A Few Thoughts on Mavs 120, Hornets 123

[mavsluvr]

It is sad to watch a coach who has a ring and watched Dirk/JeT get a ton of close to the basket shots (along with long distance shots) now acting as if D'Antoni (who hasn't won a thing in his life) wrote the book on modern basketball.  This team struggles to hold leads late because we are not a great defensive team to begin with and in the half court (which is what most close games and playoff games come down to) we seem to have no clue what to run.  That is clearly on RC.

hakeem, I am a little confused by what you mean by failure to run half-court sets. If "half-court" is defined in its usual sense of non-transition offense, they run half-court sets all the time. Are you referring to offense based on shots inside the arc? Not seeming to know what to run seems to be largely a problem at the ends of close games. Are you suggesting it would be better if Rick called the plays in those situations rather than allowing Luka to do it?

Luka...I can't begin to say how lucky we are we have him. However he has certain bad habits.  The main thing is itching to look for his shot.  Yes the roster is not great, but the team won in Philly without him and nearly beat Boston. The roster is not dog meat either.  He takes too many bad shots for no reason at all.  That is on RC to correct and has to be corrected now before it is too late.  If he or the organization are scared of ruffling the feathers of modern day studs who are quick to demand trades, then that is not good either. 

From what we publicly know, it appears Rick is okay with allowing Luka to work through it. But it does appear to be a recurring issue. 


For an immediate fix, there is nothing.  Iggy might be too expensive.  The closest we have in terms of that size and length is Roby.  I know he is a rook and struggled in the pre season.  But we are still ahead in terms of our calender to return back to being a legit contender. I'd like the Mavs to throw him into the fire and see what we have there. 

I guess you mean after he has recovered from his foot injury?

It sounds like you think the Mavs should focus their offense on inside/mid-range shots, or at least have that constitute a bigger part of the plan? Or at least go to that in clutch situations, rather than have everyone jacking up long threes?

[omahen]

All I'm saying is that certain folks need the ball to stick to their hands.  CP3 is one of them.  He and Harden would have made a great pair too if CP3 realized that he had to take a subservient role.  Yet as per all accounts he was creating a lot of issues off the court.  So the ask is a capable ball handler who can spell Luka, can play defense, but will also willingly play off the ball when Luka is in the game.

I can't agree with your take on the Houston situation. CP3 was secondary ball handler. The quarelly that they had were not about him wanting to be the man. He pointed out that Harden wants to do too much by himslelf and that is bad for the team. Harden playing, all other 4 watching him create some magic. Sounds familiar? I totally agree with that. At least this is how I understood the situation in Houston.

CP3 has absolutely no problem sharing the ball in OKC, he is not the main guy. He plays second fiddle to a sophomore. But he takes over in clutch and wins games. A lot of them.

[dirkfansince1998]

It is beyond understanding to me, how this team can play perfectly ok basketball with Luka out

They struggled without Luka. Especially Wright and Brunson. Mavs had good game but they were badly exposed against Torontos full court press. Other teams adopted the same strategy and it seems like Luka and JJB are the only guards on the roster that can handle on ball pressure and double teams.

[ItsGoTime]

You literally wrote the description of CP3

I think for a period of time, this is the case with CP3, but as HF wrote, he eventually gets tired of not having the ball in his hands and becomes vocal about it.

[dirkfansince1998]

BTW I love JJB for what he has meant for this franchise, and yes he can still run an offense. His name will alwasy be there on the championship roster banner.  But the Mavs should not have brought him back.  He's  a total liability on defense and you can't run a team like Jerry...too loyal towards your vets.

Completly agree. I was in the gamethread and ranted about the lack of defense in the starting lineup. Powell, Doncic, Jackson and Barea. No defense.
Mavs have are forced to play zone when JJB and/or Boban are playing but it´s still not enough to hide them. JJB has oldman Dirks lateral quickness in a 5´10 body.

[omahen]

he eventually gets tired of not having the ball in his hands and becomes vocal about it

I don't think it is about having ball in his hands. It is about winning. Harden wasn't winning play-off series for Houston with his type of play. Ball has to be shared more, not just 4 players watching. I think this was what CP3 said.

Harden has ball for 20 seconds and then either throws a three or drives to the basket for a finish or pass. This is killing all normal players. To be there just to play defense and touch a ball every 5 minutes.

[ItsGoTime]

The quarrel that they had was not about him wanting to be the man. He pointed out that Harden wants to do too much by himself and that is bad for the team. Harden playing, all other 4 watching him create some magic.

CP3 has absolutely no problem sharing the ball in OKC, he is not the main guy. He plays second fiddle to a sophomore. But he takes over in clutch and wins games. A lot of them.

I feel that you and HF are basically saying the same thing, but you are disagreeing with him.

[omahen]

I feel that you and HF are basically saying the same thing, but you are disagreeing with him.

He is against player like CP3 and says Iggy is the man. I don't think Iggy is facilitator at all, he just plays defense and can score on some open looks.

[mavsluvr]

In any case, looks like this season is dedicated to building a foundation ad learning. I don't expect big moves. They will see what they have and go from there in the summer. I just hope they will try to improve the asset base by moving Lee and using TE.

It doesn't seem to me like they will pull the trigger this year, I agree, however, the validity of that thought is shaky IMO. If there are guys that can help long term and don't require too much to get, there is no reason to not pull the trigger right now during the season. Once they've identified the problems in our group (if they view what we're seeing as problems, which if they don't, I can only think it's because they think the problems we see will be fixed with more experience), they should be working to address those problems.

I think the Mavs would love to pull the trigger now if they saw a way to improve the team at an acceptable cost. I think it is more a matter of their probably not having the assets at this point to pull off anything that moves the needle to any substantial degree. You never know, they could come up with something. But I would be really surprised if they can do anything earthshaking during the season.

[ItsGoTime]

They struggled without Luka. Especially Wright and Brunson. Mavs had good game but they were badly exposed against Torontos full court press. Other teams adopted the same strategy and it seems like Luka and JJB are the only guards on the roster that can handle on ball pressure and double teams.

He said they were perfectly OK, not they were perfect. They won some games and lost some. I think that is OK. The full court press is a current problem, but Luka can break is just fine, and he is currently available. The situation being discussed is in half court sets, the ball handlers are "perfectly OK" with making decisions on their own. When Luka is in, they become less than that.

[omahen]

I think the Mavs would love to pull the trigger now if they saw a way to improve the team at an acceptable cost. I think it is more a matter of their probably not having the assets at this point to pull off anything that moves the needle to any substantial degree. You never know, they could come up with something. But I would be really surprised if they can do anything earthshaking during the season.

As you said. If opportunity for something great happens, you take it, of course. I just wouldn't squander our scarce assets for marginal improvements and/or half year rentals. We are not there yet, imho

[mtrot]

Defensive minded and can handle pressure, but will be comfortable playing off the ball too.

You literally wrote the description of CP3

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Last night I saw (minus JJB) every ball handler feeling the need to know where Luka is at all times and if he was working to get open, they better work to get him the ball. That is the perfect time to play 4 on 4 ball with the defense's best perimeter player fully out of the mix.

It is beyond understanding to me, how this team can play perfectly ok basketball with Luka out, but when he plays, all other guards not named Barea hide and just look for Luka all the time.

This.  It's like they are playing hot potato.  They'll pass up a wide open three to get the ball back to Luka for a contested 30 foot jumper.

[ItsGoTime]

But I would be really surprised if they can do anything earthshaking during the season.

Isn't that when they've done most of their best work though?

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He is against player like CP3 and says Iggy is the man. I don't think Iggy is facilitator at all, he just plays defense and can score on some open looks.

I don't think he wants Iggy to be a facilitator, I think he wants him to do what you said, so he wants him for a different reason, and doesn't want CP3 because of the role he believes CP3 wants to have. I'll let him explain further if it is needed.

I think it didn't work in Houston because he didn't have much of a say about when he got the ball. In OKC, it's him deferring to the sophomore and then deciding that the clutch is where he'll insert himself. I think there is enough of a difference there to make him happy with his situation in OKC (esp after coming out of such a place of disgruntlement). I don't know how Luka would do long-term with CP3 choosing when he gets the ball as opposed to Luka being that guy. Like KP though, it probably wouldn't eat at him as long as they're winning.

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I think the Mavs would love to pull the trigger now if they saw a way to improve the team at an acceptable cost.

I'm sure they are making and receiving calls, I wonder how serious they are taking it?

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I just wouldn't squander our scarce assets for marginal improvements and/or half year rentals. We are not there yet, imho

I fully agree, I think the use of the word marginal is the relative term that everyone has a different view on. It's fun being on a message board with so many different (not necessarily differing) views.

[mavsluvr]

But I would be really surprised if they can do anything earthshaking during the season.

Isn't that when they've done most of their best work though?

I don't think so. The Mavs have done the vast majority of their roster construction over the years in the summers, afaik.

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I think the Mavs would love to pull the trigger now if they saw a way to improve the team at an acceptable cost.

I'm sure they are making and receiving calls, I wonder how serious they are taking it?

I'm sure they are taking it seriously. Why wouldn't they be? That doesn't mean they are aggressively shopping players, except maybe Lee's expiring contract. They just don't have a lot in their purse that another team would be likely to give up a mouthwatering asset for. And any mid-season trade inevitably involves a disruption in chemistry for a period of time, so they may want to be conservative about making tweaks around the edges, in order to maintain continuity for their young team. 


Not saying they shouldn't make a trade. I just don't expect anything groundbreaking, in view of circumstances. Who knows, maybe I'll be wrong?

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Thanks for the thoughts.

I just want to say, thank you for this response (and really just your whole presence on the board). It is so perfect. I don't care if I ever disagree with you, I will always try to respect you for being so well mannered (and generally balanced) in your responses and takes

What a kind thing to say! Thanks, IGT.

[Scott41theMavs]

In any case, looks like this season is dedicated to building a foundation ad learning. I don't expect big moves. They will see what they have and go from there in the summer. I just hope they will try to improve the asset base by moving Lee and using TE.

It doesn't seem to me like they will pull the trigger this year, I agree, however, the validity of that thought is shaky IMO. If there are guys that can help long term and don't require too much to get, there is no reason to not pull the trigger right now during the season. Once they've identified the problems in our group (if they view what we're seeing as problems, which if they don't, I can only think it's because they think the problems we see will be fixed with more experience), they should be working to address those problems.

I think the Mavs would love to pull the trigger now if they saw a way to improve the team at an acceptable cost. I think it is more a matter of their probably not having the assets at this point to pull off anything that moves the needle to any substantial degree. You never know, they could come up with something. But I would be really surprised if they can do anything earthshaking during the season.

Not having the assets is yet another example of how monumentally fubar this offseason was. Just think if we had the roster we do, plus Favors. Or plus Brogdan. Or plus one or two more players of the same level and cost as Maxi and Wright.

The Mavs have one thing to show for having quixotically saved money this offseason - the trade exception. If they don't use it, then, as Darth Vader would say, Donnie's failure will be complete. Bet good money we don't use it.

One thing to consider - if the Mavs don't add any long-term assets by trade, will they have any cap room this summer? Having cap room could be a justification for not making a trade now - if they spend the cap room, of course.

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I am getting a little bit tired of Lukas post game interviews. It´s good to see that he acknowledges his bad habits and hero ball tendencies. But it is just frustrating to watch him make the same mistakes over and over again.

I liked this cause I agree that can be frustrating, up until the point when I think to myself that he is only 20 years old.

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Mavsluvr, thanks for the recap as always. Sorry no one else has acknowledged it yet - too many butthurt from last night's loss.

Thanks, Scott. I like the way you have presented your points.

Several points:

1) We can't win without two of our starters, even if one of them is somewhat questionable in that role (though increasingly solid pre-injury). I'll preach it over and over and over and over again - that's on the offseason.

I wouldn't say that we "can't" win without KP and THJ -- after all, we just did, against Brooklyn. In fact, part of the frustrating thing for me (and probably for them, too) is that they were in position to win, had a number of chances, and just didn't pull it out. It would actually be easier to understand if they had just gotten blown out by a clearly better team. But acknowledge that being without those two guys is a struggle.

2) No playmaker aside from Luka - that's on the offseason as well.

Barea, Seth, Wright (if healthy), and Brunson should have been able to absorb some of this responsibility. And, in fairness, Barea did, although somewhat at Luka's expense. Agree that there seems to be too much weight on Luka in this respect.

3) While I love the fact that we tanked for Luka, and he wouldn't be here without it, perhaps it wasn't such a great idea to tank last year when we didn't have our pick. Luka et al. seem to have some holdover from last year in not taking games seriously. Luka in Euroleague and the World Cup was one of the most clutch players in basketball history, and now he's not clutch?

I realize this is a debatable point, but I wouldn't say that Luka and some of his cohorts don't take games seriously. I would more say that they don't seem to value possessions as much they maybe should. In this regard, I think playoff experience would be good for them. Although it is also hard to explain away the Mavs' tendency, especially at home, to ease into games rather than coming out with force.

I don't know how to explain Luka's clutch performance (defining clutch as any period in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter and all overtimes in which the scores are within 5 points). Iirc, Luka seemed pretty clutch last season, although I have not checked stats to verify. Various reasons have been put forth by a lot of smart people. I tend to think it's not that he doesn't care. I would say more that it's a combination of wearing down and trying to do too much. He sometimes reminds me of Kobe -- just bombing away, regardless.

4) On one hand, I am sick and tired of people bashing Wright. He's hands-down our third-best player all-around (DFS is fourth, Maxi fifth, and Seth sixth). Rick didn't put him in because he was injured. On the other hand, the comments in the game thread about Wright, Brunson, and Jackson struggling in their roles were appropos. Be ready is great. But Marion and others have questioned the rag-doll tactics. It's got to stop. If it doesn't, Luka will have a new coach in a year or two.

I don't see any reason for anyone to bash Wright over this game. If he was hurt, he was hurt. I don't know what the comments about Brunson and Jackson in the game thread were, but from your comment, I infer that it had something to do with their not getting consistent roles and minutes. If that is it, I am wondering how the coach is supposed to adjust with two starters and another bench guy out. Carlisle alluded to playing Maxi and Powell as much as they could go, and having to use other players to fill in to give them a break. They both played long minutes. Maybe I am not understanding your point. Are you suggesting that Luka will try to force Carlisle out if Brunson, Wright, and Jackson aren't given defined roles in a set rotation? Tbh, I could see any or all of those guys not even being on the team next season, let alone claiming set minutes/responsibilities.


5) I'm really concerned about KP's knee. It has to be in really bad shape to justify his absence, and that's a pretty terrible thing for the Mavs. JOn notwithstanding, we can't win like we were without him.

Yes, leg injuries to Porzee are always concerning. The story on him in NY was a history of playing lights out for a couple of months and then being plagued by injuries the rest of the season. Having said that, someone semi-official mentioned that the Mavs were keeping him out in a desire to exercise an excess of caution. KP himself said he hopes to be back Wednesday. But Carlisle says he doesn't know when KP will be back, so there's that.

6) No big-man rotation with KP out. Guess why that is. That's right.

I wonder if the Mavs thought that Boban's playability would be less matchup-specific than it has been when they acquired him.

7) Rozier was the man on the court last night. Think about that. A player on the #$%@ing Charlotte Hornets having more testicular fortitude than the entire healthy Mavs roster. Go get someone with some dog in him!!!

Rozier did well, although perhaps Graham's going off was the bigger surprise. But we shouldn't pretend that Rozier and his team were some kind of juggernauts. They did surrender a 20-point lead and required overtime to wrench out a one-possession win. However, take your point that they were dogged and never hung their heads.

It's not just that this team has a long way to go. It's that this roster has a long way to go. Guess why that is. I'll give you a hint. It's not what bartlettbear (and Kammrath, in last night's game thread) thinks it is.

Not sure what BB and Kamm think it is, but believe that your view of the reason is that the Mavs squandered the offseason. The roster is better than I thought it would be at the beginning of the season, but agree that they are not a squad that looks capable of contending for a title this season, and don't think the Mavs are under any impression that it is. Also think the Mavs will try to upgrade in the next couple of seasons to get to a realistic contending position. I realize that there will be lessons to be learned from the offseason, and that will be worth attending to, but at this specific point in the season, it has a feel of crying over spilt milk. For the moment, the roster is what it is, and agree that the team could consider it an extremely successful season with this group if they managed to win a playoff series.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I just want to say, thank you for this response (and really just your whole presence on the board). It is so perfect. I don't care if I ever disagree with you, I will always try to respect you for being so well mannered (and generally balanced) in your responses and takes.

I second what IGT said. It's rare to have a poster who provides such a high level of quality content and then class on top of that. Thanks, ML!

[omahen]

One thing to consider - if the Mavs don't add any long-term assets by trade, will they have any cap room this summer? Having cap room could be a justification for not making a trade now - if they spend the cap room, of course.

Some, but not a lot. They have 108 mil commited in 12 players with contract in the summer of 2020. Add first rounder salary and any additional second rounders we might sign. Projected cap is at 116 mil.

[dirkfansince1998]

One thing to consider - if the Mavs don't add any long-term assets by trade, will they have any cap room this summer? Having cap room could be a justification for not making a trade now - if they spend the cap room, of course.

Some, but not a lot. They have 108 mil commited in 12 players with contract in the summer of 2020. Add first rounder salary and any additional second rounders we might sign. Projected cap is at 116 mil.

Makes more sense to stay over the cap and get the full MLE.

[Scott41theMavs]

One thing to consider - if the Mavs don't add any long-term assets by trade, will they have any cap room this summer? Having cap room could be a justification for not making a trade now - if they spend the cap room, of course.

Some, but not a lot. They have 108 mil commited in 12 players with contract in the summer of 2020. Add first rounder salary and any additional second rounders we might sign. Projected cap is at 116 mil.

Makes more sense to stay over the cap and get the full MLE.

In that event, it's hard to excuse any failure to acquire more rotation players for the TPE and/or Lee (I know they can't be combined; I'm speaking of using either or both in separate trades) plus sweeteners, ***especially*** if the target players expire in 2021.

[mavsluvr]

Not having the assets is yet another example of how monumentally fubar this offseason was. Just think if we had the roster we do, plus Favors. Or plus Brogdan. Or plus one or two more players of the same level and cost as Maxi and Wright.

The Mavs have one thing to show for having quixotically saved money this offseason - the trade exception. If they don't use it, then, as Darth Vader would say, Donnie's failure will be complete. Bet good money we don't use it.

One thing to consider - if the Mavs don't add any long-term assets by trade, will they have any cap room this summer? Having cap room could be a justification for not making a trade now - if they spend the cap room, of course.

Offseasons can't be finally evaluated a few months later, but I wouldn't say that this one was a complete failure, even if they don't use the TE. They did re-sign Porzingis, which was their most important move. Not all alternative scenarios involve greener grass. 


The real justification for not doing a trade is not finding any opportunities that they deem worth what they would have to give up. They shouldn't make a trade just for the sake of saying they did. Even just the use of the TE involves introducing one or more new elements into the team, taking on salary, and dispensing with a current player. Which may or may not be worth it. 

I am not caping for the front office, or for standing pat during the season. But don't think it's time to push the panic button yet -- this is a foundation building year, not their only chance at glory, which might justify a more desperate move. We will learn a lot more about this team by the summer, and there will be plenty of chances to point fingers at the MBT, if that turns out to be warranted!

[Scott41theMavs]

Not having the assets is yet another example of how monumentally fubar this offseason was. Just think if we had the roster we do, plus Favors. Or plus Brogdan. Or plus one or two more players of the same level and cost as Maxi and Wright.

The Mavs have one thing to show for having quixotically saved money this offseason - the trade exception. If they don't use it, then, as Darth Vader would say, Donnie's failure will be complete. Bet good money we don't use it.

One thing to consider - if the Mavs don't add any long-term assets by trade, will they have any cap room this summer? Having cap room could be a justification for not making a trade now - if they spend the cap room, of course.

Offseasons can't be finally evaluated a few months later, but I wouldn't say that this one was a complete failure, even if they don't use the TE. They did re-sign Porzingis, which was their most important move. Not all alternative scenarios involve greener grass.


The real justification for not doing a trade is not finding any opportunities that they deem worth what they would have to give up. They shouldn't make a trade just for the sake of saying they did. Even just the use of the TE involves introducing one or more new elements into the team, taking on salary, and dispensing with a current player. Which may or may not be worth it.

I am not caping for the front office, or for standing pat during the season. But don't think it's time to push the panic button yet -- this is a foundation building year, not their only chance at glory, which might justify a more desperate move. We will learn a lot more about this team by the summer, and there will be plenty of chances to point fingers at the MBT, if that turns out to be warranted!

I disagree from the standpoint that 1) the Mavs have to improve their roster, both now and in the medium term, and 2) if they don't make a trade, they aren't going to have anything more than the MLE to do so this summer. Another consideration is how important 2021 cap room is to them. If they place a premium on that, then you can forget about a THJ + pick trade this summer, because THJ's value is in his expiration, so you're very unlikely to get anything back if you're protecting 2021 cap room.

If the Mavs want cap room in 2021, and want to be competitive at an at least minimally acceptable level next year, I would say that a 2020 "we love our boys in blue" trade deadline is binarily and absolutely unacceptable to me as a Mavs fan. Not that Cuban cares what I think. But I will break things first if we don't make a trade at the deadline, and again if we don't throw out 2021 for a THJ/pick trade.