Yes, they are tired and probably carrying a few knocks. But so is every other team. Their process needs to allow them not to play exhausted. One thing that may help is getting 85% of the team and staff vaccinated, as that would allow players to sleep in, rather than having to be tested for COVID at 8 AM every day. 

4. The coaching staff is aware of these issues. Carlisle adverted to them when he talked about respect for the process. 

5. Now that some of the COVID restrictions are lifting, they should consider doing some team bonding activities, to encourage team spirit and ease some of the tensions. These are more important than many fans think. 

6. It is not only the players and coaches that need to take a look in the mirror. The front office has whiffed terribly in both of the past two offseasons, and they will have to do better if the Mavs want to remain in the hunt. 

1) I think I started saying in December that leadership was a fundamental issue with everything going on and maybe THE underlying issue. And I still think that is the case. 

2) The team has had inconsistent and poor effort and energy in almost half their games this year IMO. 

3) Every team is dealing with the same conditions so if fatigue is an issue it is on the players/coaches for not being in proper condition compared to other teams.

4) I don't think the coaches have done a very good job at all of getting things under control that have been going on for months IMO.

5) I am glad they admit there are tensions, as that seems to be clear. I am not confident they can be worked out, but any sort of camaraderie is better than the dysfunction that is currently plaguing the team.

6) Yes the whole MBT is at fault in this and needs to take a serious look in the mirror.

[Kammrath]

the fact that teams are not guarding J Rich is hurting the team. 

And his D. 

I was REALLY hopeful about JR this season but he has been a complete and total dud overall. The Mavs massively need to improve his position on the team, as he is really bringing them down this season.

[KillerLeft]

Followill and Dameris took a deep look into what's wrong with the Mavs on their podcast, Take Dat Wit You.

Some of their takeaways --

1. The team is in serious need of some veteran leadership. Preferably, the kind that is exercised on the court, as there is a limited amount a guy can do from the locker room. They need a Luka whisperer. As it is, even if a teammate sees something that Luka or KP could be doing differently, they're not necessarily in a position to impose their opinions. Mark and Brian think this is important enough that it should be addressed in the offseason. 

2. Something has gone badly wrong in the process of their preparation and approach to games. They have not handled this stretch of games in a mature manner. It is dangerous to look at a stretch of lower record opponents and think you can take it easy for a while. Each game has to be played on its own with appropriate effort and respect for the other team. They need to do something to adopt a more mature approach. 

3. Fatigue is not an excuse. Yes, they are tired and probably carrying a few knocks. But so is every other team. Their process needs to allow them not to play exhausted. One thing that may help is getting 85% of the team and staff vaccinated, as that would allow players to sleep in, rather than having to be tested for COVID at 8 AM every day. 

4. The coaching staff is aware of these issues. Carlisle adverted to them when he talked about respect for the process. 

5. Now that some of the COVID restrictions are lifting, they should consider doing some team bonding activities, to encourage team spirit and ease some of the tensions. These are more important than many fans think. 

6. It is not only the players and coaches that need to take a look in the mirror. The front office has whiffed terribly in both of the past two offseasons, and they will have to do better if the Mavs want to remain in the hunt. 

https://www.patreon.com/m/5874991/posts

Are they right?

I think that's a reasonable set of well made points. Right on all, in my view.

[SleepingHero]

1. The team is in serious need of some veteran leadership. Preferably, the kind that is exercised on the court, as there is a limited amount a guy can do from the locker room. They need a Luka whisperer. As it is, even if a teammate sees something that Luka or KP could be doing differently, they're not necessarily in a position to impose their opinions. Mark and Brian think this is important enough that it should be addressed in the offseason. 

This screams to me Goran Dragic. I don't mind the move. Just wish they did it 2 years ago. Further, Cp3 was right there for pennies on the dollar. Mavs should've made the move and not have thought about it. 

2. Something has gone badly wrong in the process of their preparation and approach to games. They have not handled this stretch of games in a mature manner. It is dangerous to look at a stretch of lower record opponents and think you can take it easy for a while. Each game has to be played on its own with appropriate effort and respect for the other team. They need to do something to adopt a more mature approach. 

3. Fatigue is not an excuse. Yes, they are tired and probably carrying a few knocks. But so is every other team. Their process needs to allow them not to play exhausted. One thing that may help is getting 85% of the team and staff vaccinated, as that would allow players to sleep in, rather than having to be tested for COVID at 8 AM every day. 

4. The coaching staff is aware of these issues. Carlisle adverted to them when he talked about respect for the process. 

5. Now that some of the COVID restrictions are lifting, they should consider doing some team bonding activities, to encourage team spirit and ease some of the tensions. These are more important than many fans think. 

6. It is not only the players and coaches that need to take a look in the mirror. The front office has whiffed terribly in both of the past two offseasons, and they will have to do better if the Mavs want to remain in the hunt. 

I don't see how the coaching staff can be aware of these issues yet still have the team be in such poor shape in terms of preparing for these games. Carlisle deserves A LOT of blame.


The front office also needs to wake the f up. Donnie seems to be afraid to make a big move and it's causing the team to stagnate while POR/DEN/LAL/LAC/PHX all made moves to improve.

[omahen]

1) I think I started saying in December that leadership was a fundamental issue with everything going on and maybe THE underlying issue. And I still think that is the case. 

Please don't take this offensively, not meant that way. If leadership is an issue, why do you actively oppose bringing in a vet leader? Like Lowry, for example. I think this kind of player would bring much more than what his stats show. Sort of like CP3 did for Phoenix. No one should expect a 22 year old to be the most mature person, vet leader of the team.

[omahen]

3) Every team is dealing with the same conditions so if fatigue is an issue it is on the players/coaches for not being in proper condition compared to other teams.

I don't think it is that easy. Even not every team had same problems with Covid. I am not sure how (Covid affected) players can get in shape if there is no time for training. 

Ever since results became a problem (Covid slump) Carlisle ran a very tight rotation of basically seven guys. Sooner or later this has to show effects.

[omahen]

Are they right?

Thanks for posting. I would agree with the points. Of course there are problems and of course the team is dealing with them. I don't take those problems as alarming as some others here, just a normal stuff under conditions of a very, very special and difficult season that every team is dealing with. It is difficult and basically unfair to judge about inteam stuff, as I have extremely limited information. And I think making a big deal out of something I basically have no idea is not helping the team.

One thing that bothers me. Media in majority thought 2019 and 2020 offseasons were great. I am not sure what Followill offseason grades were, but in majority we could read stuff like - sometimes doing nothing is best and similar. Same with Cato the other day. Unfortunatelly The Athletic doesn't have an archive longer then 1 year but I am pretty sure Cato was giving great grades for 2019 Mavs offseason. Sorry, but those media guys can't change their stance now and start puting all the blame on front office. It just seems hypocrisy to me.

I always claimed 2019 offseason was a disaster. You can't have max cap space and then claim it was a success because you didn't waste it by overpaying some guys. Guess what, turnes out they did waste it. Totally. It was a disaster as they were unable to execute their plans. Kemba thing, Miami trade thing, Danny Green thing, before even mentioning all other missed opportunities (Warren, Iggy,...) where they either didn't try it or other teams have been more successful. Miami who was in cap hell in 2019 managed to sign Jimmy Butler! Utah which is perhaps even less attractive destination than Dallas brought in Bogdanovic which would be basically exactly the player Mavs need next to Luka. Indy traded for Brogdon (and it didn't take much) which would again fit very nicely with Mavs. 

I can totally understand things don't always go according to plan. Things happen. But what I will never accept is that failed execution of a plan is marked as success, because they didn't do something stupid afterwards. It is not a success, it is denial. You can't improve operating like that. They had 30 mil of cap space and they did absolutely nothing with it. Trading Barnes for Jackson was a fail. Bringing Wright was a fail. Not bringing anyone else for that cap space was a fail. Not selling that cap space was a fail. I just don't see any positive in 2019 offseason.

I was ok with 2020 offseason. I totally agree that Mavs needed to improve defense and Curry would not work as a starting SG on our team. Richardson is a starter and you have to give something to get something. As someone posted yesterday - Mavs demand about non Luka/KP positions are so extemeely specific and high that it takes a really good player to fill the need. Personally I was promoting trades for better players using draft picks as assets but I can support the decision of drafting rookies. However, I always claimed - if you go this way, than you have to trust and develop those guys. You have to give them playing minutes. Because this is the path you chose. Mavs failed that and the value of those draft assets is probably close to zero now. I just hope they stick them in rotation next season.

[Kammrath]

If leadership is an issue, why do you actively oppose bringing in a vet leader?

It's the kind of vet leader and their giant contract that I am against. Someone like Dragic who can likely be on the cheaper side now? Sure. Paying Lowry $25-30M per year? Yeah, no. Just bring back JJB if that is the case.

The team has limited cap room and needs to spend that on young talent, any vet leadership needs to be frosting on top, not taking large portions of a cake that is already too small.

[Kammrath]

I don't think it is that easy. Even not every team had same problems with Covid. I am not sure how (Covid affected) players can get in shape if there is no time for training. 

Ever since results became a problem (Covid slump) Carlisle ran a very tight rotation of basically seven guys. Sooner or later this has to show effects.

I am not saying it is "easy," but it IS the fault of the players and coaches, as they are playing with the same deck of cards as everyone else. 

1) Luka in particular needs to be taking better care of his body if he wants to be elite. 

2) RC needs to be willing to play his rookies, like the vast majority of coaches have this year.

My point is that fatigue is on the players for not being in better shape and the coaches for not playing a deeper rotation.

[omahen]

Just bring back JJB if that is the case.

The Followil/Dameris said (paraphrasing) a vet chearleader is not enough and I totally agree. Player like JJB or Bobi can be a good locker room presence, lighten the mood and so on, but they don't have the authority to sort things out on the field. It is a totally different thing to provide a friendly advice, what JJB or Bobi can do, than simply shout "SHUT UP AND LISTEN!" to either Luka, KP or both and order them what to do. And they would oblige, imho. This is only what a leader like CP3 or Lowry would be allowed to do. Dragic? I am not so sure. Three years ago perhaps he had this in him. I am not so sure if he could still command that authority. I am affraid high salary is actually part of that. It shows overall respect and value of a player. You can't treat someone as washed up vet and expect him to have command and respect of players.

Of course it is also possible this kind of move would either backfire or not be enough. In that case you are left with little assets to work with. But that is why that last move might be even harder than Luka and KP moves. Whatever we do, it will be risky and if it fails, we won't see any progress. Unfortunately, only one team wins each year while many try their best. 

If you don't do a move like this, than I think way too much is expected from this team. It just is what it is and patience would be the only thing required. Because it will take time for youngsters to grow up, gain some life lessons and experience. Than you should basically just accept growing up problems as a normal part of this process.

[omahen]

as they are playing with the same deck of cards as everyone else. 

But that was my whole point. They really aren't. Utah and Phoenix had basically zero injuries whole season and I am sure that is a big part of why they are number 1 and number 2 in the West. Everyone else had their struggles, even powerhouses like Lakers and Clippers. But we somehow act as Mavs are the only one with problems. Portland is just in a middle of 3-7 stretch, for example. And they invested everything in win now. 

I am not trying to negate problems. Sure there are and everyone should work to improve. There is little excuse for losses against Chi 2x, Hou 2x and Sacramento among others. But I try not to be so critical, it just seems unfair to me. This season is difficult.

[KillerLeft]

But that was my whole point. They really aren't. Utah and Phoenix had basically zero injuries whole season and I am sure that is a big part of why they are number 1 and number 2 in the West. Everyone else had their struggles, even powerhouses like Lakers and Clippers. But we somehow act as Mavs are the only one with problems. Portland is just in a middle of 3-7 stretch, for example. And they invested everything in win now. 

I am not trying to negate problems. Sure there are and everyone should work to improve. There is little excuse for losses against Chi 2x, Hou 2x and Sacramento among others. But I try not to be so critical, it just seems unfair to me. This season is difficult.

Perspective is tough. You've done a good job of maintaining it here, so kudos. 

I think part of the problem is expectation vs. reality, and part of that is how quickly the team skipped 1-3 levels of the process during Luka's first two seasons. He clearly elevated the team quickly, but now they have arrived at the "people expect contention" part, and while I'm certainly not trying to discount the good stuff from those first two seasons, it seems clear (and has, since last season's playoffs) that the team has a LONG way to go to get to that "true contender" level.

[duboh7]

Wow!!  IMO, this is the best thread that's been on this "new" board...... broad participation by MANY of the long-time team-watchers, and many valid POVs, ably and respectfully argued. 

I tend to agree with DanS  that 2 upgrades are needed (talent -wise). and he defined their attributes.  But, I have for a while felt that Luka was too young (yet), to provide the on-court team leadership that is currently needed (and especially needed in recent weeks).  Remember the effect that Kidd & Chandler had on the championship team, and see the improvement in Phx & Uth with a seasoned team leader.

I would hate to see Doncic & KP split -- pure basketball talent is so hard to acquire.  But, some additional talent needs to be added, and a "leader" must be developed/acquired/inserted, somehow.

[mavsluvr]

I don't see how the coaching staff can be aware of these issues yet still have the team be in such poor shape in terms of preparing for these games. Carlisle deserves A LOT of blame.

This issue, in question form, was a point of emphasis in the pod. Whether the coaches are delivering the right messages (podders think they are). Whether the message is being delivered in such a way that the players get it. Whether the players receive and understand the message but are unable or unwilling to act on it. 


Attention was given to Doe-Doe's post game comments that the coaches are doing all they can do, and that bringing the right attitude to the court is on the players. Podcasters think the team looks worn down, which could account for their difficulty in bringing energy to every game. 

In that regard, they brought the suggestion of getting the team vaccinated, which would get them some more sleep time. They said Cuban mentioned recently that he wanted to get them all vaccinated. That seems like a simple thing to do, unless some people are reluctant to take the vaccine or something. I am not really informed about the merits of this suggestion, but if this is real, it would be another puzzling example of something falling through the cracks that seems like it should be a matter of basic management.

[KillerLeft]

That seems like a simple thing to do, unless some people are reluctant to take the vaccine or something.

Cuban basically said outright on the Ticket last week that some of the players don't want to be vaccinated. I'm only vaguely aware of this and might not fully understand it, but it seems that a segment of our African-American community (in the country, not on the team) carries a fairly deep-seeded mistrust of vaccines. I'm not sure why.

[dynamicalVoid]

Cuban basically said outright on the Ticket last week that some of the players don't want to be vaccinated. I'm only vaguely aware of this and might not fully understand it, but it seems that a segment of our African-American community (in the country, not on the team) carries a fairly deep-seeded mistrust of vaccines. I'm not sure why.

They had a skit about it on SNL

---

Cuban basically said outright on the Ticket last week that some of the players don't want to be vaccinated. I'm only vaguely aware of this and might not fully understand it, but it seems that a segment of our African-American community (in the country, not on the team) carries a fairly deep-seeded mistrust of vaccines. I'm not sure why.

They had a skit about it on SNL

[mavsluvr]

Cuban basically said outright on the Ticket last week that some of the players don't want to be vaccinated. I'm only vaguely aware of this and might not fully understand it, but it seems that a segment of our African-American community (in the country, not on the team) carries a fairly deep-seeded mistrust of vaccines. I'm not sure why.

I had not heard that the players don't want to be vaccinated, thanks for the info. 

There is some history with the government leading black people astray with fraudulent medical "treatments," such as the Tuskegee Study. Maybe that is at least part of the reason they are reluctant to take it, I don't know.

[cow]

I had not heard that the players don't want to be vaccinated, thanks for the info. 

There is some history with the government leading black people astray with fraudulent medical "treatments," such as the Tuskegee Study. Maybe that is at least part of the reason they are reluctant to take it, I don't know.

Bingo.  Time to crack the history books, friends.