(10-03-2020, 04:10 PM)omahen Wrote: You are very subjective here. Since you gave such a critical look at Dipo, let's have a critical look at OPJ. With the exception of first 15 games with Chicago, he never scored more than 15 ppg and he actually came close to that in one season only. His efficiency was not really great most of his career. Same as Dipo he was troubled by an injury and it is not clear yet if he can return to preinjury self (which was worse than preinjury Dipo). The only thing he is better at is 3 point shooting.If this is being critical of OPJ, and this is your argument, let me double down (on my doubled down, double down) on my want for OPJ .
OPJ salary is higher than Dipo, which automatically means it will take more salary on our side to make the deal work. I really have no idea why would Chicago trade him for what we have. He is their only wing. Moving him probably makes them worse and it doesn't look they are rebuilding. So I don't agree it will be cheaper to get him than Dipo.
There is no way they take Powell and Wright salary as that would require our picks without sending a good player back. We could offer THJ+Jackson. But they have a bunch of similar players to THJ like LaVine, White etc. So would you pay Kleber+Curry+Wright+picks for him?
The only true thing you said in there is he hasn't really been a 15ppg scorer. You're right, he did come close to that in the season where Wall and Beal were at the top and the big focuses (like he'd have here with KP and Luka). He was improving his scoring year after year until this last injury riddled season, after the trade to Chi, he showed what he could do with a bigger role on offense.
His efficiency was not really great most of his career? Are we looking at the same player? First, his 3% has been steadily good-to-stellar on great attempt numbers after his first 2 seasons. He's a career 93.3% assisted 3P shooter and that was much bigger when he was with Wall and Beal peaking at 96.6%. For comparison, THJ was 83.8% this year and Seth was 83.2% in his best year last year with Portland.
Now lets get to 2P efficiency cause that has to be where you're going with this. A career 52.8% 2P shooter where he's 68.6% from 0-3ft, 47% from 3-10ft, 44.4% from 10-16ft, and 45.5% from 16ft-3P (most of these numbers generally better in the seasons with Wall and Beal). For this season, THJ was 48.5% overall, 61.2% from 0-3ft, 35.1% from 3-10ft, 50.7% from 10-16ft, 44.8% from 16ft-3P.
Now you say "Same as Dipo he was troubled by an injury and it is not clear yet if he can return to preinjury self (which was worse than preinjury Dipo)". Only thing to gleen from that statement is that pre-injury OPJ was worse than pre-injury Dipo (meh). A shoulder injury followed by needing to get stitches in his mouth followed by an ankle sprain followed by a foot bruise is a string of bad luck with the injury bug which is no where near the same as Dipo with an injury that is likened to the achilles tear injury for athlete careers. OPJ was troubled with multiple minor injuries (except the shoulder thing, but that isn't an athlete career ending type thing), Dipo was troubled by AN injury. "It is not clear yet that he can return to preinjury self" you say? Well then, it isn't clear that Luka can fully recover from his injury either (Morris induced ankle sprain), or KP from his (Morris induced knee injury), or anyone from theirs.
Of course it will be cheaper to get him than Dipo. Chi got him for Portis, Parker and a protected 23 second. Just have to slightly beat that and Chi wins that series of trades. THJ alone beats that deal so your THJ and Jackson deal without picks works just fine (I've wanted multiple other players on their roster so have done deals for multiple players, however, using both TradeNBA and RealGM's trade checkers gives me a successful trade by swapping THJ for OPJ straight up, doesn't seem right though). They save lots of money and I would even tip them a 23 second unprotected to sweeten the deal and make their deal to get him whole (or better) on picks.
Did you just say you didn't think Chi was rebuilding? Are those really the words that came out of your brain? Please tell me it's a language barrier thing. They have been rebuilding since they let go of Butler and Rose who were their 2 reasons for reaching to where they got. If this year didn't show them that they have a LONG way to go, nothing will. Their fans know it, their media knows it, I think they know it too. Moving him possibly does make them worse on defense, esp if they trade for THJ, but defense is the one thing they can afford to lose on that team.
THJ + Jackson + 23 second is pretty close if not the best offer they get for OPJ IMO. That, to me, is fully worth it. If they want to throw in a Wright for Young swap as well, I'm all ears, while we're at it, we can throw in a Curry for Satoransky swap as well.
The rest of this isn't directed to you Omahen, but it needs to be said. I don't view OPJ as a 3rd best offensive player type. I think he's an amazing bail out option and at least just as-good-as-THJ was on offense from this year guy. Add on top of that, him being a really good defender, and we have a player who is perfect for the team we have going forward. Resign him to a $15-18M/yr deal (hopefully starting at $18M and declining every year or $16M flat for 3 years) the following offseason and we have a third core guy (hopefully not 3rd best, but 3rd in number) for a few highly productive years.