2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[KillerLeft]

Your main concern is KP isn’t a ball handler? We have the best ball handler in the entire world. No meaningful minute of basketball should be played without the ball in his hands. Period. Obviously the MBT feels the same way. 

If this were true, and I don't think it is, then why all the dozens of quotes about needing a "secondary playmaker?" 

Did you watch the playoffs last year? I watched every minute of them from the 2nd round on. What you're describing is the Houston Rockets, and even THEY had Westbrook on the floor (as poorly used as he was). Every other successful team put multiple players on the floor during crunch time who could pressure the defense and make decisions with the ball in their hands. Every single one of them. 

In addition to his defense, what did Carlisle talk about the other day with Richardson? That's right - his ability to make plays off of the dribble. Remember Jason Terry, your account's namesake? The Mavericks didn't have a single guy on the team with even that guy's mediocre playmaking ability, which is why they drank so heavily from the Trey Burke cup against the Clippers. He was a miracle. 

I could literally write 5,000 words about how important it is to have more than one playmaker on the floor in the modern NBA, but it has been discussed so much around here over the past months that I won't. This is so obviously a concern of theirs that I'm led to believe your passionate response here is born of some misunderstanding of what I'm suggesting. I'm not wanting to take the ball out of Luka's hands at all. 

The guys you’re comparing him to aren’t even close. None of Maxi, Bertans, Ibaka and Tucker can both shoot at an elite level AND rim protect at the level of KP. 

They ARE close at the ONE skill I was highlighting in that particular bullet point, yes. The overall puzzle of all skills combined doesn't actually factor into his value unless those skills are utilized HERE on THIS team. You're saying he's paid more than those guys because he can do more, and I agree (but probably wouldn't be so quick to go to defense as his 2nd best skill, lol). The point is that if he's locked in here at a max and those skills don't get used here, I think that could be a problem, ESPECIALLY if the contract reduces flexibility, which it clearly will after next summer. 

Do you seriously think if Jokic were here that the offense would be ran through him with Luka on the court?

Yep. Especially while Luka was resting, or if (God forbid) he ever got hurt. I also think Carlisle's actions work better with MULTIPLE people involved who can create for others. I can say this would be worked into Carlisle's system without the slightest hesitation. 

You admit your post doesn’t even discuss the defensive end. Why on earth is offense even a topic of conversation? Straight from the horses mouth Rick is out there making jokes about the best offense in the galaxy and how it DOES NOT MATTER. Nothing matters without defense. KP going down means very little offensively. Without his rim protection we do not have a chance in the playoffs. It is 100% about his health.  

Another thing we've talked about a lot around here this off-season is defense. I actually think defense is the WORST thing about KP's game. I think he's legitimately a PROBLEM for the Mavs on that end. Most regular readers know this about me, so I didn't include defense in this, particular argument just to avoid beating people over the head with it (again). 

Now, he IS useful as a rim protector. But I believe that more and more, guys like him will be exposed as we move further into the spread pick and roll era. Give me a 6'10" guy who can MOVE, personally. I think KP can be used effectively, and in some situations his length will certainly come in handy, but I don't think he's the defensive cornerstone some people believe he is. He's not Gobert, for example. 

We will go as far as Luka takes us. All the talk in the FA/trade thread about sEcOnDaRy pLaYmAkEr. That’s such a small need that we can fill it with a guy off the streets like Burke for 3 mill a year. 2011 was won on defense and so will the next one. The MBT feels the same way

Well, I agree and I disagree. 

Yes, Luka is the special sauce. He's the reason we're even talking about this right now. 

Yes, Burke filled that role in the playoffs...but, they lost. Again, EVERY team who advanced had multiple playmakers. 

Yes, defense was ALSO a problem, and yes, it has been addressed. It should be better this year. 

I guess I just have a much healthier respect for how difficult it is to win an NBA championship than you do. If you honestly believe Luka, KP and 3 defenders can do it, then I'm not sure we'll find much common ground. I think THAT is super far from reality. I think that if that's the approach (it isn't, the MBT does not agree with you, thank God) then we're destined to follow a repeat of Dirk's sad, "what if" career. 

I want more. You should, too.

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For sure in NY, and with that being the case, not sure why you don't point to RC's offense as the reason for it being less here as opposed to his ABILITY to do it. If he has the ABILITY, then it is on the coach to unlock it, especially with as much control as RC has on his team (not a bad thing, just a circumstance with which KP finds himself).

As far as here? To state again, I saw it when Luka went to the bench and KP showed much more ABILITY like he did in NY. There were moments of it with Luka on the floor, just not as much.

Ok, so we're starting to get somewhere, great. 

You're saying, I think, that you feel confident that KP can carry the water if/when Luka misses a big stretch? 

Ok, I can meet you halfway there, only I'm not as comfortable with the idea that they'd have to drastically alter their approach to accomplish this. And, (this is the big one for me) I don't think Luka being a 100% handler is ENOUGH, even when they're all healthy. 

So, if he CAN do it here, I want to SEE him do it here. That's my whole point.

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To me he's max money because he's not only a great player, he's an asset should you need to move him for a better fitting piece. It's another reason why he's not overpaid. If you traded KP you would get much more back than Dallas gave up which was almost nothing. Dallas essentially gave up DSJ who was a bust and two first rounders?

Now if you did trade KP you also probably wouldn't get top value either because frankly its hard to get that. Anthony Davis fetched the best package recently but he was also a great player. Paul George also fetched a really nice package but in both cases the team trading them away were forced into rebuild mode to an extent. Jrue got traded for picks but NO didn't improve by trading him away.

So for KP, if you can trade him for Giannis then sure that's great (not impossible that deal could happen one day...). Bradley Beal? Maybe. I am starting to wonder if he has gotten overrated the last couple of years. Who are you going to get that is going to be an upgrade over KP?

To me you would upgrade him by a combination of the player you get back + his replacement you get in FA. Like in a magical world where you could play Gobert in the playoffs down the stretch you could talk yourself into KP for Beal and then go sign Gobert.

All that to say I think in this case the MBT pulled a rabbit out of a hat getting absolutely the best player they could realistically get, a star, at a young age for pennies on the dollar in terms of assets given up. That's fantastic. Would I be open to moving him a later date? Maybe not but I'd have to see the deal. It's not like the Bucks are going to call you up on their own to pitch Giannis. Same with Taytum, same with most other players you might rather swap with KP.

Yeah, I agree with the vast majority of this. 

I'm trying to hit an extremely small target of a point with what I'm attempting to articulate here, and apparently I'm missing the mark. 

My whole thing isn't "KP isn't a max guy," it's this:

1) The Mavs need AT LEAST two crunch time players they can play THROUGH in order to avoid getting punk'd like Harden's Rockets.
2) I'm not sure (yet) if KP can be or will be one of those guys here. I'm a little concerned about that, to the point where I wouldn't just relax and start building around Luka/KP like my future is made. 
3) Because KP already got paid, Luka's extension represents the end of several plausible ways of acquiring a high-dollar, difference making, 2nd star type of player, so if KP is NOT that guy (even if he's still "worth" a max) and they don't have someone in place who IS that guy by the time Luka signs...I just think life for the MBT gets much, much more difficult.

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I dunno.

My impressions when I watch him play is that his efficiency is terrible when he's given the ball and told to create a shot.  He is unable to take advantage of smaller defenders and takes really bad contested long two pointers.  He basically takes the shots Dirk was amazing at except KP isn't very good at them. 

I still think he's a max guy for what he provides but I dont think he's that #1 option type guy on a good team.

This, essentially, is what I'm saying.

If he's their answer for 2nd best player and he doesn't get SIGNIFICANTLY better at creating for others, or at least for himself, I think that contract might bite the Mavs right in the ass. 

OR...they get another playmaker at either the deadline or next summer, BEFORE Luka's extension kicks in, and BOOM - they have an awesome, versatile big who gets to be the best version of Love/Bosh ever. No pressure on him at all at that point, especially on the offensive end, and you can pay him 4x the Max, for all I care.

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Seems like I kicked up a hornets' nest with this KP stuff. 

If it's not clear by my writing, just let me state clearly that I am NOT anti-KP. 

I'm just a little worried that the top end of the Mavericks' talent profile might not be as complete as many of you seem to think.