How Can the Mavs NOT Be Better with These Additions?

[WildArkieBoy]

Derrick J.
Omax
Seth C.
Dante E.
Grant W.
Dereck L.
Richaun H.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

The third string is gonna be elite.

[omahen]

Derrick J.
Omax
Seth C.
Dante E.
Grant W.
Dereck L.
Richaun H.

I doubt anyone thinks Mavs will be worse. They had 38 wins last season. The question really is, how much more wins can an upgrade of a third string unit with only a couple of changes in top 10 rotation bring.

[SkenfromLMF]

I doubt anyone thinks Mavs will be worse. They had 38 wins last season. The question really is, how much more wins can an upgrade of a third string unit with only a couple of changes in top 10 rotation bring.

IF there is a silver lining to that question it is that the starting lineup boasts 2 All-Star starters who have yet to show chemistry in a game setting. So theoretically a 50% improvement (say 55 wins) could be feasible.
That is a huge jump, but if they hit anything other than rock bottom last year there is a chance.

[ballsrchr]

I think the team is better--overall. But there is still that thing called "chemistry"--the intermeshing and utilization of the players on the team--all while bringing on the rookies (and a few trades) so the team will be better and better every year. The Mavs don't have a good record in this respect...but I am encouraged with this year's draft and trades.

Since it has been walloped like a thrice dead horse I'll leave it to other's imagination to who is responsible for mixing the concoction called "chemistry."

[mvossman]

I doubt anyone thinks Mavs will be worse. They had 38 wins last season. The question really is, how much more wins can an upgrade of a third string unit with only a couple of changes in top 10 rotation bring.

I mean the most obvious chance at improvement is a healthy Luka/Kyrie with an offseason to learn how to play together.

Grant Williams is not a third stringer.  He is obviously a huge upgrade considering we had virtually no PF for most of the season given the Dorian and Maxi injuries and then the trade.

A lot of guys on that list could be in the top 10 rotation by the end of the year.  I think adding depth and youth to a team that was old and paper thin is more value than its getting credit for.

[WildArkieBoy]

I mean the most obvious chance at improvement is a healthy Luka/Kyrie with an offseason to learn how to play together.

Grant Williams is not a third stringer.  He is obviously a huge upgrade considering we had virtually no PF for most of the season given the Dorian and Maxi injuries and then the trade.

A lot of guys on that list could be in the top 10 rotation by the end of the year.  I think adding depth and youth to a team that was old and paper thin is more value than its getting credit for.

Wasn't the idea verbalized last year that adding at least one playmaker and a serviceable center to luka/kyrie would thrust the Mavs into the top 4 in the division?  I thought "we" were on the verge of the playoffs last year until the announced two game tanking at the end.

[omahen]

IF there is a silver lining to that question it is that the starting lineup boasts 2 All-Star starters who have yet to show chemistry in a game setting. So theoretically a 50% improvement (say 55 wins) could be feasible.
That is a huge jump, but if they hit anything other than rock bottom last year there is a chance.

Kyrie and Luka posted a 9-16 record since Kyrie started playing for the Mavs, which is around 30 wins season. So a 50 % improvement is roughly 45 wins  . 50 % improvement is big.

While Mavs had 38 wins last season, their record with Kyrie (not saying it is Kyrie fault) was really bad and the starting point is actually really low.

---

Wasn't the idea verbalized last year that adding at least one playmaker and a serviceable center to luka/kyrie would thrust the Mavs into the top 4 in the division?  I thought "we" were on the verge of the playoffs last year until the announced two game tanking at the end.

Mavs ended 6 wins behind 6th best record in the West, so those last two games didn't matter anything with regards to the playoffs. There was a slight chance it could get them to play-in (but other results showed it wouldn't happen even if Mavs won both games).

Edit: and btw, I am not convinced Mavs added a serviceable center and at least one (decent) playmaker. Might be wrong, but I rather take a more careful approach with the regards to what I hope for.

[WildArkieBoy]

I think the team is better--overall.  But there is still that thing called "chemistry"--the intermeshing and utilization of the players on the team--all while bringing on the rookies (and a few trades) so the team will be better and better every year.  The Mavs don't have a good record in this respect...but I am encouraged with this year's draft and trades.

Since it has been walloped like a thrice dead horse I'll leave it to other's imagination to who is responsible for mixing the concoction called "chemistry."

a four letter name starting with k?

[DallasMaverick]

a four letter name starting with k?

Hmm...

If managment really believed that, then they would have fired Kidd and kept the rest of the team intact.

Apparently, they don't think he's the problem.

[Chicagojk]

I think they will be better than last year. I also think they have made the correct decisions on how to build the team moving forward. They are not there yet and it will take a few more smart, good moves. I don’t see them as the WCF team run team nor the tire fire of last year. Maybe they are positioned in the middle, where they probably should have been all along. I think the Mavs will try to be aggressive. I think if a trade could have been had for a 3rd/4th best player, the Mavs would have pounced. I just don’t think the trade was available for what they were willing to give up. But I expect them to stay aggressive. We can debate whether it is better to be patient, but I expect them to be very aggressive.

Just last year, most in the media was saying that a healthy Luka gets you close to 50 wins. funny how that is never ever mentioned any longer. For some good reason, but still.

Lastly, while I think the Mavs will be better this year and more importantly they are positioned better moving forward (minus any Kyrie rock the boat moments), the west is really good. I like most of the rosters in the west. A lot will be determined by injuries and teams being able to execute in winning times late in games. Two years ago the Mavs did most of the really small things well. Last year, they did most of the small things wrong. If they can just get closer to two years ago, I think that is 5-6 wins right there.

[Reunion Mav]

Kyrie and Luka posted a 9-16 record since Kyrie started playing for the Mavs, which is around 30 wins season. So a 50 % improvement is roughly 45 wins  . 50 % improvement is big.

While Mavs had 38 wins last season, their record with Kyrie (not saying it is Kyrie fault) was really bad and the starting point is actually really low.

---

Mavs ended 6 wins behind 6th best record in the West, so those last two games didn't matter anything with regards to the playoffs. There was a slight chance it could get them to play-in (but other results showed it wouldn't happen even if Mavs won both games).

Edit: and btw, I am not convinced Mavs added a serviceable center and at least one (decent) playmaker. Might be wrong, but I rather take a more careful approach with the regards to what I hope for.

Go ahead. I dare you. Be a hopeful fan. We can all recover just fine if the season is disappointing. There will be a lot to hopefully watch this season. Enjoy it.

[Scott41theMavs]

The third string is gonna be elite.

This was extreme shock value, and everyone on the (brief) thread ran with it. 

We have eight returning players from last year - Luka, Kai, THJ, Green, Hardy, Maxi, Powell, and Morris. Many of our additions are frontcourt players. Morris will be 15th in total minutes. THJ may not be here the whole year. Powell's minutes will hopefully be reduced considerably. Maxi's availability has been variable.

Right now, the starters look like:
Kyrie Green Luka Grant Lively (hopefully)

First players off the bench:
Hardy THJ OMax (whom I bet will be no lower than fifth in minutes on the team, no lie) Maxi when available

Since we didn't get a solid backup point, we have to hope for Exum to fill that role, so he's second team by default. Seth isn't a point, and Hardy isn't in a million years a point.

So the "third team" isn't really a third team, considering that it's Seth, DJJ, Powell, Holmes, and Morris. Four frontcourt guys. Of course, several of those will move well forward in the rotation if GoP is correct in his opinion that Lively is trash and if Maxi gets injured. But I would argue that the *rotation* is clearly better.

[mvossman]

This was extreme shock value, and everyone on the (brief) thread ran with it. 

We have eight returning players from last year - Luka, Kai, THJ, Green, Hardy, Maxi, Powell, and Morris. Many of our additions are frontcourt players. Morris will be 15th in total minutes. THJ may not be here the whole year. Powell's minutes will hopefully be reduced considerably. Maxi's availability has been variable.

Right now, the starters look like:
Kyrie Green Luka Grant Lively (hopefully)

First players off the bench:
Hardy THJ OMax (whom I bet will be no lower than fifth in minutes on the team, no lie) Maxi when available

Since we didn't get a solid backup point, we have to hope for Exum to fill that role, so he's second team by default. Seth isn't a point, and Hardy isn't in a million years a point.

So the "third team" isn't really a third team, considering that it's Seth, DJJ, Powell, Holmes, and Morris. Four frontcourt guys. Of course, several of those will move well forward in the rotation if GoP is correct in his opinion that Lively is trash and if Maxi gets injured. But I would argue that the *rotation* is clearly better.

Most likely they are going to stagger Luka and Kyrie, so no need to pencil Exum in the second unit unless he plays well enough to do so.

[michaeltex]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the team will be better. I'm steeling myself for some ugly basketball in the first 20 games or so as everyone finds their rhythm and gets comfortable with each other. Hopeful that around 1/1/24 we will start to see consistency and the wins will start piling up, but there are a lot of unknowns between here and there.

Some questions I have for the deeper thinkers here are:

Is there a sense that the Luka/Kyrie pairing starts to work? It feels to me like there are two stars who are best with the ball in hand.

Will we see Kyrie assume the PG role and have Luka play more of a post up position (ala Jokic)?

If Kyrie assumes a more dominant role, does that play into Luka wanting to go find another team to lead?

I like the feel of the rookies, but there has to be a way to avoid throwing them into the deep end while not assigning them to the kiddie pool. Does the staff, not just Kidd, have the skills/experience to manage their growth during a competitive season?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to this board coming alive as things get going around the AAC.

[KillerLeft]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the team will be better. I'm steeling myself for some ugly basketball in the first 20 games or so as everyone finds their rhythm and gets comfortable with each other. Hopeful that around 1/1/24 we will start to see consistency and the wins will start piling up, but there are a lot of unknowns between here and there.

Some questions I have for the deeper thinkers here are:

Is there a sense that the Luka/Kyrie pairing starts to work? It feels to me like there are two stars who are best with the ball in hand.

Will we see Kyrie assume the PG role and have Luka play more of a post up position (ala Jokic)?

If Kyrie assumes a more dominant role, does that play into Luka wanting to go find another team to lead?

I like the feel of the rookies, but there has to be a way to avoid throwing them into the deep end while not assigning them to the kiddie pool. Does the staff, not just Kidd, have the skills/experience to manage their growth during a competitive season?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to this board coming alive as things get going around the AAC.

I might be crazy, but the Luka/Kyrie on court fit is pretty low on the list of my worries.

[Halfnir]

Kyrie and Luka posted a 9-16 record since Kyrie started playing for the Mavs, which is around 30 wins season. So a 50 % improvement is roughly 45 wins  . 50 % improvement is big.

While Mavs had 38 wins last season, their record with Kyrie (not saying it is Kyrie fault) was really bad and the starting point is actually really low.

I'm super optimistic that this record was not the result of a dysfunctional Luka/Kyrie pairing, but rather caused by the main support cast of Bullock/Hardaway/Green/Powell as co-starters (with a sprinkle of Holiday/Nikitilia). That's a non-shooting PF playing C and 3 (+2) big guards covering the wing. That mess of a roster remaining after the Kyrie trade (combined with Maxi being hurt) was unsalvable within the season. 

With the addition of so many capable defenders, it's a completely new game this season.

[Jym]

A couple months into last season we were the 4th seed after blowing so many close, winnable games. Realistically would have been the #1 seed at that point with better conditioning from Luka and better coaching from Kidd. Not that it was sustainable putting that much pressure on Luka but the foundation is there for a lot of wins this year if we get enough healthy games from Luka and Kyrie

[KillerLeft]

A couple months into last season we were the 4th seed after blowing so many close, winnable games. Realistically would have been the #1 seed at that point with better conditioning from Luka and better coaching from Kidd. Not that it was sustainable putting that much pressure on Luka but the foundation is there for a lot of wins this year if we get enough healthy games from Luka and Kyrie

One of the major, not talked about issues from last season is that Luka (and the offense as a whole) wasn’t as good in clutch, end of game stretches as he/they were the couple of seasons prior. If that turns around, they’ll be a good team, imo.

[DanSchwartzgan]

A couple months into last season we were the 4th seed after blowing so many close, winnable games.  

To be precise they were in 4th eleven of the first 12 days of January and on 1/12/23 were on a 46 win pace having played just over half the season.  Phoenix got the 4th seed last season at 45-37.  They went 14-25 from 1/13/23 on which was 5th worst in the league.  I imagine one's outlook on the season depends on which team we think this team looks more like.

I pick the first half team.  I think Kyrie is better than Dinwiddie, GWill is better than last years version of DFS (note the wording), Josh is better than last years version of Bullock and our center rotation and bench are improved as well.

To Killer's point, Dallas was 26-29 in clutch games and blew 10 point leads 15 times (only Portland and Minnesota were worse).  The year before they were 22-16.