FIBA Qualifying Tournament: USA loses to Germany|Gold medal between Germany+Serbia

[SwisherPrice]

Australia's offense is stale, even Andrew Bogut said there are too many isolations. It's mainly based on Giddey and Mills so not a lot of opportunities for Green to do anything but stand in the corner as a floor spacer when he's in the lineup with those guys. Similar to what we see on the Mavs offense. Hard to put up many shots when you barely get the ball so all you can do is 3 and D.

Slovenia vs. Germany will be fun though. Canada, Spain, and Serbia lost today too so the underdog countries came to play

[Jym]

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Josh picked up Luka full court every time that ball was inbounded to him, if you don't think running an isolated full court press every time down the floor is draining then I think we just disagree there.  I also wasn't saying that Luka wasn't impactful, I'm saying Australia's strategy was to limit him as a scorer and take the ball out of his hands and Josh was a big part of that is all.  Luka always makes the right play and tonight his team stepped up and made Australia pay.

I wasn't saying that he was playing game changing defense necessarily, I'm saying the game plan for Josh was to play POA defense on Luka full court until he crossed half court and the double came to force it out of his hands and make the rest of the team beat them and Slovenia executed great and won.  His job was play hard defense then go stand in the corner, which will basically be his job next season too when he's playing with Luka and Kyrie.

Whether or not Australia limited him or not, he's limited offensively, always is.  Amazing efficiency, but offensively he's hesitant and will be hesitant.  I'm just questioning if we want to make a huge investment in him.  The Thybulle offer sheet tells you the FO does also.

[omahen]

Australia's offense is stale, even Andrew Bogut said there are too many isolations. It's mainly based on Giddey and Mills so not a lot of opportunities for Green to do anything but stand in the corner as a floor spacer when he's in the lineup with those guys. Similar to what we see on the Mavs offense. Hard to put up many shots when you barely get the ball so all you can do is 3 and D.

Slovenia vs. Germany will be fun though. Canada, Spain, and Serbia lost today too so the underdog countries came to play

Exum took 13 shots, Green took 5. Sometimes you have to be a little more "selfish". If you want to be more than a role player. That is what I am trying to say.

[Mavs2021]

Australia's offense is stale, even Andrew Bogut said there are too many isolations. It's mainly based on Giddey and Mills so not a lot of opportunities for Green to do anything but stand in the corner as a floor spacer when he's in the lineup with those guys. Similar to what we see on the Mavs offense. Hard to put up many shots when you barely get the ball so all you can do is 3 and D.

Slovenia vs. Germany will be fun though. Canada, Spain, and Serbia lost today too so the underdog countries came to play

That´s real surprising and makes the game between Germany/Slovenia a lot bigger than it appeared 24 hours ago. I´m sure either team wants to play the winner of Brazil/Latvia, and they will know the winner of the game, when they tip-off, but they have no clue whether that winner will finish first or second, cause that depends on the later  Canada/Spain game.

[KillerLeft]

Exum took 13 shots, Green took 5. Sometimes you have to be a little more "selfish". If you want to be more than a role player. That is what I am trying to say.

What makes the bar for Green higher than a role player? I feel like I must've missed some discussion on this, or something. Obviously, Green is always going to be a role player, but he seems likely to be a very good one to me. You don't agree?

[omahen]

What makes the bar for Green higher than a role player? I feel like I must've missed some discussion on this, or something. Obviously, Green is always going to be a role player, but he seems likely to be a very good one to me. You don't agree?

Some seem to expect for him to be the third best player on this team. I think for him to be that, he would need to show more on offense. If the expectation is just a role player, than fine. But if he is just a role player, I don't understand why he seems to be so untouchable by most here. Role players are not that difficult to replace.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Some seem to expect for him to be the third best player on this team. I think for him to be that, he would need to show more on offense. If the expectation is just a role player, than fine. But if he is just a role player, I don't understand why he seems to be so untouchable by most here. Role players are not that difficult to replace.

I don't think Green will be the third best player on this team, but I'm curious, do you feel the third best player should also be the third best offensive player?

I would also say that us celebrating this offseason where we had replaced all our role players effectively kind of speaks to how difficult it had been for us in recent seasons to do just that, all NBA roster moves are difficult no matter how we want to spin it on this board.  Green was the one role player we had that did all the things that we as a team were absolutely terrible at (do more than spot up shoot, make plays in transition and get offensive boards) which is why he hasn't really been involved in too many trade talks now.

[Jym]

I mean it wouldn't exactly be that tough for Green to be the 3rd best player. That role/hole in the roster is wide open
12 ppg and consistent, persistent defense might be enough to put him there

Really is an interesting roster though. Has there ever been such a small gap between the 3rd best player and the 14th best player?
We legitimately might have the best 13th and 14th men ever. They all have a claim and a shot at being a main rotation guy

[surfpuckmd]

I mean it wouldn't exactly be that tough for Green to be the 3rd best player. That role/hole in the roster is wide open
12 ppg and consistent, persistent defense might be enough to put him there

Really is an interesting roster though. Has there ever been such a small gap between the 3rd best player and the 14th best player?
We legitimately might have the best 13th and 14th men ever. They all have a claim and a shot at being a main rotation guy

I agree with every word in this post.

I predict Green will become the third best player on this roster this season because the competition for that spot is nothing special.  Last year I think it was probably THJ or possibly Dwight Powell.  At times, it seemed like Christian Wood.  I think a version of Josh Green where his defense improves a little and he shoots a few more open 3s would become our 3rd best player.  I think Jaden Hardy could average 15 ppg this season but Josh Green would still be more important to our team success.

I think what our roster needs is an elite role player.  Someone at the level of Derrick White, Aaron Gordon, Nic Claxton or Alex Caruso.   I consider them all excellent players.  They are role players though and not stars.  I hope we can trade for someone already at that level this season or next off-season.   In the meantime, Josh Green is our best hope for a good, starting-level role player on this roster.

[omahen]

I don't think Green will be the third best player on this team, but I'm curious, do you feel the third best player should also be the third best offensive player?

I would also say that us celebrating this offseason where we had replaced all our role players effectively kind of speaks to how difficult it had been for us in recent seasons to do just that, all NBA roster moves are difficult no matter how we want to spin it on this board.  Green was the one role player we had that did all the things that we as a team were absolutely terrible at (do more than spot up shoot, make plays in transition and get offensive boards) which is why he hasn't really been involved in too many trade talks now.

I think a third best player should be capable of putting up around 15 ppg and playing very good defense. Guys like Annunoby, Smart, Jerami Grant come to mind. There might be better offensive players on the team, but their defensive limitations would relegate them to 6th man role (I have Hardy as an example in mind). I am not sure GW can be that guy too, neither can anyone else currently on the team. That means Mavs still need to bring that guy in.

[omahen]

Really is an interesting roster though. Has there ever been such a small gap between the 3rd best player and the 14th best player?
We legitimately might have the best 13th and 14th men ever. They all have a claim and a shot at being a main rotation guy

That might be true, but you don't really play 14 guys. Mavs still have the exact same problem they had for years now. A bunch of 5th-8th best player types that they are trying to put in bigger roles. Still waiting to finally get that 3rd, 4th best guy types. So, if Green is closer to that 14th best guy on the team than to real 3rd best type, wouldn't it make more sense to trade him for that guy? Since it seems there are many other guys that could play that role player position?

[Jym]

That might be true, but you don't really play 14 guys. Mavs still have the exact same problem they had for years now. A bunch of 5th-8th best player types that they are trying to put in bigger roles. Still waiting to finally get that 3rd, 4th best guy types. So, if Green is closer to that 14th best guy on the team than to real 3rd best type, wouldn't it make more sense to trade him for that guy? Since it seems there are many other guys that could play that role player position?

Consolidating would certainly make some sense. I wouldn't be against that.
But who do you have in mind?
Most Green trades that I see floating around here seem to involve getting a center and I don't know about that. Getting a better wing that can also still defend PGs while scoring at a higher clip would be more my goal but I'm not sure who that would be

[Chicagojk]

Yes, huge year for Green. He has the skillset the mavs need. He is already a good rotation player (although unfortunately we haven’t gotten a chance to see how he reacts in a playoff setting—only one viewing when like most young players he was over his head.)

The issue is if he doesn’t take a leap to the next level, his future here is far from certain. Especially if OMAX is a player. Dallas will have draft assets and other things to get another piece. If Green doesn’t take the next step, Dallas very well may use those assets on a wing. That could make green the odd man out over the next few years.

I hope he makes that jump. As I have said for the last year if Green and Hardy are real, we are much closer to being a contender…and this was before all the other movers from this summer.

[DallasMaverick]

That might be true, but you don't really play 14 guys. Mavs still have the exact same problem they had for years now. A bunch of 5th-8th best player types that they are trying to put in bigger roles. Still waiting to finally get that 3rd, 4th best guy types. So, if Green is closer to that 14th best guy on the team than to real 3rd best type, wouldn't it make more sense to trade him for that guy? Since it seems there are many other guys that could play that role player position?

Boy, I hate slotting players that way. Can you even look at an NBA roster and say with certainty who is the 5th-best player? It’s just so dependent on matchups and roles, the way the rest of the roster fits together, etc. 

If your only criteria is scoring, then sure, you can say who’s the 3rd- or 5th-best player. But don’t you care more about how well players fill their roles?

It’s a little like saying that, if you replace a 5ppg scorer with a 15ppg scorer, the team should score 10 more points per game!

[surfpuckmd]

I think a third best player should be capable of putting up around 15 ppg and playing very good defense. Guys like Annunoby, Smart, Jerami Grant come to mind. There might be better offensive players on the team, but their defensive limitations would relegate them to 6th man role (I have Hardy as an example in mind). I am not sure GW can be that guy too, neither can anyone else currently on the team. That means Mavs still need to bring that guy in.

Anunoby would be great here.  Perfect fit.   I don't think we can afford him though either in terms of assets or his next contract.

I don't know that we should set a threshold of 15 ppg as what we require out of our 3rd-best player.  I understand your point though.  I think there's a pitfall that sometimes occurs with great defensive players.  Sometimes, when they begin to become more offensive-minded, they relax more on defense.  I see Jerami Grant, Myles Turner and Mikal Bridges as all being once-elite defensive players whose defense worsened once they became the number one or two offensive options on their teams.   I would prefer Josh Green expend as much energy as possible on defense and just be a good role player on offense.  3 and D when Kyrie and Luka are on the floor.  Handle the ball a little when Kyrie or Luka are resting.  If Kyrie or Luka miss a game, then his role on offense will increase.

I would be fine with trading Josh Green for a better third player but that player needs to be a great defender-  Anunoby, Derrick White or Nic Claxton come to mind.  I don't think I would want Jerami Grant the player or his contract.

[omahen]

Consolidating would certainly make some sense. I wouldn't be against that.
But who do you have in mind?
Most Green trades that I see floating around here seem to involve getting a center and I don't know about that. Getting a better wing that can also still defend PGs while scoring at a higher clip would be more my goal but I'm not sure who that would be

I don't think there will ever be a consensus here about those guys. As good as they are, they are all flawed in some areas (otherwise they would be stars), they usually cost a lot and they are usually paid very well. I think Mavs do need a decent center, at least much better one than they have now. I agree also that Mavs need another good two-way wing, unless the bet is for Green to become that. I am perfectly fine with that bet, just saying that Green will need to show (much) more than he is showing now. 

Difficult to speak about names. I think any of Capella, Allen, Claxton, Turner or Zubac would be a good option at center. Guys like White, Caruso, Smart or Dort would be great point of attack defenders and with the exception of Dort they were all traded recently for not that much. White came from a tanking team for a late FRP. Not many of us thought Smart would even be available. Who knows what OKC plans for Dort are. My point is, the 2027 pick should be a good enough asset to get one of these kind of guys and get "some change" back. 

Good front offices usually make it happen.

[omahen]

Anunoby would be great here.  Perfect fit.   I don't think we can afford him though either in terms of assets or his next contract.

He is a perfect example of a player who basically controls where he will be. He is expiring and I think Toronto already missed their opportunity to cash in big on him. No one will pay a fortune for a season (or even less, if traded at TDL) rental. Even if they are sure, he is prepared to resign with them, it is still a risk to take. Player relationship is everything now. So, convince the guy he wants to be part of the story and there will not be very strong competition out there. 

I still woulnd't mind Grant. Him being overpaid means he would likely cost less in assets. And he is not that much overpaid, imho. I don't think Mavs have a problem paying a 30 mil per year guy on their team (also probable range of next OG contract). This is basically THJ and Holmes salary. If Green is signed for a modest salary, I don't think they would have a problem staying under first apron.

[surfpuckmd]

He is a perfect example of a player who basically controls where he will be. He is expiring and I think Toronto already missed their opportunity to cash in big on him. No one will pay a fortune for a season (or even less, if traded at TDL) rental. Even if they are sure, he is prepared to resign with them, it is still a risk to take. Player relationship is everything now. So, convince the guy he wants to be part of the story and there will not be very strong competition out there. 

I still woulnd't mind Grant. Him being overpaid means he would likely cost less in assets. And he is not that much overpaid, imho. I don't think Mavs have a problem paying a 30 mil per year guy on their team (also probable range of next OG contract). This is basically THJ and Holmes salary. If Green is signed for a modest salary, I don't think they would have a problem staying under first apron.

If we could really acquire Anunoby, that would be amazing.  I think I would offer Jaden Hardy, our 2027 unprotected first and a contract (Richaun Holmes) for Anunoby.  I think that would make us a contender.

I wouldn't want Grant even for just contracts, i.e. Holmes and THJ.

[Scott41theMavs]

Boy, I hate slotting players that way. Can you even look at an NBA roster and say with certainty who is the 5th-best player? It’s just so dependent on matchups and roles, the way the rest of the roster fits together, etc. 

If your only criteria is scoring, then sure, you can say who’s the 3rd- or 5th-best player. But don’t you care more about how well players fill their roles?

It’s a little like saying that, if you replace a 5ppg scorer with a 15ppg scorer, the team should score 10 more points per game!

On a certain level, I get you. But in the end, it's about 1) are the guys we have good enough to win a championship? and 2) is the amount of minutes and trust that each player receives merited within the team? 

The Mavs have done a simply atrocious job of putting a "good-enough" team around their generational superstar the past five years. Kyrie is a godsend in that he elevates the talent level around Luka all by himself. But if none of (or, more generously, unless at least three of) the other 13 guys are truly good enough to start for a playoff team, the Mavs still won't win this year. To me, perhaps GW, perhaps OMax, maybe Green, and maybe (if he really wows us) Exum, and maybe (if he grows by leaps and bounds in a single season) Lively could fulfill some of those roles. Maybe even Holmes, as skeptical as some of us are. But all of those cases are big question marks. We have seen enough over the years to know that THJ and Powell are absolutely not those guys (THJ bench on a championship contending team, and Powell glued to the bench on a contending team), and Maxi once was but is now on the decline from being such. Hardy at his ceiling is by nature a sixth man. I disagree with Omahen's overly vehement Green skepticism - trading him under any circumstances this year unless an even better defensive two-way wing is coming back in the deal or acquired prior to the playoffs is the deliberate choice to tank the season, since we have no other starter-minutes-worthy on-ball defenders until OMax is ready - but he makes an indubitably true point about the talent level around Luka and Kyrie.