I'm out on the 2023-24 season ....

[F Gump]

The more I see this team play, the more pointless this season becomes. To be frank, they are mediocre. A good game here and there, then lots of bad ones.

They are too small, too inefficient, too inconsistent. They don't defend. The coaching is pedestrian.

Although Lively was a good pick, the upper management has been quite inept in roster building. Each summer is an exercise in spending their biggest chunk of possible spending on a player that sucks. In 2021 it was Bullock, who had a fairly good latter half of 1st season here (and  really good playoff run), but otherwise was a spare until they paid SA a FRP to take him. In 2022 it was McGee, who they waived and will be paying for 5 years to go away. In 2023 it was G Williams. Instead of bringing help to the roster, they repeatedly bring baggage that gets in the way.

The cheapies are a mixed bag. Exum and DJJ have been helpful, but they were also in the mix with Powell (same old spareness, just at a cheaper price now), Morris, Curry. And is anyone excited that Kleber is going to be here for 2 more seasons after this one? The general observation is that they just don't know how to identify a good player from a meh one, and have to hope to luck into talent.

Luka trying to win with his hero ball (for the most part) raises the ceiling to win any game, but also is quite unreliable. He's still likely to get plenty of numbers, but he hasn't shown to be the foundation of an elite team to me. If there's a formula to build around him, this FO doesn't seem to know it.

I would want them to tank, and hope for another Lively, except the 2024 draft is thought to be incredibly sucky.

So the alternative is what? The vast majority of the players around Luka-Kyrie-Lively don't seem all that useful. Is there any reason they shouldn't be a mass seller rather than a buyer? Or do they even have anything to sell? If they had the chance, I think I would would get rid of most of the roster and start over.

I don't see the point in watching this crap, nor a route to altering it. 

If you think I'm wrong, let me know what the answer is.

[IamDougieFresh]

Only possible way to fix this is if the new ownership group takes full control and hires competent people. Cuban can’t do it.

[Scott41theMavs]

If you think I'm wrong, let me know what the answer is.

How about a competent NBA coach?

I agree with lots of what you're saying, but you're way underselling the Lively and Exum acquisitions.

[BigDirk41]

I turned the game off in the 3rd and I honestly struggle to enjoy watching them play. I agree with most of everything you said. I rarely missed a game in the Dirk days. Luka is a hell of a player, but I really don't enjoy watching him play hero ball every night. I don't see why other top players would want to play with him.

[F Gump]

How about a competent NBA coach?

I agree with lots of what you're saying, but you're way underselling the Lively and Exum acquisitions.

How so? I did fail to include Exum as a keeper, but I was positive about both. 

But if I amend what I said, is Luke-Kyrie-Lively-Exum as your core enough to take them anywhere this season? I'm still not seeing the potential to do much, nor the potential to add anyone who really can change the trajectory here.

Back in the day, Cuban was very boastful about how he would keep the Mavs from ever being on the "treadmill of mediocrity," yet it feels like that's about all we've seen for more than a decade, and it's hard to see how that can change ahead.

[ThisIStheYear]

These last two games have been brutal. Let’s bring Omax up and give him some run. Also, maybe Kleber as a starter next to Lively is worth a shot.

[omahen]

Not sure what you guys expected from this team. I thought they will be worse. Players are not the problem. Overall, I think they are playing quite nicely. Far better than last season, much faster. A lot of improvement. At the end of the day, you need a top end talent.

[Nowitzki Way]

I'll watch every game, religiously. But i've given up hope that they'll go anywhere this season. But i was saying this all off-season. I felt like we'd win 40-42 games with this roster.

Some blame Kidd, or Luka. Or guys underachieving. But its the roster. This team was not built properly. We have no size. No muscle. No rebounding. We have two ball dominant stars just doing their own thing.

Why do we play better when one of Luka or Kyrie is out? The offense seems to flow much better. The balls moves better. They have to figure this part out.

Last thing on this roster, as FGump pointed out, our free agent signings are horrible. From Delon Wright to Bullock to Javale to Grant Will. Curry is a failure. Why did we bring back Morris? This is just not a roster that can compete with the top 5 to 7 teams in the West. No to mention top 4 or 5 in the East.

[omahen]

This team was not built properly. 

I really agree with your post. Just a bit more optimistic look: This team was not built properly YET. One good change and things might fall in place. Iztok made great analysis of this game, that applies for whole season too. Mavs juggle with offense/defense along their stars. If they play THJ offense is usually better, but defense suffers. If they play defensive minded guys, offense usually suffers.

[Jason Terry]

Gump, the alternative is to let Lively and Omax grow and develop. Let’s ride out the year and see who belongs and doesn’t belong. This summer is the best time to buy/sell

Hardaway will have his most value ever this summer. Likely he needs to go. I’m personally out on Hardy, but he should have minimal trade value. Green has some trade value and maybe we could increase that by end of season. Williams value can only go up from here. Holmes becomes an expiring. Curry and Powell are whatever. Morris doesn’t matter.

Exum and DJJ were excellent signings. Lively and Omax many teams would love to have our draft. Nico did an excellent job adding to the Luka/Kyrie core. We just need one more summer of that

Expiring THJ, Holmes, Curry

Young players Hardy, Williams and Green

3 FRP’s and 3 SRP’s plus swaps

That’s plenty of ammo to go out and get two good players

Plus Kidd could be fired

The biggest thing this season is to see what we have and what we’re missing. I’m fine if we don’t make a move next week

[BigDirk41]

Gump, the alternative is to let Lively and Omax grow and develop. Let’s ride out the year and see who belongs and doesn’t belong. This summer is the best time to buy/sell

Hardaway will have his most value ever this summer. Likely he needs to go. I’m personally out on Hardy, but he should have minimal trade value. Green has some trade value and maybe we could increase that by end of season. Williams value can only go up from here. Holmes becomes an expiring. Curry and Powell are whatever. Morris doesn’t matter.

Exum and DJJ were excellent signings. Lively and Omax many teams would love to have our draft. Nico did an excellent job adding to the Luka/Kyrie core. We just need one more summer of that

Expiring THJ, Holmes, Curry

Young players Hardy, Williams and Green

3 FRP’s and 3 SRP’s plus swaps

That’s plenty of ammo to go out and get two good players

Plus Kidd could be fired

The biggest thing this season is to see what we have and what we’re missing. I’m fine if we don’t make a move next week

I like this plan a lot. This team isn't competing for a title this year so let's see what we have with the young players. Also F Gump and others are saying they are out on this season, not out forever. Their record is a little better than I expected, but they could still be a .500 team at the end. It's not like they are on pace for 55 wins or anything. This team isn't constructed correctly and honestly, I'm not sure what the right way to build a team around Luka is. We have our theories about 3/D players around him, but nobody has ever won a championship playing his style of ball. It's very similar to prime Harden and he never got it done. I think Luka is better than prime Harden, but I don't think it's a recipe for championships. I think they need to have a free flowing offense. Luka can still get his anytime he wants.

[youzigizag]

I understand the post. Mavs do seem to have some holes that will prevent them from seriously competing for a Championship this year.

But...I have followed this very board for 4+ years now and every year is the same thing. Experiment with line ups, win enough to stay in Playoff contention, look like trash a lot of times....then...after All-Star Break the team looks completely different.

Its happened 4 years prior. Doesnt mean it will happen this year. Doom Doom Doom and then the team looks playable after All-Star break.

It just would not surprise me if Lively/Maxi tandem starts to look like a well oiled machine in March.

Anyway. Im tired of the constant "next summer we have a war chest" or "next summer so and so is available"....its been a constant theme on here for 4 years now. 4 wasted years of Luka. This summer might actually be that summer...Im just tired of the wait approach that seems to be a theme around here and then we land MLE guy.

Luka is ready. Immature maybe....but ready. Get this guy serious talent asap.

[omahen]

This summer (if not earlier) they absolutely must bring in a credible starter level player. Anything less is a failure. They have 6 months to convince a guy he wants to be here.

[mvossman]

Gump, the alternative is to let Lively and Omax grow and develop. Let’s ride out the year and see who belongs and doesn’t belong. This summer is the best time to buy/sell

Hardaway will have his most value ever this summer. Likely he needs to go. I’m personally out on Hardy, but he should have minimal trade value. Green has some trade value and maybe we could increase that by end of season. Williams value can only go up from here. Holmes becomes an expiring. Curry and Powell are whatever. Morris doesn’t matter.

Exum and DJJ were excellent signings. Lively and Omax many teams would love to have our draft. Nico did an excellent job adding to the Luka/Kyrie core. We just need one more summer of that

Expiring THJ, Holmes, Curry

Young players Hardy, Williams and Green

3 FRP’s and 3 SRP’s plus swaps

That’s plenty of ammo to go out and get two good players

Plus Kidd could be fired

The biggest thing this season is to see what we have and what we’re missing. I’m fine if we don’t make a move next week

Excellent post.  I will add that most of our troubles are due to prior years.  This last offseason was a massive jump in competence.  I am going to credit it to Lindsey influence.  That means there is a strong reason to believe we will continue to have better offseasons in the future.

[youzigizag]

This summer (if not earlier) they absolutely must bring in a credible starter level player. Anything less is a failure. They have 6 months to convince a guy he wants to be here.

I am so over talking about the John Collins' and the PJ Williams' to this team.

Get Luka real talent.

[mvossman]

The more I see this team play, the more pointless this season becomes. To be frank, they are mediocre. A good game here and there, then lots of bad ones.

They are too small, too inefficient, too inconsistent. They don't defend. The coaching is pedestrian.

Although Lively was a good pick, the upper management has been quite inept in roster building. Each summer is an exercise in spending their biggest chunk of possible spending on a player that sucks. In 2021 it was Bullock, who had a fairly good latter half of 1st season here (and  really good playoff run), but otherwise was a spare until they paid SA a FRP to take him. In 2022 it was McGee, who they waived and will be paying for 5 years to go away. In 2023 it was G Williams. Instead of bringing help to the roster, they repeatedly bring baggage that gets in the way.

The cheapies are a mixed bag. Exum and DJJ have been helpful, but they were also in the mix with Powell (same old spareness, just at a cheaper price now), Morris, Curry. And is anyone excited that Kleber is going to be here for 2 more seasons after this one? The general observation is that they just don't know how to identify a good player from a meh one, and have to hope to luck into talent.

Luka trying to win with his hero ball (for the most part) raises the ceiling to win any game, but also is quite unreliable. He's still likely to get plenty of numbers, but he hasn't shown to be the foundation of an elite team to me. If there's a formula to build around him, this FO doesn't seem to know it.

I would want them to tank, and hope for another Lively, except the 2024 draft is thought to be incredibly sucky.

So the alternative is what? The vast majority of the players around Luka-Kyrie-Lively don't seem all that useful. Is there any reason they shouldn't be a mass seller rather than a buyer? Or do they even have anything to sell? If they had the chance, I think I would would get rid of most of the roster and start over.

I don't see the point in watching this crap, nor a route to altering it. 

If you think I'm wrong, let me know what the answer is.

I think you are doing a wild disservice to this recent offseason.  Comparing it to previous offseasons because of GWill is kind of ridiculous.  In the prior offseason the McGee signing was bad, but nothing compared to letting Brunson walk and we also traded a first for Wood.  Complete bust of an offseason.  This last offseason, we had a late lottery pick, the MLE and a first that we didn't use.  For those limited assets you are expecting maybe two rotational players (with luck one might turn into more in a couple years).  Instead we got three starters.  That is an insane win.  Gwill has been a bust so far, but it is totally outweighed by the wins, and if you compare to previous offseasons, its an even bigger win.

I don't know why you expected to contend this season after being a lottery team.  Mediocre is what you should have expected, and I think they are better than that.  Its hard to tell due to all of the injuries.  I think they are missing Exum more than is realized.

This team is younger and are about to have the most assets available to them since the KP trade.  With proper expectations set that it will take some time to recover from some of the prior offseason disasters, seems like there is plenty reason to stay invested into the team.

[loki]

I guess I had lower expectations going into the year. I think they're about right where they should be given that they drafted two 1st rounders instead of trading for veteran help. They're a borderline playoff/play-in team who could easily move up a few spots if things come together or tank if they have a bad stretch.

I really hope it's not another tank to end the year though. I think it would damage Luka's credibility and make it even harder to bring in talent.

[KillerLeft]

@FGump, I think part of the disconnect here stems from the idea you have expressed many times, which is that the Mavericks tanked for much longer last season than just the last couple of games. I never really bought that. I think they were really that bad.

From that perspective, that they were really that bad, this team is hugely and noticeably improved from last year, at least from the END of last year. Frankly, they are better than I expected them to be, and that is coming from someone who LOVED the off-season.

I think you raise a fair point about Luka not really demonstrating that he is the foundation of a great team. He absolutely has some limitations that are going to be challenging to build around, and no, it doesn’t seem like the Mavericks have figured out how to build around him based on the snapshot of today.

What’s really disappointing to me is that the way the team was designed to play during the Western Conference finals year was kind of it, in my opinion. Carlisle designed that team, even if Kidd was the one standing there his first year. Since then, Kidd has systemically changed many parts of the team’s DNA. The Mavericks seem to care very little about spacing these days. As a result, their offensive efficiency is plummeting year after year, and yet we are still acting like they have a good offense. They very obviously do not. Their defensive philosophy has changed from a modern one (which was ineffective) to an outmoded one (which is equally ineffective). I do like the trend of valuing athletic ability. It’s nice to have some better athletes on the roster for a change, but in the end that’s not worth enough.

What I would love to see, personally, is a coach like Carlisle teamed up with whoever was making decisions on the roster this past off-season. The moral of the story is that I think they are closer than you do. But, I do agree they are not going to have a happy ending to this season. Just not sure it was ever reasonable to expect one.

[F Gump]

Thank you all for all the thoughtful replies. There are some good points being made.

The outcome on G Williams is probably my biggest issue. He hasn't really filled any hole. And he's not a trade asset either. Again, a step backwards rather than forward. I hate the idea of again using picks to try to erase a mistake.

But Luka is also a major concern to me. His numbers are great (and should be, given his ball dominance), but the coaching staff sure hasn't gotten him to play hard on BOTH ends every possession, every game. As good as he is, he's very undisciplined, and he's now in year 6. Those are some bad habits being ingrained in his game, and these are years he (and the Mavs) will never get back. The clock is ticking.

[omahen]

I rather take a more positive approach. Luka did improve a lot. He complains way less and also improved his defense. Not to mention constant improvements on offense. Sure, it would do him even better if Mavs would have a positive culture like Memphis or Miami instead of letting him do whatever he wants. I guess we could even be lucky he is not taking bigger advantage of his status