TRADE: JJ Redick + Nicolo Melli to DAL | JJ + Iwundu + 2021 2nd + cash to NOP

[KillerLeft]

No they didn't. Orlando received just Teague min salary back. This allowed Orlando to take Harris contract in Gordon deal. Dallas would have to include Johnson which would have a substantially higher cost. Would you be ok paying 4 SRP for a possible Fournier rental? It was reported Mavs offered Johnson + 2 SRP for Fournier. Boston offer was obviously better

Yeah, someone pointed out in the other thread that the price Boston paid was essentially two 2nd's and $17 million. That's a TON of money to eat just for a Fournier rental, imo. 

I know it's not fun to think of spending other people's money as an obstacle, but that's 100% how these dudes operate. Mark Cuban's days of lighting $17 million on fire seem to be behind us. I can't blame him, personally. As long as he is actually trying to make the team great through reasonable means, I'm ok with him not losing $100 million over the next 10 years the way he did over his first 10 years. It's not like I'm willing or able to pony up the extra cash.

[dirkfansince1998]

So why the hell are you making all the drama aobut one SRP then?

In terms of value. Fournier is worth way more than JJ Redick and other teams actually value 2nd round picks. Redick is done. I guess other posters disagree but in terms of longterm asset management the Mavs paid one 2nd to get rid of Iwundu. Don´t think Redick or Melli will be on the roster next season. Different story when it comes to a player like Fournier.

[ItsGoTime]

I'm sure the Iwundu minutes recently had to do with showing NO what he could do on the court (probably).

I do like that JJ doesn't subscribe to the Seth Curry school of only shoot when there is no defender even hinting at coming to you. He's hopefully a <10mpg guy that plays the majority of his time in the last few minutes of each half. We have a hard time with those moments currently (seemingly, and I will say there has been a few games recently that are exceptions to this rule that makes me hope).

[F Gump]

Powell becomes nearly expiring (last year partial guarantee) this summer. 

It would be helpful if this were true. It is not. Powell's deal is fully guaranteed. We're likely stuck with him as an incredibly-overpaid backup for two more years after this one.

[KillerLeft]

Different story when it comes to a player like Fournier.

Ah, but that's a huge assumption! What if they already KNOW that they won't or can't re-sign Fournier?

Do you like him better than THJ? Because THEN, I can see the complaint. But I DON'T. Give me THJ, and I get how it might be ridiculous to go $20 million deep each on two new contracts for two versions of the same player.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Reddick gets his shot off as fast as any player I've seen when he comes around the top of a screen.  Could come in handy against teams who are shutting us down.

It's the other end of the court that they will suffer. I thought Dallas wanted to improve the defense? They have more than enough shooting. Doesn't move the needle to me, unless you're fine with 130-125 scores. 
.

[KillerLeft]

They have more than enough shooting.

[SleepingHero]

This move doesn't raise or lower our ceiling.  We just spent assets to spin our wheels which is the MBT specialty these days.  Our last great move was the Curry signing.

I agree that Curry signing was one of the best moves the Mavs have made in recent years, but I disagree that this specific move is inconsequential. 

Redick can stand in a corner and spot up. That's all the Mavs are asking. Last year when he played starter minutes he averaged 16 ppg on 45% from 3.

During this weird year playing a backup role, he's averaging 9ppg on 36% from 3, but since Feb he's been at 46% from 3.

I don't see Redick getting worse playing next to Luka. 

While losing Curry was tough, Richardson has turned it around on O and his defense has been a revelation at times, making that trade more stomachable. I view this Redick trade a bit of an add-on to that one. So now the Mavs have the Curry shooting AND the defense we've wanted since last year.

[luka_skywalker_77]

Oddly enough, the 2011 Mavericks gave up Sasha Pavlovic and a second rounder for Peja and look how that turned out. 

But if you want a really good laugh: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/5916...any-better

[dirkfansince1998]

Ah, but that's a huge assumption! What if they already KNOW that they won't or can't re-sign Fournier?

Do you like him better than THJ? Because THEN, I can see the complaint. But I DON'T. Give me THJ, and I get how it might be ridiculous to go $20 million deep each on two new contracts for two versions of the same player.

I think you might be right. Not about the actual player but about the Mavs willingness to spend money. The best way to maximize the Mavs assets would have been trade for player x/ resign THJ/ resign Richardson/ use MLE but with Doncic´s max getting closer Cuban is not as willing to go over the cap (not to mention the luxury tax).

[mavsluvr]

It's the other end of the court that they will suffer. I thought Dallas wanted to improve the defense? They have more than enough shooting. Doesn't move the needle to me, unless you're fine with 130-125 scores.

Maybe you're right. But the Mavs didn't think so. Cuban said just a couple days ago that their highest priority for the trade deadline would be acquiring more shooting. For better or worse, looks like he has put his money where his mouth is.

[dirkfansince1998]

Peja had three good games in the playoffs. Better than nothing but overall he was probably the worst rotation player. I guess with time we only remember the glorious moments against the Blazers and Lakers and ignore that he was completly useless against the Heat. He retired for a reason.

[SleepingHero]

Oddly enough, the 2011 Mavericks gave up Sasha Pavlovic and a second rounder for Peja and look how that turned out. 

But if you want a really good laugh: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/5916...any-better

The parallels of these two trades are a bit uncanny.

Sure some details are different. I for one am going to look back after the Mavs win the 2021 title and be happy that I wasn't upset losing a late 2nd rounder.

[KillerLeft]

The best way to maximize the Mavs assets would have been trade for player x/ resign THJ/ resign Richardson/ use MLE but with Doncic´s max getting closer Cuban is not as willing to go over the cap (not to mention the luxury tax).

Yeah, and let me take it a step further. I might lose your agreement here, but hopefully not:

If one of those two (Hardaway/Richardson) was a 4 or a 5, and they weren't BOTH wings, I think maybe the Mavs might've fought for Fournier today. As it happens, he plays the wing position, where they already have THREE guys they like PLUS a rookie in whom they just sunk the 18th pick. I think it's a different story if he's the same level of player, at the same price in trade and the same potential cost to re-sign, only a third big or something like that. Maybe Markannen is a good example (don't know if they like him or not). If someone like Markannen had been available for Johnson and two 2nd's I bet they would've been tempted today, even if he had been an upcoming free agent. 

Fournier would've helped, yes. More than Redick, yes. But he plays the ONE position where they really don't need help in an asset gathering, structural way, imo. If it was going to be a RENTAL, give me the CHEAP rental.

[cow]

I agree that Curry signing was one of the best moves the Mavs have made in recent years, but I disagree that this specific move is inconsequential. 

Redick can stand in a corner and spot up. That's all the Mavs are asking. Last year when he played starter minutes he averaged 16 ppg on 45% from 3.

During this weird year playing a backup role, he's averaging 9ppg on 36% from 3, but since Feb he's been at 46% from 3.

I don't see Redick getting worse playing next to Luka. 

While losing Curry was tough, Richardson has turned it around on O and his defense has been a revelation at times, making that trade more stomachable. I view this Redick trade a bit of an add-on to that one. So now the Mavs have the Curry shooting AND the defense we've wanted since last year.

"At times" for JRich's defense.  The best part of JRich has been his offense, specifically creating offense for himself (he's been dreadful from the three point line).  Give me a time machine and I'll keep Curry instead of that trade 10 times out of 10.  And that 2nd rounder we got, we had to spend another 2nd to approximate Curry for half of a season.  Pretty sure Curry's contract runs through the end of next season.

I understand this move if you think you are a contender, but we aren't.  We shouldn't be throwing away assets.

[SleepingHero]

Peja had three good games in the playoffs. Better than nothing but overall he was probably the worst rotation player. I guess with time we only remember the glorious moments against the Blazers and Lakers and ignore that he was completly useless against the Heat. He retired for a reason.

The fact is, the Mavs probably don't beat the Blazers or Lakers (edit: moreso the Blazers than Lakers) without Peja's timely shooting. That alone is worth a 2nd rounder.

[mavsluvr]

Peja had three good games in the playoffs. Better than nothing but overall he was probably the worst rotation player. I guess with time we only remember the glorious moments against the Blazers and Lakers and ignore that he was completly useless against the Heat. He retired for a reason.

Yeah, he was done. But yet, opponents often stayed glued to his hip, like he was the dead-eye shooter of old. I can see Reddick commanding that sort of respect. James Johnson -- not so much.

[Jason Terry]

I think you might be right. Not about the actual player but about the Mavs willingness to spend money. The best way to maximize the Mavs assets would have been trade for player x/ resign THJ/ resign Richardson/ use MLE but with Doncic´s max getting closer Cuban is not as willing to go over the cap (not to mention the luxury tax).

I had the same thoughts on that. Problem is with all 3 of TH/JR and Fournier the math likely doesn’t work for us to have the full MLE. And with them all playing similar positions we might need the MLE for a backup 4 or whatever

Its apples to oranges though with the Fournier and Reddick trade. We literally couldn’t offer 2nd’s to match Bostons offer. Them having that TPE was huge for the Magic who were paying luxury tax on one of the worst teams in the league. That relief isn’t something we could offer

If we want to be mad at the MBT, the real reason is: why weren’t we ever able to do what Boston just did with dome of our TPE’s?

[KillerLeft]

The fact is, the Mavs probably don't beat the Blazers or Lakers without Peja's timely shooting. That alone is worth a 2nd rounder.

I think we're a ways away from being able to compare this to the Peja move - that team was actually a contender. But, since we're talking about it, I watched every game of that playoff run about 3 times during the pandemic (all but maybe 2-3 games are on Youtube). 

I was shocked at how much help Peja was in the series he played. He wasn't much help in the last two rounds, but you're absolutely right. He was a LEGIT contributor in the first two. I couldn't believe how different some of those things had gotten in my memory vs. reality. There were definitely a couple of games in that run that Shawn Marion won almost single-handedly, too.

[Jason Terry]

Peja had three good games in the playoffs. Better than nothing but overall he was probably the worst rotation player. I guess with time we only remember the glorious moments against the Blazers and Lakers and ignore that he was completly useless against the Heat. He retired for a reason.

If all JJ does is have a 8 min stretch in one playoff win where he gets hot and makes 3-4 threes then it’s a slam dunk trade. A pick 48-52 is about as worthless an asset as it gets(especially when we lack a roster spot for that player)