A Few Thoughts on Mavs 106, Kings 110

[mavsluvr]

The Mavs have themselves to blame for the loss, and should not just sit back and feel like they did a great job but the refs stole the game. The Mavericks should be better. I understand why Carlisle is disappointed.

Exactly. The officiating was poor, but we’re the better team and they were without 2 of their best players.

This loss is on us, not the terrible refs.

As always, enjoy your insightful game wrapups!

Thanks, embellisher! Always glad to see you in these threads.

[Kammrath]

Back in the day, Barea used to drive me crazy (as a player, not as a person). It seemed to me like all he did was pound the ball for twenty seconds, and then call his own number. But, over the years, he has come to be one of my favorite Mavs

JJB used to be TERRIBLE (even a good portion of the championship year). He has come a LONG way as a player. He is legit now, basically since 14-15 and his second stint in DAL.

[ClutchDirk]

As the former President of the Dump Barea Club I was totally wrong on him...when he came back all I would see through my tainted eyes was the excessive ball pounding for 20 secs also...I thought he never passed the ball...people on the Minny forums said the same thing...I thought he couldn't be cured...many times I said dump him on a country road...

Then he went on a tear midseason the last playoff year and was walking on water it seemed...perfect passes and couldn't miss a shot...I said after that I would never bash him again...late that season he put the team on his back and carried us to the playoffs...

Barea this year did not complain about salary or minutes played...instead he has been a true team first professional while mentoring those who took his role...

#respect

Top 10 Maverick all-time IMO...

[mavsluvr]

As the former President of the Dump Barea Club I was totally wrong on him...when he came back all I would see through my tainted eyes was the excessive ball pounding for 20 secs also...I thought he never passed the ball...people on the Minny forums said the same thing...I thought he couldn't be cured...many times I said dump him on a country road...

Then he went on a tear midseason the last playoff year and was walking on water it seemed...perfect passes and couldn't miss a shot...I said after that I would never bash him again...late that season he put the team on his back and carried us to the playoffs...

Barea this year did not complain about salary or minutes played...instead he has been a true team first professional while mentoring those who took his role...

#respect

Top 10 Maverick all-time IMO...

The former president of the Dump Barea Club, lol. 

I loved the way he frustrated the Lakers in the 2011 second-round series. He either danced right by them to the basket, or got the ball to Tyson Chandler for a dunk, over and over. Andrew Bynum got so frustrated, he took Barea out and got suspended for five games, hahaha. Those were the days.

[mavsluvr]

Back in the day, Barea used to drive me crazy (as a player, not as a person). It seemed to me like all he did was pound the ball for twenty seconds, and then call his own number. But, over the years, he has come to be one of my favorite Mavs

JJB used to be TERRIBLE (even a good portion of the championship year). He has come a LONG way as a player. He is legit now, basically since 14-15 and his second stint in DAL.

Agree that he has made a quantum leap. At least.

[mavsluvr]

7th not called foul after which Luka went ballistic and earn T:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELYSFXkWsAEAQDg.jpg:large

This is not light bump or gently kiss this is full power attack...  and was not seein by 3 refs ...  nice

If somebody don't believe that it was 7th, go and watch reply slow motion and enjoy.

RC and LD are smart and well aware what illegal deference on LD could do to mavs. So maybe those theatrical shows could mean something else as well... What is 1T worth? 1FT....

I don't want to go into refs debate, just to indicate that as such judging is not good for the league neither for mavs if somebody think that's ok.

Refs are not responsible for mavs L this time, they came to easy in the game and that was the reason. Kings deserved that win.

And respect to @"mavsluvr", fine recap as always, nothing to add..

Thanks, Luk. Also, for sharing your views on the refs and the game.

[TXBamanut]

Look... I will continue to beat this drum forever...NBA officiating is the most incompetent travesty I've seen in professional sports.

When you see someone just pick up the ball and walk 3 steps with it, and start dribbling again, calmly....in the middle of the court...just to be so nonchalant about it, tells you how little the rules are actually thought about during the game by some players.  Malfunction...more like "who cares".

When Luka was driving at the end of the game, for 3 refs who are paid 6 figures to sit there, with only one action to follow truthfully, from 3 different angles to all miss this blatant foul with an unrestricted view on a point of emphasis....they should all be fired if the NBA was serious about officiating.  

Just like the non-travel call on LeBron and inbounding the ball in off the rim to yourself (both plays that would have been called by the refs in my kids 3rd grade Upwards basketball league) is tanamount to being an accountant and not knowing how to add or that you have to place a stamp on a letter to send in to the IRS or knowing what the send button on an email is....this isn't extreme hyperbole.

In terms of being a cop, it's two policemen watching robbers from a robbery that happened right in front of them and watching the criminals run off down the street with no resistance...then arresting the shop owner who saw them sit there eating their doughnut, not doing their job, because he was irate at their blatant apathy about their purpose....AND this happens ALL the time in the NBA.

"TXB, that's crazy...comparing them to police and watching a robbery happen and doing nothing...it's not that important."  Of course not, in the eternal scheme of life, but in the temporal reason they get paid, IT'S THEIR FREAKIN' JOB TO EXECUTE THAT VERY PRINCIPLE IN THEIR OWN CONTEXT.

Yet, when is the last time you ever heard about a referee getting fired?  Donaghy?  When's the last time the NBA came out and said "Well, that was too much, so Official so-and-so has been terminated"?  Until stuff like that starts happening, they will CONTINUE to "whatever" their jobs like this.

Cuban had the right idea to outsource it and put unbiased evaluations on it years ago, but NBA FO didn't want to do that because Silver and Stern didn't care about getting calls right, they just want to create drama and get ratings...the game is secondary to the $$$ (like LeBron and Kerr's righteous political ideals to LeBron's NBA shoe sales).  

The officials in the NBA are basically a less buffoonish version of the refs at professional "WRASTLIN'" matches that are just there to pretend to turn their back when the right guy gets an advantage to get the crowd going.

[mavsluvr]

Look... I will continue to beat this drum forever...NBA officiating is the most incompetent travesty I've seen in professional sports.

When you see someone just pick up the ball and walk 3 steps with it, and start dribbling again, calmly....in the middle of the court...just to be so nonchalant about it, tells you how little the rules are actually thought about during the game by some players.  Malfunction...more like "who cares".

When Luka was driving at the end of the game, for 3 refs who are paid 6 figures to sit there, with only one action to follow truthfully, from 3 different angles to all miss this blatant foul with an unrestricted view on a point of emphasis....they should all be fired if the NBA was serious about officiating.  

Just like the non-travel call on LeBron and inbounding the ball in off the rim to yourself (both plays that would have been called by the refs in my kids 3rd grade Upwards basketball league) is tanamount to being an accountant and not knowing how to add or that you have to place a stamp on a letter to send in to the IRS or knowing what the send button on an email is....this isn't extreme hyperbole.

In terms of being a cop, it's two policemen watching robbers from a robbery that happened right in front of them and watching the criminals run off down the street with no resistance...then arresting the shop owner who saw them sit there eating their doughnut, not doing their job, because he was irate at their blatant apathy about their purpose....AND this happens ALL the time in the NBA.

"TXB, that's crazy...comparing them to police and watching a robbery happen and doing nothing...it's not that important."  Of course not, in the eternal scheme of life, but in the temporal reason they get paid, IT'S THEIR FREAKIN' JOB TO EXECUTE THAT VERY PRINCIPLE IN THEIR OWN CONTEXT.

Yet, when is the last time you ever heard about a referee getting fired?  Donaghy?  When's the last time the NBA came out and said "Well, that was too much, so Official so-and-so has been terminated"?  Until stuff like that starts happening, they will CONTINUE to "whatever" their jobs like this.

Cuban had the right idea to outsource it and put unbiased evaluations on it years ago, but NBA FO didn't want to do that because Silver and Stern didn't care about getting calls right, they just want to create drama and get ratings...the game is secondary to the $$$ (like LeBron and Kerr's righteous political ideals to LeBron's NBA shoe sales).  

The officials in the NBA are basically a less buffoonish version of the refs at professional "WRASTLIN'" matches that are just there to pretend to turn their back when the right guy gets an advantage to get the crowd going.

I get your outrage. I don't think anyone on the board is defending incompetent refs. I sense that your frustration is more toward the league for not getting tougher on refs who officiate incorrectly. 

Not too long ago, the owners reviewed refereeing issues like calling the game more tightly in the fourth quarter, giving the benefit of the doubt in 50-50 calls to the home team, giving stars the benefit of the doubt, etc., and decided that they didn't want to make changes. So, this is an issue that goes beyond Silver and Stern. I don't think any of those people wanted incompetency -- I believe the stated goal is for 90% of the calls/no-calls to be accurate. As far as the conspiracy theories involving referees, some of those have seemed a little off the wall to me, but then you see something like the 2006 series, and you have to wonder. I would put the failure to call Howard's wrapping Seth up in the same category. 

The officials do have their own disciplinary system, although disciplinary actions are rarely made public. A few days ago, some officials were disciplined for not allowing a coach's challenge to Houston when they were eligible to take one. The discipline came under the category of failing to understand a rule, or applying it incorrectly, as opposed to a judgment call, such as whether a play constituted a goaltend, block or charge, etc. The refs were apparently confused about the rule, which was pretty appalling. 

I think Cuban has been instrumental in the effort to improve officiating, perhaps at the cost of it backfiring on him to an extent in earlier seasons. The refereeing crew has largely turned over since then, and we don't know whether some of those departures were forced or not. 

Unfortunately, I think this issue will be around, at least to some degree, more or less indefinitely. As fans, I guess all we can do is decide whether we are still willing to watch the game or not. The NBA actually looks pretty good compared to some other sports, such as world soccer, where out-and-out match fixing has been rampant. That doesn't mean we should stop calling them out, though.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think Cuban has been instrumental in the effort to improve officiating, perhaps at the cost of it backfiring on him to an extent in earlier seasons. The refereeing crew has largely turned over since then, and we don't know whether some of those departures were forced or not.

I was a little disappointed with this quote from you, mavsluvr. I think that this year provides excellent evidence that the refs are still punishing their favorite whipping boy, or Luka would have at least 20 FTAs per game.

[mavsluvr]

I think Cuban has been instrumental in the effort to improve officiating, perhaps at the cost of it backfiring on him to an extent in earlier seasons. The refereeing crew has largely turned over since then, and we don't know whether some of those departures were forced or not.

I was a little disappointed with this quote from you, mavsluvr. I think that this year provides excellent evidence that the refs are still punishing their favorite whipping boy, or Luka would have at least 20 FTAs per game.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think Cuban has been instrumental in the effort to improve officiating, perhaps at the cost of it backfiring on him to an extent in earlier seasons. The refereeing crew has largely turned over since then, and we don't know whether some of those departures were forced or not.

I was a little disappointed with this quote from you, mavsluvr. I think that this year provides excellent evidence that the refs are still punishing their favorite whipping boy, or Luka would have at least 20 FTAs per game.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

We all know how closely you watch the games by virtue of your recaps. With all due affection and respect, it boggles my mind that someone who both watches the games attentively and favors the Mavs could draw anything other than that conclusion, tbqh.

[mavsluvr]

We all know how closely you watch the games by virtue of your recaps. With all due affection and respect, it boggles my mind that someone who both watches the games attentively and favors the Mavs could draw anything other than that conclusion, tbqh

It might surprise you to know that fans of every NBA team (probably every sports team, tbh) are convinced that the officials have it in for their team. It's an aspect of being a fan. 


I don't like the errors, either. I get outraged by it, too. I don't necessarily jump to the conclusion that there is a massive conspiracy being carried out against our particular team. But I guess it's not impossible, so if part of your desired MFFL experience is believing that, go for it! I'm not saying you're for sure wrong or anything.

[Scott41theMavs]

We all know how closely you watch the games by virtue of your recaps. With all due affection and respect, it boggles my mind that someone who both watches the games attentively and favors the Mavs could draw anything other than that conclusion, tbqh

It might surprise you to know that fans of every NBA team (probably every sports team, tbh) are convinced that the officials have it in for their team. It's an aspect of being a fan.


I don't like the errors, either. I get outraged by it, too. I don't necessary jump to the conclusion that there is a massive conspiracy being carried out against our particular team. But I guess it's not impossible, so if part of your desired MFFL experience is believing that, go for it! I'm not saying you're for sure wrong or anything.

Part of my point in bringing it up in that post in the summer of '18 was how DSJ's development was being crushed by the refs. His greatest strength was his driving ability, but the refs swallowed their whistles against objective fouls more than for the average rookie.

We live in the age of the perimeter-playing driver being the most favored players on the court by virtue of rules that all but outlaw perimeter defense. Luka gets to the line with one of the highest frequencies in the league, but only a third to a half of the times he should. Given his off-the-charts marketability, I don't see how that could be due to anything other than Cuban.

[mavsluvr]

Part of my point in bringing it up in that post in the summer of '18 was how DSJ's development was being crushed by the refs. His greatest strength was his driving ability, but the refs swallowed their whistles against objective fouls more than for the average rookie.

Are there stats on that?

We live in the age of the perimeter-playing driver being the most favored players on the court by virtue of rules that all but outlaw perimeter defense. Luka gets to the line with one of the highest frequencies in the league, but only a third to a half of the times he should. Given his off-the-charts marketability, I don't see how that could be due to anything other than Cuban.

I hear what you're saying. I wonder if you have opened your mind to whether it is within the realm of possibility that other reasons could play a part. I can think of a few. 


One is the fact that the refs are encouraged not to call every foul, so that the game is not totally broken up by foul calls on just about every play. So they aren't going to call everything, and that's going to apply to some Mavericks. It also works in our favor occasionally. Remember Vince Carter's spectacular three-pointer to win a playoff game against the Spurs? He pretty clearly travelled on that shot, but Pop said that a team just isn't going to get that call at the end of the game. We don't have to like it, but it is enlightening to understand it. 

There are other possibilities. The officials could be, consciously or subconsciously, biased against Luka for trying to embarrass them and show them up. Or, they could tune him out as someone who just automatically complains. Or, maybe they are involved in some massive gambling thing and have money against the Mavs. Or, maybe their kid is lying in the hospital very sick, and they're distracted. Or, they're incompetent. Or, any number of other things. It doesn't have to be all one thing. 

Luka actually gets a pretty phenomenal amount of respect for a 20-year-old player. Nevertheless, I am as baffled and annoyed as you at missing what appear to glaringly obvious situations. It could be that the sole cause is that the refs are just carrying on a vendetta against Cuban, who knows? I've been wrong before. I understand why you would raise the possibility.

[ItsGoTime]

Part of my point in bringing it up in that post in the summer of '18 was how DSJ's development was being crushed by the refs. His greatest strength was his driving ability, but the refs swallowed their whistles against objective fouls more than for the average rookie.

Are there stats on that?

We live in the age of the perimeter-playing driver being the most favored players on the court by virtue of rules that all but outlaw perimeter defense. Luka gets to the line with one of the highest frequencies in the league, but only a third to a half of the times he should. Given his off-the-charts marketability, I don't see how that could be due to anything other than Cuban.

I hear what you're saying. I wonder if you have opened your mind to whether it is within the realm of possibility that other reasons could play a part. I can think of a few. 


One is the fact that the refs are encouraged not to call every foul, so that the game is not totally broken up by foul calls on just about every play. So they aren't going to call everything, and that's going to apply to some Mavericks. It also works in our favor occasionally. Remember Vince Carter's spectacular three-pointer to win a playoff game against the Spurs? He pretty clearly travelled on that shot, but Pop said that a team just isn't going to get that call at the end of the game. We don't have to like it, but it is enlightening to understand it. 

There are other possibilities. The officials could be, consciously or subconsciously, biased against Luka for trying to embarrass them and show them up. Or, they could tune him out as someone who just automatically complains. Or, maybe they are involved in some massive gambling thing and have money against the Mavs. Or, maybe their kid is lying in the hospital very sick, and they're distracted. Or, they're incompetent. Or, any number of other things. It doesn't have to be all one thing. 

Luka actually gets a pretty phenomenal amount of respect for a 20-year-old player. Nevertheless, I am as baffled and annoyed as you at missing what appear to glaringly obvious situations. It could be that the sole cause is that the refs are just carrying on a vendetta against Cuban, who knows? I've been wrong before. I understand why you would raise the possibility.

The possibilities are endless as to what the issue(s) is/are, that’s why I hardly ever make definitive statements on things unseen (except God).

[mavsluvr]

Another bullet on the refs and Luka that drives me crazy: Some local reporters suggested that Luka will get more calls by shutting up. If that doesn't pinpoint the issue with these bullshit refs, I don't know. That's basically admitting that they're not objective. If somebody talks too much, your move is to T them up and not bitch back at them by not calling fouls. Do your fucking job and don't act like a fucking diva. Luka's comments after the game were A+ btw. Just a mature leader at 20.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't know that I totally agree with this. Psychological research is overwhelming that we each interpret any given situation from the point of view of our own prior experience and our emotions, even if we believe we are being completely objective. 


I could easily see a situation where the refs are trying to be, and believe they are being, completely objective. But if they are angry and embarrassed, or if they perceive from their own experience that a guy is a dirty player, or is the boy who cries wolf, it could subconsciously affect their officiating. I am not suggesting they are intending to "get" a player by not calling fouls. Something more subtle than that. 

I think Luka, in his calmer moments, is aware of that. He goes and shakes each of the refs' hands before and after the game. I think he wants them to view him positively. He has himself admitted that he sometimes lets his emotions get away from him to an unproductive extent. I am not saying he should never comment on the officiating. I'm just saying that it is possible that he is overdoing it in certain situations. Both he and Carlisle are in agreement on that. 

So, I guess I think it might be that he and the team would benefit from his playing a little more under control. I appreciate his passion, but being able to maintain your composure is a skill and an advantage.

[mavsluvr]

Sac defeats Thunder on Wednesday night. Maybe we just caught these guys on a hot streak.