How is 24 not already retired

[bartlettbear]

Points Per Game
1.  Mark Aguirre 24.6
2. Luka Dončić 24.0
3. Dirk Nowitzki 20.7
4. Jamal Mashburn 19.9
5. Michael Finley 19.8
6. Jim Jackson 19.6
7. Rolando Blackman 19.2
8. Monta Ellis 19.0
9. Harrison Barnes 18.7
10. Jay Vincent 16.9
16.9

---

He is the third best Mavs player of all time putting Luka ahead of him.

People say he was trouble in the locker room but he went to Pistons and they won title because of him so maybe other were really to blame here.

[SleepingHero]

Pretty sure the way Aguirre left kinda tainted his tenure with the Mavs. He also went on to win with the Pistons, which even further rubbed salt in the wounds.

[bartlettbear]

Yes so let bygones be bygones not all his fault if he was able to win in Detroit.

[Reunion Mav Old]

Listen, I attended pretty much all of Mark Aguirre's games. He was good enough to have his jersey retired though he was my fourth favorite player on those 80's Maverick teams. He simply didn't endear himself to fans, coaches, teammates or anyone other than Magic and Isaiah and I suppose a few others. This happened while he was here and was even more apparent after he left. I never blamed him for getting hurt in game 7 against the Lakers in the Western Conference Championship. But again, it was Rolando Blackman who was our best player in that series and the one, along with Derek Harper, who did endear himself to everyone, much like Dirk and Jason Terry and Michael Finley did later. 

Conclusion, for reasons other than basketball skill, Mark never earned his place in our rafters. He was never going to have his number retired. Again, I was there most every game. There has been a thaw of the relationship in recent years. He was invited to spend time working with the team by Mark Cuban. He did work with the team. It went fairly well. But compared to guys like Blackman, Harper, Brad Davis, Michael Finley and others who have totally thrived post retirement working with the Mavs, Mark simply has not measured up.

Basketball skill alone, especially when you were blamed, approriately or not, for not beating the Lakers, does not get your jersey retired.

[SkenfromLMF]

Pretty sure the way Aguirre left kinda tainted his tenure with the Mavs. He also went on to win with the Pistons, which even further rubbed salt in the wounds.

It was his fault he lowered his value to the point that Dallas had to take on an even more malcontent in Dantley. I am not mad he was "injured"... I am mad he never wanted to come back to a team on the precipice. 24 Shouldn't be in the rafters on Aguirre's account PERIOD!

They could do a ceremony to honor both, but I would be deeply offended on part of Kobe and his family.

Please mark DO NOT SELL OUT to honor a quitter who was the finishing piece along with Rodman to accomplish the Motor City Back-to-Back.

[ItsGoTime]

I didn't even like the Mavs back then, but knew Aguirre screwed Dallas over hard. I hated Dallas cause they would beat my then favorite Spurs and Rockets.

[Luka_Magic]

Getting your jersey retired is about more than stats it's about your overall relationship with the franchise.

[Reunion Mav Old]

I didn't even like the Mavs back then, but knew Aguirre screwed Dallas over hard. I hated Dallas cause they would beat my then favorite Spurs and Rockets.

Yes they did!

[ItsGoTime]

I certainly hope he himself doesn't want his shirt retired after everything. Seems if you put the franchise through what he did, you should know you're not going to be honored regardless. If not, he should know now. Go ask Det to retire your # if you want your # retired, that's where you wanted to be and forced your way to.

[radioaktiv]

Nah.  Aguirre will be remembered as a Piston, and in the footnote, as a former Mav.
Also, 3rd best Mav?  I wouldn't put him ahead of Nash and Kidd, for starters.  Theirs are jerseys I'd retire first and they're not even a lock having spent their best years outside Dallas.

[Benskix2]

Should the Minnesota Timberwolves retire Jimmy Butlers number if he wins a championship in Miami?

[J817]

Should the Minnesota Timberwolves retire Jimmy Butlers number if he wins a championship in Miami?

It’s not the same thing, Mark spent 8 seasons staring in Dallas compared to his 5 seasons in Detroit coming off the bench as their sixth man. 

I was eight years old when he retired in 1993 so I can’t really say I am very knowledgeable with how things went while he was here. All I can go by is his stats and the stories from people who remember him. So if you guys say the fans weren’t fans of him then I’ll take that for what it’s worth I guess.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

His number should be retired in Detroit, more than Dallas. Isiah was instrumental in bringing Aguirre to Detroit, as they grew up together in Chicago. But it won't be retired there either. I mean, it's not like he's a HOFamer or anything. He was moved to the bench, for Rodman and they took off, during Detroit's run of B2B titles.

[bartlettbear]

He was better than Kidd, Nash , Harper or Blackman. If Mark was the issue why did team fall apart after he left. Results matter the end of the 80' s was not Mark fault the facts proved that. He went on to win while Mavs sucked without him.

Those Mavs teams were as good as any Mav team outside of 2011. They could just not best the Lakers.

All time leading scorer in ppg should get you something and he more than any other player put Mavs on tbe Map.

[ItsGoTime]

You asked how, we told you why. I don't have a problem with the decision because I agree that while it's about your play and tenure, it's also about who you were while here. You don't agree, others do, not sure this is a movement that would gain enough traction as it's been tried for a long time.

[TXBamanut]

I greatly appreciate Kobe, and this may not be a popular sentiment, but it feels like to me, that this retiring the number 24, the players switching numbers and all that are really more about the way he died than his accomplishments in the NBA?(Which were great and amazing, no doubt...no disrespect meant.)   He absolutely was greatly beloved and greatly respected...without question, but he's not alone on his level.

It seems to have a domino and escalation effect as well.  When I've worked with groups that are processing tragic sudden grief, the worst thing to put all of them in a room together to process.  For example, I was called in to deal with a middle school who had just lost 3 students in a tragic car accident.  The teachers had sent any student that was emotional to the lunchroom and when I got there, there was 100 students, some hysterical, but all greatly emotional, in one room feeding off of each other's grief.  It was horrendously unhealthy and was hard to deal with.

I think if we all stepped back a minute, put the feelings of grief aside for a minute, we can acknowledge that he was a great player, but we all know that if he hadn't died early, in a tragic way, and had just lived to be 82 and died of heart disease, that none of these players changing numbers and multiple franchises retiring his number would be happening.

I firmly believe that people have to process grief in the way best for them and that's a wide range of things, and if retiring the number is the thing, awesome...but I also counsel people dealing with grief NOT to make any large decisions with long reaching ramifications, no more major life changes that you don't have to make, until after the initial shock and some time has passed.  For example, don't change jobs or move for a year...

I think that the league and owners would do well to consider this as well.  That being said, again, that is meant as no disrespect to Kobe or in any way trying to diminish his legacy or anything.  I hope this doesn't offend anyone either...not my intent at all or to be insensitive.

[SkenfromLMF]

I greatly appreciate Kobe, and this may not be a popular sentiment, but it feels like to me, that this retiring the number 24, the players switching numbers and all that are really more about the way he died than his accomplishments in the NBA?(Which were great and amazing, no doubt...no disrespect meant.)   He absolutely was greatly beloved and greatly respected...without question, but he's not alone on his level.

It seems to have a domino and escalation effect as well.  When I've worked with groups that are processing tragic sudden grief, the worst thing to put all of them in a room together to process.  For example, I was called in to deal with a middle school who had just lost 3 students in a tragic car accident.  The teachers had sent any student that was emotional to the lunchroom and when I got there, there was 100 students, some hysterical, but all greatly emotional, in one room feeding off of each other's grief.  It was horrendously unhealthy and was hard to deal with.

I think if we all stepped back a minute, put the feelings of grief aside for a minute, we can acknowledge that he was a great player, but we all know that if he hadn't died early, in a tragic way, and had just lived to be 82 and died of heart disease, that none of these players changing numbers and multiple franchises retiring his number would be happening.

I firmly believe that people have to process grief in the way best for them and that's a wide range of things, and if retiring the number is the thing, awesome...but I also counsel people dealing with grief NOT to make any large decisions with long reaching ramifications, no more major life changes that you don't have to make, until after the initial shock and some time has passed.  For example, don't change jobs or move for a year...

I think that the league and owners would do well to consider this as well.  That being said, again, that is meant as no disrespect to Kobe or in any way trying to diminish his legacy or anything.  I hope this doesn't offend anyone either...not my intent at all or to be insensitive.

No worries... and thanks for your insights.

Outside of that...

No Way should Aguirre's 24 be placed in the rafters.

He was better than Kidd, Nash , Harper or Blackman. If  Mark was the issue why did team fall apart after he left.  Results matter the end of the 80' s was not Mark fault the facts proved that. He went on to win while Mavs sucked without him.

    Those Mavs teams were as good as any Mav team outside of 2011. They could just not best the Lakers.

All time leading scorer in ppg should get you something and he more than any other player put Mavs on tbe Map.

DISAGREEMENTS TO FOLLOW: 

1) The 2006 team was better than any of the Aguirre Mavs teams, and would make the case for the '07 team as well - just not as fervently. But yeah those mid-late 80's Mavs were great until Tarpley got hurt in 87-88.

2) Aguirre was NOT better than Kidd. You can reasonably make that case on Nash, Harper and Blackman, but including J-Kidd makes it foolishness.

Why did the Mavs fall apart after he left??? We thought Detlef Schrempf was a better fit for the team than Karl Malone (84), Don Carter/Sonju extended Tarpley when they should have prioritized Sam Perkins (88), ROY TARPLEY DID DRUGS (∞), and o yeah 24 got to Detroit in exchange for Adrian Dantley (see: Iguodala w/ Memphis)

Why did he win in Detroit?  The Pistons were good enough that he could come off the bench, and BETTER YET he volunteered to come off the bench for the Pistons which was WAAAAAAYYYY more mature than he EVER was in Dallas.

All-Time ppg gets you mentioned in the greatest of team history conversation, just not included among the monuments!