Updated roster + Giannis max slot 2021

[Drew]

I’m perfectly happy taking this team into the seasons and seeing what shakes loose as the TDL approaches.

Maybe they don’t need to make a move. Maybe they do.

But I’m fine with THJ unlike most this board. I think he and Richardson will play well together and both will be bette for it.

[loki]

I still think we need better secondary facilitator and defender to replace THJ in the starting lineup. OPJ, Oladipo look like the only credible options in the UFA class. White is an option in the RFA. If we don't target them, I guess we can just keep THJ (assuming Green improves slowly). Trent or Hart are poor man options, perhaps Anunoby. Duncan Robinson should get an honorable mention.

The second position we could upgrade is the big wing (PF). Again I would look for offense and defense. At the moment there are two very interesting PF RFA (if they don't get their extension) - Collins and Isaac. One is defensive beast but can't stay healthy. The other is a huge offensive talent and should look great next to KP.

I think this is a pretty accurate assessment. I've got my fingers crossed that OPJ will return to form and be one of the Mavs' main targets next offseason. Sadly I don't think a trade for him at the deadline is very likely. If one of the rookies plays well and gains some value, maybe that opens the door.

Isaac is a huge difference maker defensively and has been steadily improving on the other end. He would be one of the better fits next to KP. But with his injury I really have no idea how Orlando will handle the situation. If they aren't willing to risk a long term deal, he might sign a QO to prove himself and become an unrestricted free agent in 2022.

[radioaktiv]

Did we drop someone after the WCS signing?  Or trade incoming?

[dirkfansince1998]

Did we drop someone after the WCS signing?  Or trade incoming?

Mavs will cut someone after the training camp.

[SleepingHero]

Did we drop someone after the WCS signing?  Or trade incoming?

Mavs will cut someone after the training camp.

I can't wait for the meltdown if Barea gets in over someone like Iwundu or dare I say Bey.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

It´s a little bit funny that yesterday everyone was telling me that this is not about Giannis but now we basically have a thread about Giannis and potential ways to add him.

I like to think of it this way. Dallas is a better team now than it was to end the season. So that's a win. But beyond that: You know how Milwaukee went all-in on keeping Giannis? Dallas (and Miami) went all-in on attracting him. Now Giannis gets to choose. 

The difference is the downside. If Giannis chooses to stay in Milwaukee, Dallas's options are wide open for other ways to improve the team. And I have no doubt that other good players will be more than happy to come play with Luka. But if Giannis chooses Dallas, Milwaukee is completely hosed for the foreseeable future while Dallas is signing long-term contracts for championship banner manufacturing.

So enjoy the present and be optimistic for the future. Dallas has a high floor and almost no ceiling right now!

I think Mavs fans aren't giving enough credit to Miami and even Toronto.

If Giannis even leaves, I think it's something like 45/30/25 Miami/Dallas/Toronto.

[dirkfansince1998]

Did we drop someone after the WCS signing?  Or trade incoming?

Mavs will cut someone after the training camp.

Why not avoid the whole drama? Let JJB stay. Give Terry a two-way contract and convert it next year. Cut Hinton.

[Scott41theMavs]

Did we drop someone after the WCS signing? Or trade incoming?

Mavs will cut someone after the training camp.

Why not avoid the whole drama? Let JJB stay. Give Terry a two-way contract and convert it next year. Cut Hinton.

That's precisely what I was thinking. Second-best case scenario to JJB the coach.

[SkenfromLMF]

We can have multiple bodies going into training camp... it is coming out we have to get it to 15+2. Has there been any word on Courtney Lee getting a contract somewhere else???

[Kammrath]

I can't wait for the meltdown if Barea gets in over someone like Iwundu or dare I say Bey.

[cow]

Did we drop someone after the WCS signing?  Or trade incoming?

Mavs will cut someone after the training camp.

I can't wait for the meltdown if Barea gets in over someone like Iwundu or dare I say Bey.

What if he beats out Luka?

[KillerLeft]

I think Mavs fans aren't giving enough credit to Miami and even Toronto.

If Giannis even leaves, I think it's something like 45/30/25 Miami/Dallas/Toronto.

Oh, for sure - they're up against two really good teams with two really good front offices. 

What gives me optimism in this case is that I am able to put myself in the shoes of the free agent and envision that Dallas could be a great fit. This is unlike the other star free agents they've chased in the past, when the pitch was basically "Come to Dallas, where you can basically be the first piece in a ground up rebuild while helping us made the very end of Dirk's career less sad." That's DELUSIONAL, and they deserve all of the criticism they got for trying that. But in this case, I would argue that not only is there a good fit here, I think the Mavs are the BEST fit for Giannis on the court. The European influenced, multi-cultural nature of the lockerroom probably doesn't hurt, either. The biggest question, imo, is whether Giannis WANTS the ball taken out of his hands and play off-ball more. He SHOULD want that, but we don't know if he does. 

But, that same question exists for the Toronto bid, imo, and it's undeniable that their roster is in way worse shape than Dallas's. I don't consider them as much of a threat as you seem to. 

Miami could potentially pitch a ball-handling role to him, and they certainly have a location advantage as well as a front office advantage, but these aren't death sentences. I think Dallas with Giannis is better than Miami with Giannis, personally, and i don't think that's homerish.

[omahen]

But, that same question exists for the Toronto bid, imo, and it's undeniable that their roster is in way worse shape than Dallas's. I don't consider them as much of a threat as you seem to. 

Miami could potentially pitch a ball-handling role to him, and they certainly have a location advantage as well as a front office advantage, but these aren't death sentences. I think Dallas with Giannis is better than Miami with Giannis, personally, and i don't think that's homerish.

Both have one huge advantage to Dallas imho. "Come to us and you will be the main dog with a great surrounding cast we already have." And you can't deny they don't have great young pieces with Siakam, FVV and Anunoby in Toronto. Herro, Robinson, Bam and Nunn in Miami just to name a few. Not to mention top front offices and great culture. 

Dallas pitch is - "come to Dallas and be great next to Luka" (translate - Luka will make you great).

[KillerLeft]

It´s a little bit funny that yesterday everyone was telling me that this is not about Giannis but now we basically have a thread about Giannis and potential ways to add him.

It's not ALL about Giannis, it's about options. He's simply the best possible option. 

The approach, imo, is about not closing doors to a variety of team building choices over the next two years, and I have no trouble envisioning 20 options that are better than anything they might've conceivably passed up recently to maintain the flexibility. 

Obviously, Giannis is the ideal outcome, and good for them for throwing their chips in at the big-boy table. But, unlike the other free agency swings since 2011, most of which were LUDICROUS, this isn't the equivalent of throwing your daughter's college fund down on one hand of blackjack. If they get him, we have a DYNASTY on our hands. If they don't, there will be loads and loads of other options, many of which will be much, much better than anything they've passed up recently (that we know of). Unlike those other free agency situations, there's a 0% chance they walk away with nothing, because they're not STARTING with nothing.

[omahen]

It's not ALL about Giannis, it's about options. He's simply the best possible option. 

The approach, imo, is about not closing doors to a variety of team building choices over the next two years, and I have no trouble envisioning 20 options that are better than anything they might've conceivably passed up recently to maintain the flexibility. 

Obviously, Giannis is the ideal outcome, and good for them for throwing their chips in at the big-boy table. But, unlike the other free agency swings since 2011, most of which were LUDICROUS, this isn't the equivalent of throwing your daughter's college fund down on one hand of blackjack. If they get him, we have a DYNASTY on our hands. If they don't, there will be loads and loads of other options, many of which will be much, much better than anything they've passed up recently (that we know of). Unlike those other free agency situations, there's a 0% chance they walk away with nothing, because they're not STARTING with nothing.

But Dirkfan has a legitimate concern. Because as long As GA hope is around and as long as Mavs are targetting him, other options will be passed. If Giannis comes to 2021 free agency and decides to take a week or two to make a decision, there will not be many other options left for 35 mil of our cap space. That's why I am terrified about 2021 free agency.

[KillerLeft]

Both have one huge advantage to Dallas imho. "Come to us and you will be the main dog with a great surrounding cast we already have." And you can't deny they don't have great young pieces with Siakam, FVV and Anunoby in Toronto. Herro, Robinson, Bam and Nunn in Miami just to name a few. Not to mention top front offices and great culture. 

Dallas pitch is - "come to Dallas and be great next to Luka" (translate - Luka will make you great).

I think Miami has good, young players FOR SURE. 

You think more highly of FVV and Siakam than I do, although I do respect them. Both situations will be attractive for a free agent, no doubt. 

But, the "who's better, you or Luka" doesn't have to be in the conversation, imho. The question of "who gets the ball" does. Does Giannis see himself as a combination of Shaq, Stoudamire and Garnett (for different reasons), as I do, or does he see himself as Lebron? I watched almost every minute of Milwaukee in the playoffs, and I came away thinking "meh...that dude needs to be paired with a PRIMARY ball-handler." To me, this was obvious, but until recently (I think we had another conversation about this recently in another thread) I had assumed Milwaukee was playing this way because they had no choice. After that earlier conversation we had, I admit there's a chance they play that way because Giannis WANTS to play that way. I'm not sure, either way. 

This is a slightly different (but the difference is important) conversation than "whose team would it be", I think. But, to address your point, if Giannis looks at Luka and decides he doesn't want to play here because he's worried that he might not be perceived unanimously as the face of the team, well...in THAT scenario, I'd expect him to stay in Milwaukee, myself.

[Jym]

It's not ALL about Giannis, it's about options. He's simply the best possible option. 

The approach, imo, is about not closing doors to a variety of team building choices over the next two years, and I have no trouble envisioning 20 options that are better than anything they might've conceivably passed up recently to maintain the flexibility. 

Obviously, Giannis is the ideal outcome, and good for them for throwing their chips in at the big-boy table. But, unlike the other free agency swings since 2011, most of which were LUDICROUS, this isn't the equivalent of throwing your daughter's college fund down on one hand of blackjack. If they get him, we have a DYNASTY on our hands. If they don't, there will be loads and loads of other options, many of which will be much, much better than anything they've passed up recently (that we know of). Unlike those other free agency situations, there's a 0% chance they walk away with nothing, because they're not STARTING with nothing.

But Dirkfan has a legitimate concern. Because as long As GA hope is around and as long as Mavs are targetting him, other options will be passed. If Giannis comes to 2021 free agency and decides to take a week or two to make a decision, there will not be many other options left for 35 mil of our cap space. That's why I am terrified about 2021 free agency.

Agreed
I want us to make a trade this season for Giannis or whoever it is that we want to keep longterm. Seems entirely too risky to just go in blind yet again 
If not us I hope Miami some how pulls off a trade for him (or he signs that supermax to stay) so we don't have to worry about the wait.

[KillerLeft]

But Dirkfan has a legitimate concern. Because as long As GA hope is around and as long as Mavs are targetting him, other options will be passed. If Giannis comes to 2021 free agency and decides to take a week or two to make a decision, there will not be many other options left for 35 mil of our cap space. That's why I am terrified about 2021 free agency.

Ok, noted. 

My retort would be: let's worry about that or chastise them for that if/when it ever happens. So far, they have passed up on NOTHING (that we know of) that I would have even gotten excited about. 

Maybe Giannis signs his Supermax next week. If so, I'd STILL be happy to be in this, exact position if I'm the Mavs. 

If a really, really good player changes hands at the deadline and the Mavs aren't interested (and it's clear that cap space next summer is the reasoning, not just that they have a differing opinion of this hypothetical player than we) then THAT could potentially be a valid gripe. I'm not positive they WOULD pass up that opportunity, tbh, but if they did, pointing it out would be valid. 

If, as you say, a Giannis swing takes them deep into free agency and they miss out on other top targets, then sure - that's a legit gripe, only...as you have pointed out, there might not be that many other top targets out there. This has happened to Dallas in the past, but again, that was because NOBODY wanted to play here then. The team sucked. This team will be attractive enough to where their 2nd, 3rd options will hang out and wait for the Giannis domino to fall, imo. I imagine ALL of the top free agents will be hoping to land in either Miami, Dallas or Toronto. 

I feel the same way about Dallas's own free agents - Richardson, THJ, etc. My assumption is that they'll like playing here enough to want to come back, at least a little. I don't think they'll be in a huge hurry to bail five minutes after free agency begins. If they do, that's also a valid complaint, but imo, in that scenario you probably have bigger problems to worry about than cap space. 

These potential future issues, to me, are not scary in the least, especially as an argument for locking in mediocre players NOW on long term deals. That's the worst case scenario, to me. I would rather have EVERYTHING above break wrong for the team than have mediocre players here overpaid NOW.

---

I want us to make a trade this season for Giannis or whoever it is that we want to keep longterm. Seems entirely too risky to just go in blind yet again 
If not us I hope Miami some how pulls off a trade for him (or he signs that supermax to stay) so we don't have to worry about the wait.

If a great player becomes available via trade, I fully expect them to assess their future with that player. There are DEFINITELY scenarios that, if they come up and the Mavs can get it done, would be worth using the cap space early (by building a trade built around an expirer). My point is that planning this way has put them in position to consider those choices. 

I'm not here to promise the Mavs aren't going to bungle this, I'm just saying that the position they're in today is better than the position they were in last month. The team is better, and they have options coming. More options than they ever, ever had during DIrk's career. 

I'm sorry, but I just don't think "the Mavs will probably mess this up, somehow" is a valid reason to forgo smart team building and load up on terrible contracts. Seeing what they're able to do with this flexibility, whether it be Giannis or something else, should be a fun thing, to me.

---

This is the part I want people to remember about my take, and probably what makes me see this differently than some:

Maybe Giannis signs his Supermax next week. If so, I'd STILL be happy to be in this, exact position if I'm the Mavs.

If they were treading water right now just for the slim possibility of adding ONE PLAYER, I'd be right there with you guys. But, they're getting better. A lot better. I'm not prepared to say they'll get Giannis (obviously) but I will stick my neck out and say that the flexibility they've created over the past couple of seasons, and the assets they've collected, will amount to a much, much better roster being in place when Luka signs his extension. And really, that's EVERYTHING. Give him a chance to win on that extension. That's the game. 

[Jason Terry]

If we traded Powell and Maxi we would be able to get Giannis even with JRich's cap hold.

Just thinking out loud...JRich's cap hold is $17mm.  I think the team would be better off getting him to opt into his $11.6mm and then doing an extension that overpays in the out years..  It is close, but I think you can trade Powell and S&T Hardaway and get to the $26.8mm match number for GA and retain Maxi.


So, KP/Giannis/DFS/JRich/Luka would be your starters and Maxi, Bey, Green, Terry, Brunson and Burke would make up the rest of the roster.  You'd want to operate over the cap and do things in the right order.  If so, you'd have the MLE, BAE and minimum slots and you would be hard capped (but it shouldn't be an issue).  I think the primary bench would be Maxi/Green/Brunson/Burke.  You'd really need Green to step up and you'd probably need a 4/3 type to replace Johnson using the MLE.

Edit:  BTW, did I mention that Duffy is the agent we'd be working with regarding the extension for JRich?

This is the template. Giannis/PG/Rudy/Otto any of them fit. This is the year we finally land a legit FA

Whats the best use of Dwight Powell? Look now? Trade deadline? After the season(might be tricky)? He’s such a good guy

[sefant]

There is also 1 East playoff scenario that could potentially close the Miami door, if Miami beats the Bucks a 2nd time in a row