(11-02-2020, 10:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: So @omahen I think you're making a really valid point. To make moves that bring good things onto the roster, you'll almost always have to give up some things, and usually they are things you'd prefer not to give up. You're absolutely right about that. We all draw those lines differently based on our own perceptions, but in general, fans tend to overvalue their teams' players.
But, I'll restate what I was saying the first week I found this place: I believe the Mavs are in the rare situation where they don't have to do anything unless they think it's a good idea. They could conceivably bring this entire team back and expect improvement because the entire core just got a huge dose of experience all at once. Every team gets better the longer they play together, but in the Mavs' case that effect is compounded by the fact that almost all of them were playoff virgins. I fully expect them to understand the "why" of things more during the regular season this time around when there's time to get reps. They'll understand more clearly what they're working towards, and consequently, I believe they'll be more ready when the playoffs come back around.
And honestly, I think there's a chance that a large amount of continuity is their BEST chance to improve, given the fast turnaround, shortened camp and condensed season. But that's a separate conversation than the one you're having about value.
Anyway, despite my thinking on the above, there IS a level of risk I could be enticed into taking. I'd do Hayward, if the price tag and swap is reasonable, for example. I'd do OPJ if Hardaway wasn't outgoing. Etc, etc. But, the team's arrow is pointing up, the cap is in great shape, and you've got a lot of potential over the next 12 months to find a home run of a deal, or a triple, or at least an off the wall double. Those possibilities, as a one-time, temporary fall back, would make me feel justified in being extra cautious in the short term. I think one version of them winning the transaction game this off-season (and again, ONLY this off-season) is to simply not LOSE the transaction game.
I agree in general. I am not pushing to trade because of a trade itself. All the trades I propose are making us better imho. But I am trying to put realistic price it would take to get players. And here we quickly find out every trade idea we have on the table in this forum is in the end rejected, because you don't want to give up ANYTHING to make a deal. You say you'd do Hayward if the price is reasonable. Well, "reasonable" is Curry and Kleber, because Boston will not take Wright and Powell and you have to switch salary to trade for him. "Reasonable" is dumping Wright, Powell and Jackson to create cap space, which of course would cost several draft picks. And then all of these are show stoppers for you. So the only conclusion I can take is, that (other some minor tweaks) the only acceptable scenario for you is waiting for Giannis pipedream.
You are right we have two offseasons to build a team. But time is also ticking away and all options are theoretical. If you have one option on the table, you can reject it and wait for another or you can accept it. But number of possibilities will shrink as time will go by and you will be rejecting offers. Everything you are writing is leading me to believe, your plan is actually plan Giannis. Because you would do something else only if it would be an offer impossible to reject. An offer that is highly unlikely to appear. So I really wish you good luck, if Giannis says no. I think in this case you will be ovepaing average players in 2021 FA just to get something. All of a sudden you would be pressed to offer "max contract to Hayward" because there will be no one else around and because 5 other "loosers" with cap space will be competing for him. Just like Mavs did in all those years after 2011.
I am not saying we have to go after Harris. But if Powell, Wright and THJ for Harris, Thybulle and FRP trade is on the table, I would be inclined to take it, because I think it makes us better in the long run. I am not saying we have to go after Hayward, but if Kleber + Curry for him (at 100 million for 4 years) is on the table, I would be inclined to do it, because it makes us better in the long run. If Oladipo is available for Wright, Kleber and picks, I would be inclined to do it, because I think it makes us better in the long run.
For once, I would really like to hear a reasonable trade you WOULD do. Not just put limits to players you think are interesting that the other team would never found acceptable.
(11-03-2020, 01:27 AM)SamStetz Wrote: I doubt OPJ opts out, but if Hayward might opt out to orchestrate a S&T why wouldn’t OPJ try the same thing? He’d be worth money money than Hayward because in 4 years he won’t be as old as Hayward so age wouldn’t be as big of a factor.
I think, if you are prepared to offer him a contract in the range of 80 mil for four seasons, he would consider it. Are you prepared to offer that?