Ideal roles for the current roster

[Scott41theMavs]

Omahen has been speaking in terms of the numerical roles of the current players, as in, where they would fall in the pecking order of a contending team. I have always found that a useful way to talk about players and/or look at the roster needs. In assigning those numbers, remember Pat Riley's concept of "play eight, trust six." If the assigned number is lower than 8, they wouldn't play in the playoffs if you're really contending.

It's sure a lot more dire than it looked in November, when I would have likely assigned higher numbers to many of the non-Luka/Kai players.

Luka - best player on a contending team. Clearly a 1.
Kyrie - 2
Lively - 5 right now, should be a 4 as soon as next year. Incredible.
Exum - 5. I've seen people say he won't be effective in the playoffs. His pre-injury play calls an emphatic "BS" on that.

THJ - 7. Probably should be lower.
GW - 8, because he's already done that for the Celtics in the final four. Shame on those of us who anticipated higher, though.
Green - 9
DJJ - 9, if that.
Powell - 9. Yes, he's played well lately, and can help in a pinch. How much of last night's loss has to do with his absence?
Maxi - 10. Higher, as high as 7, if he can get healthy and reliable and regain his old form.
Hardy - 12.
Lawson - 12
OMax - 12 right now, but I wish this guy would get some burn, because I think his ceiling could be as high as 3 if they develop him and he responds well.
Curry - 13. Was once as high as 8, now old and washed.
Morris - 15
Holmes - n/a, evidently.

Lots of holes. Makes sense that Luka is frustrated. Imagine if they had whiffed on Lively or not gotten Exum - far worse.

[omahen]

Great recap. Get that number 3 and things might look completely different. I have no problem having Green at 6 (or 5 in starting lineup and Exum at 6)

[RGP1981]

Powell - 9. Yes, he's played well lately, and can help in a pinch. How much of last night's loss has to do with his absence?

Lots of holes. Makes sense that Luka is frustrated. Imagine if they had whiffed on Lively or not gotten Exum - far worse.

Nice exercise. Agreed with most of how you have them, except...

Dwight Powell should be #11-15 or preferably off the roster. He just simply cannot be the 1st choice backup Center on a serious contending team.

Morris and Curry should not be on the roster either.

[Nowitzki Way]

I like this exercise.  I'll rank mine, and when i do i'm keeping in mind what i think they would be for an average playoff team. Not just the Mavs.

As you've outlined, we don't currently have a 3. I'm not sure we have a 4. Big problem here.

Luka - 1 - star player on a championship contender
Kyrie  -2 - Really good 2nd star
Lively - 5-  He's a starting big at 19. Amazing. I think a 23 year old Lively is possibly a 3.

THJ - 7- He can come off anyone's bench and score. I would say he's a 6, but he's too inefficient.
Exum - 7- Bench glue guy on a playoff team. Plays defense, decent size, can drive to the hole. If his shot holds up, he's a 6.  Think Bruce Brown in Denver last year
GWill -8 - He's got playoff experience. He's an agitator. Supposedly had defensive pedigree. He's working his way towards a 9 and not in a playoff rotation.
DJJ - 8 - I think he can come off the bench for a playoff team. But only if his shot reverts back to early season form. If his 3point shot is off, he's out of the rotation

Thats it for playoff rotation guys on this team. I may even have GWill and DJJ too high. Not good.

Green - 9-  His 3 looks good lately. His defense is overrated. Supreme athlete with good court vision, but i need more from him on the offensive
Maxi - 9- Age and injuries catching up to him. If he's healthy he's a 7 or 8.
Seth - 10 - Too small to guard anyone. Shot is not consistent this year
Powell - 10 - Doesnt rebound and cant score without lobs. Unplayable
Hardy - 10 - Not ready
Omax 12- Not ready

[ballsrchr]

OK. Ok. I think one of the factors holding this team back is the coaching staff. I'll ignore that and list them as I think they should be used...on an average playoff team.

1. Luka, of course. But, if only he had a coach he trusts who who works with him and holds his nose to the grindstone he has a higher level--or two.
2. Kyrie. Certainly a good 2nd star, but he's not going to play the full season.
3.
4.
5. Lively. He will get better.
6. Exum. I would like to put him higher but he's got to round back into shape.
7. THJ. Since I call him "streaky Hardaway" you can see I would like better production out of him. Shot selection would be a plus.
8. DJJ. Coaches should work with him and let him know to relax and just do what he does.

9. Green. Once again the coaches should work with him and help him understand what is expected of him.
9. Maxi. I think he can move up if he stays healthy and gets back into the groove.
9. Gwill. He is what he is. If he can bring up his shot percentages he will be more playable.
10. Omax. He's not ready but he won't get ready if he doesn't play.
10. Powell. He's a good back up, dependable.
10. Hardy. Coaching would be nice. Does he have a coach? He has all the tools. We don't want him to turn into "streaky Hardy".
11. Seth. Too small, Not too old, but he's just playing by rote...and raking in his paycheck.
16. Holmes.
21. Morris. He's toast.

I'm probably missed somebody. Damn...I didn't forget coaching

[mvossman]

I find it amusing that folks can't convince themselves to put THJ at 6th when he is currently top 5 odds to win 6th man of the year. There are mentions of streaky and inefficient. His TS is 57 right now. That is in line with the other 6th man candidates. I can see the argument that you would prefer somebody who could distribute the ball more, but he is a classic 6th man.

1. Luka
2. Kyrie
4. Lively (he is already a top 75 player in EPM as a rookie)
5. Exum (The sample is small. If he can continue this level of play, he is good enough to be on a contending starting lineup)
6. THJ (classic 6th man)
8. DJJ (coming back down to earth. He is still our second best defender and a willing 3 point shooter)
8. Maxi (when healthy)
8. Powell (your typical contending backup center is not any better than Powell, especially when you look at the data)
9. Green (Still have hope he can become a quality rotation player. He was last season before the elbow)
10. GWill (A real disappointment. He is not contention rotation worthy right now)

The rest are depth and projects

[Reunion Mav]

I like the alternative opinion and the research based view. I keep watching with moderate expectation for all of these guys because we need several of them top to bottom to improve their performance in the roles this team needs them to play. We need to see this over the next 12 games till the All-Star break. Not sure we will but I am watching with hope. Even in sad down times like this overall season progress can be made.

[mvossman]

Nice exercise. Agreed with most of how you have them, except...

Dwight Powell should be #11-15 or preferably off the roster. He just simply cannot be the 1st choice backup Center on a serious contending team.

Morris and Curry should not be on the roster either.

Look at the backup center on most of the contenders.  They are nothing to write home about.  Powell currently has the highest net rating of the rotational players on the team.  Every year he has one of the better net ratings.  The best advanced stats all have him top 5 or 6 on the team right now and all of it has been saying he has been a quality NBA player for years.  This is not just a couple of months of noisy stats.  The sample size is huge.  At some point when there is this much data to say otherwise you might consider questioning your eye test.

[RGP1981]

Look at the backup center on most of the contenders.  They are nothing to write home about.  Powell currently has the highest net rating of the rotational players on the team.  Every year he has one of the better net ratings.  The best advanced stats all have him top 5 or 6 on the team right now and all of it has been saying he has been a quality NBA player for years.  This is not just a couple of months of noisy stats.  The sample size is huge.  At some point when there is this much data to say otherwise you might consider questioning your eye test.

Dwight Powell is a clown. I want the Mavs to be a serious contending team, one who plays winning basketball like clockwork and a well-oiled machine. You cannot make well-oiled winning machines with clowns, like Dwight or Boban. That's another that grinds my gears. I saw someone say the other day that Mavs were wrong to let Boban go becuase Boban would make Luka more serious and "hold him accountable", lol. I don't think I have laughed harder in the last 5 years. Boban is a clown, a meme. He only wants his paycheck, and there is nobody who will pay him as much as an NBA team, so he's willing to play whatever cheerleader or clown role he has to. What does Boban have to do with winning basketball? Beats me. I guess some fan-clowns are able to twist things they want to see it too. Like how some actually thought G-Will could be a starter PF next to Luka, lol. But to be fair to those who thought G-Will can be a starter, that is not half as bad as thinking that Boban could help Luka be a winner. :SMH:

[DanSchwartzgan]

Dwight Powell is a clown.

AND YET…..

We are 6-8 when he plays less than 10 minutes a game.  The O scores 123.9 per 100 when he’s in and only 116.8 when he’s not.  The D gives up 118.4 when he’s in and 118.9 when he’s not (82 games).  

We are +5.5 this season when he’s on the court (B-Ref).  In fact, we haven’t been negative in his court time in the last seven seasons.

We have much bigger problems.

[RGP1981]

AND YET…..

We are 6-8 when he plays less than 10 minutes a game.  The O scores 123.9 per 100 when he’s in and only 116.8 when he’s not.  The D gives up 118.4 when he’s in and 118.9 when he’s not (82 games).  

We are +5.5 this season when he’s on the court (B-Ref).  In fact, we haven’t been negative in his court time in the last seven seasons.

We have much bigger problems.

I don't want to debate this. I think the Mavs can do much better and have needs for much better. You don't. Good for you.

So the Mavs have supposedly not been negative in his court-time. Wow, fantastic, superb. Seems like a wonderful achievement. :SMH:

But what have you won and what have you improved on? Are you closer to winning a title after making WCF or closer to being a lottery team?

The Mavs fans like you remind me of Brian Scalabrine. Despite having the most talented offensive player in the league... You're no closer to Scalabrine than the Mavericks are to winning a title. :\

TBH, I now think that the only way Luka ever wins a title is if he ditches Texas for LA. I'm hoping your numbnuts of an FO will at least trade him to Utah instead of gifting the Lakers another star and more titles... cause he ain't winning diddly-squat here in Dallas.

[KillerLeft]

I don't want to debate this. I think the Mavs can do much better and have needs for much better. You don't. Good for you.

So the Mavs have supposedly not been negative in his court-time. Wow, fantastic, superb. Seems like a wonderful achievement.  :SMH:

But what have you won and what have you improved on? Are you closer to winning a title after making WCF or closer to being a non-lottery team?

The Mavs fans like you remind me of Brian Scalabrine. Despite having the most talented offensive player in the league... You're no closer to Scalabrine than the Mavericks are to winning a title. :\

Which is it, do you not "want to debate this" or do you want to make all of those points that are less convincing than what Dan brought up?

[RGP1981]

Which is it, do you not "want to debate this" or do you want to make all of points that are less convincing than what Dan brought up?

What convincing points did Dan bring up to make me think that Dwight Powell is less of a clown than he is?  Please explain, and please explain this vividly.

[KillerLeft]

AND YET…..

We are 6-8 when he plays less than 10 minutes a game.  The O scores 123.9 per 100 when he’s in and only 116.8 when he’s not.  The D gives up 118.4 when he’s in and 118.9 when he’s not (82 games).  

We are +5.5 this season when he’s on the court (B-Ref).  In fact, we haven’t been negative in his court time in the last seven seasons.

We have much bigger problems.

Here you go, Mr. Utah Jazz fan.

[KillerLeft]

TBH, I now think that the only way Luka ever wins a title is if he ditches Texas for LA. I'm hoping your numbnuts of an FO will at least trade him to Utah instead of gifting the Lakers another star and more titles... cause he ain't winning diddly-squat here in Dallas.

I don't understand why you would waste your time here. You clearly aren't remotely close to being a Mavericks fan. I get that trolling is fun every once in a while - I've done it myself. But to spend so much time making the same troll post - and worse, it's not even a good one because we all know there's zero chance of it ever happening...I don't get it.

[RGP1981]

Here you go, Mr. Utah Jazz fan.

Dwight is a clown. The Mavericks aren't sniffing a final with him as their first choice backup Center.

Can we make a bet about that? I will never post here again if they do. You offer up something similar, i.e., if you feel so strongly about Dwight.

---

I don't understand why you would waste your time here. You clearly aren't remotely close to being a Mavericks fan. I get that trolling is fun every once in a while - I've done it myself. But to spend so much time making the same troll post - and worse, it's not even a good one because we all know there's zero chance of it ever happening...I don't get it.

I'm a Luka fan. I'm not a Mavericks fan. I find myself in the very unfortunate position of being a Mavericks fan by default while Luka is here. Unfortunate, for this reason only, I have not come across so badly run a franchise before. "Badly" is an understatement actually. Anyway, what you don't understand is, I want you to win. I have no attachments to any players except Luka. So I call it like I see it with everyone else.

[KillerLeft]

Dwight is a clown. The Mavericks aren't sniffing a final with him as their first choice backup Center. 

Ooooooooh. Thanks, my dude. I didn't get it the first several times you called him a clown, but thankfully THIS TIME has finally landed. I'm finally enlightened. You, sir, have made a difference in the world.

[RGP1981]

Ooooooooh. Thanks, my dude. I didn't get it the first several times you called him a clown, but thankfully THIS TIME has finally landed. I'm finally enlightened. You, sir, have made a difference in the world.

I'm closer to Scalabrine than you are.

[Scott41theMavs]

Dwight is a clown. The Mavericks aren't sniffing a final with him as their first choice backup Center.

Can we make a bet about that? I will never post here again if they do. You offer up something similar, i.e., if you feel so strongly about Dwight.

---

I'm a Luka fan. I'm not a Mavericks fan. I find myself in the very unfortunate position of being a Mavericks fan by default while Luka is here. Unfortunate, for this reason only, I have not come across so badly run a franchise before. "Badly" is an understatement actually. Anyway, what you don't understand is, I want you to win. I have no attachments to any players except Luka. So I call it like I see it with everyone else.

As Markus was to Dirk, RGP is to Luka. Got it.

[RGP1981]

As Markus was to Dirk, RGP is to Luka. Got it.

I don't know who Markus is but I think the Mavs FO effed up badly with the Center position when Dirk was playing for you. So if Markus was as pissed off at your roster construction then as I am now, well, I empathize with him. Anyone with half a brain who was following the NBA in the early 2000s could see that someone like Tyson Chandler was exactly what Dirk needed next to him. Tyson's characteristics fit Dirk's characteristics. I could've given you that free advice from the moment Chandler entered the league in 2001, lol. The Mavs FO finally or luckily got Chandler years later, won the title, then traded him away. :SMH:

Last season, I was harping on about how Luka needed a long, mobile, rim-protecting, rim-runner at Center. Not hard to trade for, considering how bare the Mavs' closet is. The peeps on here and on other Mavs' sites kept saying 5-out, Dwight, or nada. Enter Dereck Lively as a rookie. Now none of those dumbasses acknowledge how wrong they were. And yet even Lively isn't fully ideal because he can't play defense on perimeter players. Still, he's leagues better than Dwight. And there's a lot of young kids out there who would fit better on this team than Dwight too. Analytics isn't everything, it's very important... but not if you are short sighted, and most importantly, if you can't see the bigger picture of how different pieces fit together.