No national anthem at Mavs game

[Kidnova]

There is a reason that guys like Jeff Bezos (with Blue Origin) and Elon Musk (with SpaceX) have stated that the single most important human mission is to find resources off the planet. 

I really do not understand how folks think the soon to be 8,000,000,000 people on this planet can be sustained at current consumption levels for decades to come.

I think you vastly underestimate human ingenuity and the vast quantity of resources available to us on this planet with untapped potential.  Anyways, this isn't the right forum for this discussion.

[Dahlsim]

I fundamentally disagree. I think he is making a business decision:

1) He knows the international community is the ultimate future cash cow for the NBA.

2) He knows that he can avoid future scandal around the national anthem by biting the bullet now (and getting some flack) and in the process eliminating a context for future scandal.

Follow the money. This is a long term angle and investment based on his read of markets, etc.

Yes, but those 2 things are not mutually exclusive, in fact the financial incentive to adopt the woke ideology is stronger than ever right now.

[KillerLeft]

Yes, but those 2 things are not mutually exclusive, in fact the financial incentive to adopt the woke ideology is stronger than ever right now.

I think part of the issue is the pejorative meaning your phrasing ("the woke ideology") brings with it, right or wrong. This is similar to what we were discussing earlier with "propaganda." To some, that could come across as a belittling way of alluding to a needlessly simplified and lumped together set of beliefs about a wide range of topics.

[dynamicalVoid]

It's true that capitalism leads to innovation, especially from the best of us. No argument there, and I'm not anti-capitalist. Far from it. I love this country's history, even the shameful parts of it, and I'm proud to be an American. 

But, if you pay attention when you're out and about today, you'll see very quickly that the best of us aren't multiplying at nearly the rate as the average, and that's a view on a country where certain levels of education and privilege are still easily attainable. The average people drink water, eat food and live on land. The best of us are currently trying to figure out who will own all of the drinkable water on the planet in 50 years, while the average are trying to figure who we can get for Kristaps Porzingis on the trade market. At SOME point, the conclusion of this will be that the only way to "win" is to murder people from different places. I don't mean that hyperbolically at all. 

I didn't mean to stop the discussion down with this, sorry. We should probably keep it to the anthem. My point is that sometimes we focus on the details of change rather than the big picture.

---

Absolutely.

My issue with what you say is this:

If this is some 3D Empire building/War game(race, culture, resource, alpha, whatever)...why is it such a secret that no one talks about?  Public schools teach kids to be kind, ethical and get an honest job...but then military families throw mud on you for not joining them in raiding other countries and making the USA strong?  You're labeled a Liberal by people that dont want you messing with their family but have no issues with killing you and your family and stealing your land.   It makes no sense.  I guess government hive minds have different rules than sissy civilians. 

Why would I want to join a military that allows schools to lie to kids?  Riiiight...guys with guns dont have power...its always "a different agency is in control of that".

If power and greed are so important(kill or be killed)...why not teach kids that from the beginning?  Wouldnt the military be stronger? Is this an intelligence test or is this a war game? (i know your answer to this..."sorry people lied to you,son" "cant you put all the hints together, Kiddo...they pinned Jesus to boards...open your third eye"..."honest, hardworking aint an option, son"...blah blah blah)

It all leads to dividing people and hopefully causing conflict.  

[KillerLeft]

I'm not sure I totally follow your point @"dynamicalVoid", sorry. If it helps, I think things change slowly, public schools included. But, I do think tolerance and acceptance of others' beliefs has been gaining priority in our recent culture, public schools included. If anything, that's kind of the nucleus of much of the strife our country is dealing with these days.

The emboldened part of my post was NOT my personal goal for the future, lol.

[RDB]

By the way, who do you all think we can get for KP 

[Dahlsim]

At some point in the future, I hope we look back at the imaginary dividing lines between countries as dumb, even. But that's just me.

Certainly not just you. The idea of one big happy global community is very much on many minds and agendas. The question is how to get there. 

Even at the most elementary level, at your hypothetical point in the future, for lines to be dumb i.e. unimportant, you would need 

• No country to desire to do things differently than any other group. 
  
• No country to be willing to force by violence, deception, theft etc. its will on another country 
  

If one country wants to do things in significantly different way then it requires very real dividing lines of some kind to distinguish this group that's operating this way from that group operating another way. 
This gets into the entire idea of how a nation is defined for example. 

As for force, violence, deception, theft etc. as long as that exists the need for dividing lines remains a very real one.  Take for example border of a country.  

Should a country assume that if no borders are enforced then no one that comes into a territory has any intentions to do anything harmful to others in the region?  
If the lines are not needed, will everyone that enters a region be harmless to everyone else? 

How about your home/property?  Could the dividing lines be considered imaginary or are there real considerations for enforcing lines?

[Kammrath]

I think you vastly underestimate human ingenuity

And I think you vastly underestimate human hubris. 

But alas, this is indeed not a conversation for this space.

[ClutchDirk]

Reminds me of a certain Luka thread from a couple years ago...this one will go viral also...

[Dahlsim]

I think part of the issue is the pejorative meaning your phrasing ("the woke ideology") brings with it, right or wrong. This is similar to what we were discussing earlier with "propaganda." To some, that could come across as a belittling way of alluding to a needlessly simplified and lumped together set of beliefs about a wide range of topics.

I used 2 words, certainly not my own creation.  

Who defined them as pejorative? 
Do I need to try to convey the meaning with different words that would be more acceptable? 
If so what would those words be? 

Wokeness 

a state of being aware, especially of social problems such as racism and inequality:

 Is it the recognition that there is an ideology around this now that is offensive to say?  

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1...8512280581

[SleepingHero]

https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1...8512280581

Wow. Silver coming in and forcing Cuban's hand.

Did not expect this.

[Dahlsim]

I think part of the issue is the pejorative meaning your phrasing ("the woke ideology") brings with it, right or wrong. This is similar to what we were discussing earlier with "propaganda." To some, that could come across as a belittling way of alluding to a needlessly simplified and lumped together set of beliefs about a wide range of topics.

On the word propaganda, yes I chose it quite deliberatively because 

1) Its historically the word used in context of the military and control of the ways nations and groups of people think and behave.  I provided links that go back many years, before you are I were even born. 

Sticking to sanitized and safe words is part of propaganda in fact. 
Its the opposite again of free speech. 

2) The word propaganda itself is not necessarily good or bad, but it can be either.  I intended to convey that. 

Part of what makes propaganda effective, especially if it is used in what we might ultimately consider a bad way, e.g. Nazism, is that people don't recognize that its actually propaganda and don't consider the fact that it may be manipulating them.  

Not saying it is, but if they know it may be, they might think more critically of what is being fed to them.

[haveitall]

Well, to me it's a different situation from where most of us work, in that major sporting events are the occasions for large societal gatherings, whether in person or on TV.  You've had near 20,000 Americans turning out for NBA games and 80,000 or more for NFL games, and I don't know how many for MLB games.

IMO, the mere freedom that we have in this country to so freely engage in such a cornucopia of sporting events is a reason for celebration.  The anthem is just a reminder of how we came to be such a free people.

---

Agreed, but when did playing the Anthem become political?

Agreed.  I meant removing the anthem from games in this situation seems like a political move.

[Dahlsim]

Wow. Silver coming in and forcing Cuban's hand.

Did not expect this.

A bit surprising I agree, but as someone said earlier, follow the money.  

NBA likely perceives some $$$ backlash.  I imagine they want to be woke, but not too woke. 

[SleepingHero]

On the word propaganda, yes I chose it quite deliberatively because 

As an aside, Dahl I love when you choose to post in these threads because I just imagine your monk-like avatar as you and you're spouting wisdom as a monk. Very entertaining imagining that way and enlightening seeing your perspective lol!

[ItsGoTime]

Sure, and I didn't plan on diving any deeper into the topic in this forum as it's off-topic, just interested in your thought process.  Thanks for the reply. 

NO! This is turning into the new Luka's tattoo side show! Keep it going!

[SleepingHero]

NBA likely perceives some $$$ backlash.  I imagine they want to be woke, but not too woke.

Very true. I also imagine the NBA is hurting hard already from COVID and don't want to add a very avoidable expense here, even if it goes against their "woke" track record.

[Kammrath]

Wow. Silver coming in and forcing Cuban's hand.

Did not expect this.

I think the NBA has too much monetary stock so to speak in military and Department of Defense stuff....this doesn't surprise me for the league to push back.

[KillerLeft]

I used 2 words, certainly not my own creation.  

Who defined them as pejorative? 
Do I need to try to convey the meaning with different words that would be more acceptable? 
If so what would those words be? 

It’s ironic that you adopted a defensive posture, as my goal was to help explain to you how/why Kamm MIGHT have reacted the way he did to your phrase. Kind of the exact same point you’re making above, only in a nicer way. Somehow, you seem to have gotten the idea that I was attacking you, which lends itself to the idea that his assumptions about your original meaning might just have been right on the money. 

I was inclined to partially agree with your point, but since it now seems that you meant “woke ideology” in the exact, reductive way Kamm read, I’m 100% sure he has the right of it. I don’t think the stereotypical lump of straw to which you’re referring played much of a part in Cuban’s decision at all.

---

On the word propaganda, yes I chose it quite deliberatively because 

1) Its historically the word used in context of the military and control of the ways nations and groups of people think and behave.  I provided links that go back many years, before you are I were even born. 

Sticking to sanitized and safe words if part of propaganda in fact. 
Its the opposite again of free speech. 

2) The word propaganda itself is not necessarily good or bad, but it can either.  I intended to convey that. 

Part of what makes propaganda effective, especially if it is used in what we might ultimately consider a bad way, e.g. Nazism, is that people don't recognize that its actually propaganda and don't consider the fact that may be manipulating them.  

Not saying it is, but if they know it may be, they might think more critically of what being fed to them.

Yeah, that’s pretty much exactly what I wrote earlier, only in different words. You do read what other people write here, right?