Game 43: Boston Celtics (34-10) vs. Dallas Mavericks (24-19) 119-110 loss

[SleepingHero]

Classic game of Timmy giveth and Timmy taketh.

He basically kept them connected the entire 2nd quarter with his hot shooting. He almost singlehandedly destroyed any chance of a comeback with his 4pt play and then hero ball with a minute remaining where he drives 1 on 3 and gets blocked for literally no reason.

This was a bad reffing game. Incredibly inconsistent throughout. That definitely got Luka out of his rhythm. Despite the triple double Luka had a bad game. Like really bad. Couldn't get basically anything to fall at all. Pouting the whole game. Refused to run back. Can't do that against an actual contending team.

Maxi can still defend, but he's about as 1 dimensional as they come. Luka literally had to yell at him to make a play for an easy layup in the 4th. He blew several open 3s. He blew a wide open layup (though the pass was a bit late from Luka). We give DJJ a lot of flack for not being a good enough shooter to punish defenses. Maxi has entered that realm. Mavs have like 4 guys in this realm already. It's pretty tiring.

Green had a good game. I've become resigned to what he is and he is a really good 5th option that can sometimes be a 10th option.

GW gave basically zero the whole game. Dude let countless of Celtics blow by him. I'm quite shocked how much he regressed after the 10th game. He can't shoot. He can't move his feet. This is a cold stretch of epic proportions. 0-3 from 3 and he looks like he has a hitch in his shot. He looks nothing like the player he was in Boston nor the dude the Mavs had in the first 10 games of the season.

Lively had a fantastic hustle game with some nifty finishes. He had such a horrible moment in the 3rd with the wide open Brown 3.

Jason Kidd's offensive system really just is 3 pet plays for Luka+Kyrie and then iso ball. There was 1 possession where Timmy held the ball for I believe 13 seconds jab stepping and ended with a contested 22ft jumper that clanked off the. Jrue locked him up. The Celtics calmly brought the ball down for an open 3. How is that allowable at any point?

Finally, the FT disparity was immensely one sided. BOS 30 attempts to DAL 14. Luka got hacked more times than I can count but the other Mavs basically never got a whistle. Luka had 11 attempts. Kyrie got hit on more than one occasion. Grant got absolutely hacked to end the half. The 12 points off FT disparity is enough to flip the game.

Overall flush this one down the drain. Mavs shit the bed despite having probably the most favorable circumstances to play this Boston team.

[SleepingHero]

Tim MacMahon (@espn_macmahon)
Jason Kidd after Mavs’ loss to Celtics: “I think we were just a little bit frustrated with the officiating and we lost our focus. We’ve got to be better.”

Luka Doncic (33 points, 18 rebounds, 13 assists, minus-13) was whistled for the game’s lone technical in the second quarter.

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Landon Thomas (@sixfivelando)
Jason Kidd says they’ve talked about players complaining to refs “over and over” and players have to move on to the next play.

Kidd says maturity takes time and they’ve been inconsistent in that department getting caught up with officials instead of focusing on the game.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Maturity takes time. Maybe year 7 will be the time.

[Scott41theMavs]

Maturity takes time. Maybe year 7 will be the time.

Maybe Cuban will grow the maturity to realize that he gaffed his coach pick.

[dirkfansince1998]

I have so many questions? Why is GWill getting minutes no matter how bad he performs? Why can't OMax at least get a chance? Why did Powell lose his spot in the rotation after he played some of the best bball of his career?
Will the Mavs ever learn that you cannot help/double one pass away in the modern NBA? Will Luka and THJ ever realize that the weakside defender has to rotate to the corner?

[ThisIStheYear]

A lot of empty stats for Luka tonight. Worst plus minus on the team. Was a defensive sieve. Mostly, his defense consisted of trying to nock the ball out of the player blowing by him. It’s not a consistently successful defensive approach. He’s not the only Mav who relies on it. Kidd’s defensive schemes did Luka no favors leaving him in unfavorable matchups all night against quicker players. It’s a miracle he didn’t foul out. The ref swallowed the whistle a few times. Tatum dominated with excellent two way play. He scored 39 and was a defensive demon. All in all, I had low expectations. Jason Kidd is the coach.

And on offense, it seems the Mavs are out of the top 10 in offensive efficiency now. A Rick Carlisle team with Luka at PG would be number 1. Mavs have now lost two straight non competitive games after a decent homestand. They need the next two badly or risk falling out of the playoffs. I see shades of last year’s failed season.

[KillerLeft]

Kidd needs to go.

[SleepingHero]

@sixfivelando
Kyrie Irving on Jason Kidd’s comments about officiating distracted team’s focus:

“I think he’s entitled to that as our head coach. I agree with him in terms of the rhythm of the game kind of knocked us back.. talking to the refs and trying to figure out what they were seeing…”

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

Disappointed. Really thought since they had a few days off, and one of the best teams in the league was coming into town, the mavs would be motivated and on fire for this one. Guess I was wrong.

They are kinda trending similarly to last season. I know we traded for Kyrie last year, but with a hard schedule I could easily see them miss playoffs again this year if they continue like this.

---

Somebody has to play a class clown no?

You wound up being the clown..

[omahen]

I don't really understand all the complaining. I thought it was a good game, Boston is just (obviously) a better team. Both teams were similarly efficient from the floor, the big difference were the free throws. Luka didn't have a great shooting night, other than that I thought he played pretty well. Rebounded a lot, moved the ball well. Him making 5 more shots would be the difference in this game.

[IamDougieFresh]

I don't really understand all the complaining. I thought it was a good game, Boston is just (obviously) a better team. Both teams were similarly efficient from the floor, the big difference were the free throws. Luka didn't have a great shooting night, other than that I thought he played pretty well. Rebounded a lot, moved the ball well. Him making 5 more shots would be the difference in this game.

[Branduil]

This team goes as far as Jason Kidd takes them. And I can tell you right now that's not very far.

[omahen]

Far from impressed about some guy yelling at Mavs defense for every Boston basket made. Boston average ppg is 120 and Mavs kept them right there. Far from saying Mavs defense was excellent, but it also wasn't that bad as this guy is trying to show. There is a reason Boston is league leader. 4th best offense, second best defense. Boston has a (considerably) better team than Mavs.

[Chicagojk]

I don't really understand all the complaining. I thought it was a good game, Boston is just (obviously) a better team. Both teams were similarly efficient from the floor, the big difference were the free throws. Luka didn't have a great shooting night, other than that I thought he played pretty well. Rebounded a lot, moved the ball well. Him making 5 more shots would be the difference in this game.

I just want something more.   Luka having the ball is going to get good shots.  We have seen it for years.   He is going to score or create looks.  I just am growing tired of your main offense is him looking for the mismatch and doing his thing.  Next time down, Kyrie does his thing.   Is there a way to build a better mousetrap?   If your #3 is also a guy who can score 15-18 points in the future, will that player ever play to his max level here if this is the offense we are running.  If Luka is off, can he go more into distributer role and not shoot 30 times on a bad shooting night? Mavs are a little limited here with their current team but what happens when they add more talent?  

Not to spill old wounds, but Jalen is a top 5-10 player in the East this year for a good team.   KP is close to an all star if he played more games.  KP wasn't healthy here, so you can't put this all on the Mavs.   But would the Mavs ever have gotten peak play from both while in Dallas?  If not, why not?    It is not just one coach either.  Carlisle thought this was the best way to play as well.  Maybe it is.   Or maybe there is a way to play different and then do the Luka ball for stretches (IE end of games, hot streaks, important possessions).   

Let me add, Boston appears to me be the best team for me.  Even when they were short handed.  Such a benefit having Jrue, White and Brown being able to switch on perimeter players.  Then they have really good long creators on offense.   Just a really nice put together team.   They have been hardened through a lot of playoffs games and some really tough losses.   But they are really mentally tough now.   

For me, I would really look to not go small (especially with long stretches of Luka, KY and Hardaway together).  Hardaway is playing hard, but is limited.   They score plenty but it feels like they give up as much as they get.   I would look to throw some players into the fire and see how they respond.  I don't think Omax is ready, but I wouldn't be against giving him small runs to see how he handles it.

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Let me add, Green had some tough misses. I am never going to complain if he looks to be aggressive. 11 shots in 38 minutes is probably a little low. I thought he looked pretty good. I still think there are times where his defense is overrated. He tries and plays hard but there are just a few things that just minimizes his energy.

[HoosierDaddyKidd]

I just want something more.   Luka having the ball is going to get good shots.  We have seen it for years.   He is going to score or create looks.  I just am growing tired of your main offense is him looking for the mismatch and doing his thing.  Next time down, Kyrie does his thing.   Is there a way to build a better mousetrap?   If your #3 is also a guy who can score 15-18 points in the future, will that player ever play to his max level here if this is the offense we are running.  If Luka is off, can he go more into distributer role and not shoot 30 times on a bad shooting night? Mavs are a little limited here with their current team but what happens when they add more talent?  

Not to spill old wounds, but Jalen is a top 5-10 player in the East this year for a good team.   KP is close to an all star if he played more games.  KP wasn't healthy here, so you can't put this all on the Mavs.   But would the Mavs ever have gotten peak play from both while in Dallas?  If not, why not?    It is not just one coach either.  Carlisle thought this was the best way to play as well.  Maybe it is.   Or maybe there is a way to play different and then do the Luka ball for stretches (IE end of games, hot streaks, important possessions).   

Let me add, Boston appears to me be the best team for me.  Even when they were short handed.  Such a benefit having Jrue, White and Brown being able to switch on perimeter players.  Then they have really good long creators on offense.   Just a really nice put together team.   They have been hardened through a lot of playoffs games and some really tough losses.   But they are really mentally tough now.   

For me, I would really look to not go small (especially with long stretches of Luka, KY and Hardaway together).  Hardaway is playing hard, but is limited.   They score plenty but it feels like they give up as much as they get.   I would look to throw some players into the fire and see how they respond.  I don't think Omax is ready, but I wouldn't be against giving him small runs to see how he handles it.

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Let me add, Green had some tough misses.  I am never going to complain if he looks to be aggressive.  11 shots in 38 minutes is probably a little low.    I thought he looked pretty good.  I still think there are times where his defense is overrated.  He tries and plays hard but there are just a few things that just minimizes his energy.

Good analysis. As long as Luka has the keys to the car, this is the conundrum. He knows only how to play one way, to dominate the rock. If he feels he's not getting any help, and they are in jeopardy of losing the game, he's taking over. He's a great player, but difficult to play with.

[Jason Terry]

Glass half full: Kyrie and Nico have a great relationship that goes back decades. You see them talking all the time. Even in the suite when Kyrie was hurt not long ago. If Kidd needs to go end of season i have confidence that Nico will get the support from the locker room he needs in order to make a move like that. It’s dangerous to fire a players coach. It may be necessary and the best path forward though

Luka on the other hand is it’s own thing. We are at the mercy of his maturity when it comes to what is our ceiling. We have less control over this. And if we do have some control over it it would come from coaching. Could also bring in another veteran player who has credibility

[Jason Terry]

I just want something more.   Luka having the ball is going to get good shots.  We have seen it for years.   He is going to score or create looks.  I just am growing tired of your main offense is him looking for the mismatch and doing his thing.  Next time down, Kyrie does his thing.   Is there a way to build a better mousetrap?   If your #3 is also a guy who can score 15-18 points in the future, will that player ever play to his max level here if this is the offense we are running.  If Luka is off, can he go more into distributer role and not shoot 30 times on a bad shooting night? Mavs are a little limited here with their current team but what happens when they add more talent?  

Not to spill old wounds, but Jalen is a top 5-10 player in the East this year for a good team.   KP is close to an all star if he played more games.  KP wasn't healthy here, so you can't put this all on the Mavs.   But would the Mavs ever have gotten peak play from both while in Dallas?  If not, why not?    It is not just one coach either.  Carlisle thought this was the best way to play as well.  Maybe it is.   Or maybe there is a way to play different and then do the Luka ball for stretches (IE end of games, hot streaks, important possessions).   

Let me add, Boston appears to me be the best team for me.  Even when they were short handed.  Such a benefit having Jrue, White and Brown being able to switch on perimeter players.  Then they have really good long creators on offense.   Just a really nice put together team.   They have been hardened through a lot of playoffs games and some really tough losses.   But they are really mentally tough now.   

For me, I would really look to not go small (especially with long stretches of Luka, KY and Hardaway together).  Hardaway is playing hard, but is limited.   They score plenty but it feels like they give up as much as they get.   I would look to throw some players into the fire and see how they respond.  I don't think Omax is ready, but I wouldn't be against giving him small runs to see how he handles it.

---

Let me add, Green had some tough misses.  I am never going to complain if he looks to be aggressive.  11 shots in 38 minutes is probably a little low.    I thought he looked pretty good.  I still think there are times where his defense is overrated.  He tries and plays hard but there are just a few things that just minimizes his energy.

The Luka/Kyrie Harden-ball and the PnR action are fine. We have success at a high level. Every team in the league does those things. But we need more. We can’t run that the whole game. The successful teams we play share the ball more and it causes their role players to play better. We knew in the first half that Luka was having a bad night. We need to be able to go away from him and have an alternative plan in these situations. 

The tricky thing is: when Luka has these games like this he totally disengages defensively. A true great NBA player would double down and find a way to effect the game defensively. Can’t do that when you let the refs get in your head. 

There has to be some sort of sharing offense we could run when 1) Luka has an off night 2) shots aren’t falling 3) refs are screwing us 

We need cuts to the basket. Some sort of movement to make the defense work. Players who can drive to the basket with the ball. Actual plays being run that aren’t a PnR variation. Luka more as a distributor and him being involved off ball with movement and spot up shooting
 
Boston is the best team in the league. I don’t care what the listed heights say…..White and Jrue play bigger than any of Green, Hardy, Kyrie, THJ. I think the formula is to only have one(maybe two) Kyrie sized players. Exum plays much bigger and is closer to Jrue/White in how he’s a bigger presence. The Celtics size was a problem (same as other teams) and that’s the direction we must go 

And yes. Omax can’t be worse than Williams/Maxi/Hardy offensively. Put him out there for a 3 min stretch in the middle of the game when we can’t get stops and see what happens

[omahen]

I just want something more.   Luka having the ball is going to get good shots.  We have seen it for years.   He is going to score or create looks.  I just am growing tired of your main offense is him looking for the mismatch and doing his thing.  Next time down, Kyrie does his thing.   Is there a way to build a better mousetrap?   If your #3 is also a guy who can score 15-18 points in the future, will that player ever play to his max level here if this is the offense we are running.  If Luka is off, can he go more into distributer role and not shoot 30 times on a bad shooting night? Mavs are a little limited here with their current team but what happens when they add more talent?  

Not to spill old wounds, but Jalen is a top 5-10 player in the East this year for a good team.   KP is close to an all star if he played more games.  KP wasn't healthy here, so you can't put this all on the Mavs.   But would the Mavs ever have gotten peak play from both while in Dallas?  If not, why not?    It is not just one coach either.  Carlisle thought this was the best way to play as well.  Maybe it is.   Or maybe there is a way to play different and then do the Luka ball for stretches (IE end of games, hot streaks, important possessions).   

Let me add, Boston appears to me be the best team for me.  Even when they were short handed.  Such a benefit having Jrue, White and Brown being able to switch on perimeter players.  Then they have really good long creators on offense.   Just a really nice put together team.   They have been hardened through a lot of playoffs games and some really tough losses.   But they are really mentally tough now.   

For me, I would really look to not go small (especially with long stretches of Luka, KY and Hardaway together).  Hardaway is playing hard, but is limited.   They score plenty but it feels like they give up as much as they get.   I would look to throw some players into the fire and see how they respond.  I don't think Omax is ready, but I wouldn't be against giving him small runs to see how he handles it.

---

Let me add, Green had some tough misses.  I am never going to complain if he looks to be aggressive.  11 shots in 38 minutes is probably a little low.    I thought he looked pretty good.  I still think there are times where his defense is overrated.  He tries and plays hard but there are just a few things that just minimizes his energy.

I think Luka led offense will likely remain what it is. Hunting mismatches and then capitalizing either one on one or 4 vs 3 if they double him. Teams are being successful if they are able to limit Luka one on one. I don't think he was particularly forcing it in this game. Most of his shots were good shots, he just missed a lot. Unusually a lot at the rim. It happens. Took less threes than average and a couple of them were wide open. As I said before - if he would hit 5 of those relatively good shots, Mavs would likely win this one. The positive thing is Mavs are playing much faster and are far less boring than last season. I don't think the positives are mentioned frequently enough, although there are plenty.

I don't think Boston really played any different than Mavs. Their two stars were hunting mismatches and scoring or sharing. Basic difference is, they have far better "other three" players than Mavs. Playoff basketball usually comes to this kind of play. Boston of course also has far better defenders accross the line-up.

Difficult what Brunson would be in Dallas. Are we sure he was capable of this kind of performances 2 years ago? He is really putting in work and developing non stop. He is basically playing like a "poor man Luka" now. Shooting a little bit less at a little bit lower efficiency and passing a bit less. KP obviously plays a lot different role than he wanted to play in Dallas. He accepted he is third to fifth guy on offense and only takes high quality shots. That was not the case in Dallas. He said in the last interview Luka and him were basically "fighting" a bit, who is the alpha. Wanting to prove themselves. On the other hand we have a bunch of role players that really thrive next to Luka. Also some examples (Wright, JRich) that didn't. Still a mistery what is going on with GW, but difficult to point that on Luka. 

I think Luka is capable of changing his game, when he has capable players around him. Once he sees he needs to change it. He is obviously the alpha and will remain such. So, any other "alpha want to be" will need to step back a little bit, just like Kyrie did. Could probably have higher stats being the guy on some other teams, but with lesser chance of success. But, there are still enough touches and shots to be shared. THJ is shooting almost 15 shots per game for 18 ppg. There is the space for that third best guy. He just needs to be a better defender than THJ. I think this is the single biggest improvement Mavs can make. 

Since Mavs had so many injuries, it is really difficult to compare shot distribution among starters. Tatum and Brown take 38 shots on average compared to 43 from Luka and Kyrie. Bostons other 3 starters (KP, JRue and White) take 35 shots combined. Mavs have THJ taking 15 shots, the rest is all flat because of such high fluctuations of roles and minutes played due to injuries. 

I think ideal team around Luka would be: 
Semi star creator, capable to take over when Luka is out. Ideally also good defender.
Three wings that can defend, shoot at least decently and are capable of attacking a close-out. One of them primary guard defender and one of them primary big wing defender. Height is an advantage. Exum has proven to be good enough for that role. Big wing is what is missing, imho.
Rim running center.
Rest of team are just lesser variations of above.

[sefant]

0-2 since Kidd removed +/- darlings Lawson and Dwight Powell from the rotation 
 


Last 15 games

Powell on 125.3 OffRtg
Powell off 111.5 OffRtg

Powell on 105.1 DefRtg
Powell off 119.3 DefRtg

Lawson on 122.2 OffRtg
Lawson off 116.3 OffRtg

Lawson on 104.1 DefRtg
Lawson off 117.1 DefRtg

[DanSchwartzgan]

I just want something more.    

For me, I would really look to not go small (especially with long stretches of Luka, KY and Hardaway together).  Hardaway is playing hard, but is limited.   They score plenty but it feels like they give up as much as they get.    

Good stuff on the Luka conundrum.  

As to the above, when we talk about "6' 8" or taller and can dribble" and specific names get mentioned, people often say "he's not any better than THJ".  But, if that guy can negate the need for THJ, you eliminate this lineup (and variations that are even worse).  You put more size and presumably more rebounding on the floor.  Even if the guy does nothing more than the "THJ waive" at 3 point shooters, he'll at least be 3-4 inches closer to the release point (sarcasm alert...I just wanted to say the words "THJ waive".  Luka is even worse BTW.  We are so susceptible to an extra pass or two.  Our aggressive defenders fly into the first row and THJ/Luka are in the paint "waiving" at wide open shooters).

I interpret "and can dribble" to mean the player can create for himself and others.  That just isn't in Hardaway's wheelhouse, but everyone else is so limited that he has to play.  We need to put 3 defenders on the floor and you can't get there with THJ being a critical offensive cog.  Even Kuzma (for example) out there getting cardio half the game lets you keep two of Luka, Kyrie, Kuzma on the floor with any two of them able to create for themselves and others.  The extra size also lets you keep your on-ball defenders on the floor without being so undersized.