Are you satisfied with the offseason (so far)

[KillerLeft]

I guess I’m also much higher than most on Grant Williams. I think he might be the best player who changed teams in free agency this year, other than VanVleet, who the Mavs obviously had no use for.

He’s CUSTOM made for the role he’ll play here, and as we’ve seen, it’s not a super easy role to fill.

[cow]

The most detailed reporting on an alternate draft night plan was a trade with Atlanta that, apparently, the Mavs considered:

Trade #10, Josh Green and (I assume) THJ for #15 and Capela.

Are there REALLY people here who would’ve preferred that path? That’s what was out there.

If, big if, the draft unfold the same way, you'd have to like one of the following:

15. Hawks draft Kobe Bufkin (Michigan)
16. Jazz draft Keyonte George (Baylor)
17. Lakers draft Jalen Hood-Schifino (Indiana)
18. Heat draft Jaime Jaquez Jr. (UCLA)
19. Warriors draft Brandin Podziemski (Santa Clara)
20. Rockets draft Cam Whitmore (Villanova)
21. Nets draft Noah Clowney (Alabama)
22. Nets draft Dariq Whitehead (Duke)
23. Blazers draft Kris Murray (Iowa)

Assuming we still got O'Max at 24, I'd probably be fine with that trade.  I'm not the biggest Capela fan but he's miles ahead of any other big we have.  I don't really like Josh though.  Let's do a hypothetical of what would you rather have?:  Capela, Whitmore, O'Max, Holmes vs Josh, Lively, O'Max, Holmes.

[Smitty]

If, big if, the draft unfold the same way, you'd have to like one of the following:

15. Hawks draft Kobe Bufkin (Michigan)
16. Jazz draft Keyonte George (Baylor)
17. Lakers draft Jalen Hood-Schifino (Indiana)
18. Heat draft Jaime Jaquez Jr. (UCLA)
19. Warriors draft Brandin Podziemski (Santa Clara)
20. Rockets draft Cam Whitmore (Villanova)
21. Nets draft Noah Clowney (Alabama)
22. Nets draft Dariq Whitehead (Duke)
23. Blazers draft Kris Murray (Iowa)

Assuming we still got O'Max at 24, I'd probably be fine with that trade.  I'm not the biggest Capela fan but he's miles ahead of any other big we have.  I don't really like Josh though.  Let's do a hypothetical of what would you rather have?:  Capela, Whitmore, O'Max, Holmes vs Josh, Lively, O'Max, Holmes.

I don’t think you get omax or Holmes in your first scenario because you don’t have the TPE from dumping Bertans to OKC.

It would be Capela, Whitmore, Bertans, MINUS Josh … OR … Lively, Omax, Holmes, KEEP Josh and still have Bertans out of here.

[cow]

I don’t think you get omax or Holmes in your first scenario because you don’t have the TPE from dumping Bertans to OKC.

It would be Capela, Whitmore, Bertans, MINUS Josh … OR … Lively, Omax, Holmes, KEEP Josh and still have Bertans.

Good point on the TPE.

[Hypermav]

Nice to see positive overall polling from the group. We can see that the MBT have a plan and have been mostly on target. I wanted a better starter at center but that spot is tricky with Lively. How much more do you allocate of your limited assets for that position. How fast will Lively get up to speed? He and Holmes could be the answer. idk. May have to play them in the fall and then move if needed at the TDL.

[Smitty]

Nice to see positive overall polling from the group. We can see that the MBT have a plan and have been mostly on target.  I wanted a better starter at center but that spot is tricky with Lively.  How much more do you allocate of your limited assets for that position.  How fast will Lively get up to speed?  He and Holmes could be the answer.  idk.  May have to play them in the fall and then move if needed at the TDL.

This is my take on the center position also. Unless it’s a no brainer trade as a 3rd team for one of the stars where the Mavs take Capela for just THJ and McGee with no FRP attached. Then you see what Holmes has left and see how quickly Lively can get on the floor and be a positive. If those two don’t look promising, and Nico thinks a top center would push them over the top at the TDL, then you pull the trigger.

[SkenfromLMF]

I wonder what we could have done prior to the draft with the rights to 12 and Atlanta at 15.
Could Dallas have gotten ATL to agree with McGee and 12 for Capela using the trade spread from Bertans to take Capela and the difference used to get Holmes and 24 via McGee?

Could Dallas have dumped McGee AND gotten another asset from ATL in this scenario with Whitmore as the fallback plan

[Scott41theMavs]

The one thing I didn't see from KL in his defense of Lively is his switchability. Guards don't generally even try it against him. Isn't that the sort of thing Bam is prized for? *That's* why he's no dinosaur. I'm sure it would come as a big surprise to a great many NBA fans that Bam would have been a reach in this draft because he's a low-value defensive center.

Given JG and DL's passing skills, not to mention Luka, Kai, Curry, et al., this could be a great shot-creating team this year - if only Luka learns to knock off the Beard-Helio horsecrap.

[Dundalis]

People seem to be under the misconception that we turned one pick into two. That’s not what happened.

We took on two years of a bad contract for a guy that was third string in order to buy a pick in the 20s. I think we all like Omax so far but that wasn’t trading 10 for 12 and 24.

---

No one said anything about a third star. You don’t have to make things up to win the argument. Your only rationale for thinking you are correct is that you personally like Lively. I personally do not love him and ALSO MORE IMPORTANTLY don’t think he’s on the same timeline as your two best players. Read that several times if you need it to marinate.

You do not have any kind of logical high ground like you are pretending you do.

I expected to go into next season pretty confident we’ll make the playoffs with one of the 3 best players in the world. Right now, I’m not.

You completely left out a big part of the draft moves. Taking on two years of a bad contract to buy a pick in the 20's is only half the story. We took pick 10 and Bertans, and turned it into 12, 24 and a contract LESS worse than Bertans who will also likely be more useable.

Also whether you like it or not there's a pretty good chance the Mavs took Lively at 10 anyway, so the move down to 12 might have been functionally irrelevant for the Mavs getting what they wanted, yet the only way to swap a bad contract for a less worse one and get an extra first round pick.

I think Lively is more likely to be a role player than a star, but I also think he has a defensive skillset at the 5 that is actually relatively rare. All defensive bigs are NOT made equally. Bigs that can defend the paint at a high level and also do a good job switching out are actually pretty rare, and if you can do that while developing a decent rim run game offensively you will be a good role player even on a title winning team. Literally all the tools are there for him to develop into one of those bigs. The big gamble is on his offense and whether he can ever develop a shot to space the floor. Then he isn't a matchup dependent big in the playoffs like most dinosaur bigs are he's an all situation big. There's a lot of risk there, but it's not like there's any clear slam dunks at 10. If Walker or Hendricks are there you take them and run, but they weren't.

[KillerLeft]

If, big if, the draft unfold the same way, you'd have to like one of the following:

15. Hawks draft Kobe Bufkin (Michigan)
16. Jazz draft Keyonte George (Baylor)
17. Lakers draft Jalen Hood-Schifino (Indiana)
18. Heat draft Jaime Jaquez Jr. (UCLA)
19. Warriors draft Brandin Podziemski (Santa Clara)
20. Rockets draft Cam Whitmore (Villanova)
21. Nets draft Noah Clowney (Alabama)
22. Nets draft Dariq Whitehead (Duke)
23. Blazers draft Kris Murray (Iowa)

Assuming we still got O'Max at 24, I'd probably be fine with that trade.  I'm not the biggest Capela fan but he's miles ahead of any other big we have.  I don't really like Josh though.  Let's do a hypothetical of what would you rather have?:  Capela, Whitmore, O'Max, Holmes vs Josh, Lively, O'Max, Holmes.

Yeah, someone beat me to it, but:

In the scenario of that trade, you have one of the names you listed, Capela and (maybe) the guys they signed in FA. 

No Green, no Omax, no Holmes and no THJ. I know you’re still fairly down on Green, and it’s possible that we’ll look back at potentially getting Capela for him as a missed opportunity, but most of us aren’t ready to sell him at that level. Time will tell, but what can’t be denied is that the Mavs’ path turned #10 into THREE assets. I think that’s the best way out of this asset-poor situation the Mavs have saddled themselves with.

Even with Holmes, there’s a chance of selling higher next year with his expiring deal. It’s a very useful size, and he might even rehab some value on the court.

[Dundalis]

I guess I’m also much higher than most on Grant Williams. I think he might be the best player who changed teams in free agency this year, other than VanVleet, who the Mavs obviously had no use for.

He’s CUSTOM made for the role he’ll play here, and as we’ve seen, it’s not a super easy role to fill.

I started off thinking this way, but the more I look into it, the more worried I am he will end up becoming a matchup problem for us. I don't care how good you guard up, when you are consistently giving up significant amount of size at your position, you are likely to end up getting punished for it, especially when you are now playing a starting role consistently against other starting lineups. There's a reason he wasn't a starter in Boston and got dropped from their rotation in the playoffs.

I still like the pickup, but I can see a lot of matchup problems with him playing heavy minutes at the 4 spot, especially when he's gonna often be on an island playing alongside a much lower caliber of defender than he used to to with the Celtics where he would have gotten a lot more assistance with defensive duties than he will get here.

[KillerLeft]

I started off thinking this way, but the more I look into it, the more worried I am he will end up becoming a matchup problem for us. I don't care how good you guard up, when you are consistently giving up significant amount of size at your position, you are likely to end up getting punished for it, especially when you are now playing a starting role consistently against other starting lineups. There's a reason he wasn't a starter in Boston and got dropped from their rotation in the playoffs.

I still like the pickup, but I can see a lot of matchup problems with him playing heavy minutes at the 4 spot, especially when he's gonna often be on an island playing alongside a much lower caliber of defender than he used to to with the Celtics where he would have gotten a lot more assistance with defensive duties than he will get here.

Sure, there’s a risk of drop off with increased minutes and responsibility. 

But, he can also handle the ball a little (much better than Kleber or DFS, so that will be a big plus over years past). More than enough to attack closeouts and handle the short roll when playing with Kleber. 

Also, he’s specifically a good CORNER shooter, coming to a team that can roll out of bed and create 5 wide open corner 3’s in 7 possessions. 

Good point about the quality of the other defenders…but you’ve got to start somewhere, and I think Green and OMax (who I think is cemented into the rotation by about game 20) might make for a more cohesive team defense than we expect. This is wishful thinking, I know, but hey - I’m a Mavs fan.

[Mavs2021]

The one thing I didn't see from KL in his defense of Lively is his switchability. Guards don't generally even try it against him. Isn't that the sort of thing Bam is prized for? *That's* why he's no dinosaur. I'm sure it would come as a big surprise to a great many NBA fans that Bam would have been a reach in this draft because he's a low-value defensive center.

Given JG and DL's passing skills, not to mention Luka, Kai, Curry, et al., this could be a great shot-creating team this year - if only Luka learns to knock off the Beard-Helio horsecrap.

That should have been the first thing. Shutting down pathways to the rim against smaller and bigger players before it happen, was by far the standout aspects of his defensive efforts. He has great footwork.

Overall he was not very good at rebounding. Had a few contested rebounds, but 90% of his defensive rebounds fell to him uncontested at hip level and offensively it were mostly uncontested putbacks. He does not seem to have quick reaction times, reading skills or anticipation. He´s getting pushed around and jumped many times. 

If he´s going to be a good rebounder it will be of the Brook Lopez kind. Somebody else has to clean the glass. Individual numbers won´t reflect it, but team numbers might. Question is whether that is enough on a historically bad rebounding team like the current Mavs. I guess Luka will love him. 

Don´t think he was great at shot-blocking either, once players actually got near the rim. He reacts too late and has poor timing.

The worry would be how much can you improve things that mostly rely of instincts and feel. For example word is that Zach Lavine is one of the hardest working players, but he´s still a negative defender after years in the league. Whatever it is. Sometimes it´s not a matter of desperately wanting it, but simply not being able to execute it physically/mentally.

All in all, I´d say he is still a fine pick for #10/#12, although (older) Omax looks the better pick for now. The real question hasn´t been answered yet. Will the Mavs regret not tanking properly a week earlier, securing the 9th spot, that would have enabled them to land Taylor Hendricks.

[ItsGoTime]

I guess I’m also much higher than most on Grant Williams. I think he might be the best player who changed teams in free agency this year, other than VanVleet, who the Mavs obviously had no use for.

He’s CUSTOM made for the role he’ll play here, and as we’ve seen, it’s not a super easy role to fill.

His build at 6’8” would be nice, but other than that, I agree.

[ItsGoTime]

I don’t think you get omax or Holmes in your first scenario because you don’t have the TPE from dumping Bertans to OKC.

It would be Capela, Whitmore, Bertans, MINUS Josh … OR … Lively, Omax, Holmes, KEEP Josh and still have Bertans out of here.

I think Bertans is the outgoing in the Atl trade, not THJ. Also, who else was gonna take Lively at 12-14? I think we still have Lively had we done the Atl trade. One thing to remember is Nico told OMax that he was gonna draft him, would have been different assets, but sounds like Nico was bound and determined to get the guy. So it would be Capela, Lively and OMax minus Green and whatever asset it took to get OMax (maybe or maybe not at 24 but it was there or earlier since we know Bos would have taken him at 25).

[Jason Terry]

The one thing I didn't see from KL in his defense of Lively is his switchability. Guards don't generally even try it against him. Isn't that the sort of thing Bam is prized for? *That's* why he's no dinosaur. I'm sure it would come as a big surprise to a great many NBA fans that Bam would have been a reach in this draft because he's a low-value defensive center.

Given JG and DL's passing skills, not to mention Luka, Kai, Curry, et al., this could be a great shot-creating team this year - if only Luka learns to knock off the Beard-Helio horsecrap.

This. The #1 reason for hope with Lively is that he’s fast enough to switch based on what he’s shown and scouting reports. He has a real chance to be a non-Dino big. He has some Bam in him. 

This reason and his character. He’s got a great story and i think he will be the type of hard worker that has a high floor

[DallasMaverick]

One of the things about the draft that hit me this year was how player evaluations that front offices make are only the starting point of their job. Another huge variable is the evaluations of other teams’ rosters, needs, and opinions of draftable players.

It’s not just about evaluating players in the draft. It’s about understanding all the little micro-markets contained within the draft.

To trade down from #10 to 12, the Mavs needed to understand picks #10 and #11, and be confident that neither team would take him. So they needed to know that both teams had their eye on a different player, either because they were drafting for need, and didn’t need a center, or were drafting the best available and had someone else ranked higher.

Same thing with the pick at 24. They had to have a really good idea of which teams were likely to pick OMax (in this case Boston, apparently, although there could have been others), and which picks were available (Sac was anxious to move off Holmes’ money).

So, a ginormous part of a GM’s job is studying other team’s rosters, knowing their coaches’ biases and preferred style of play, watching how playing time is allocated, maybe even doing a little psycho-analysis of how specific players respond to their roles, or the personalities of coach and teammates.

Reading posters on this board has given me an appreciation for the wild emotional swings that people can have on a given player in a very small amount of time. Stuff like “I’d happily give up our ‘27 first round pick just to never see player X on this team again”. I’m sure the same thing can happen ( to a lesser degree, of course) at the coach and GM level.

[HAguiar95]

I wouldn't say I'm satisfied (yet), but I'm pleased.

- Trading #10 + Bertans for #12 and TPE and still getting our guy was great. A+ move.

- Drafting Lively I'd give it a B, he was not my choice (I had Whitmore as the clear guy and George ahead of him).

- Using the TPE to absorb Holmes and get a late 1st for another guy that impressed you was good. Holmes could have a bounce back season (his contract is
bad, but worth a try, if it doesn't work he's at least a filler for a trade). I had O-Max as one of the role players that could help a contender, so I give it an B+.

- Re-signing Kyrie was a must and they've acomplished that without giving him a crap load of money. Grade A.

- Signing Curry to 8M/2y (2nd year NG) was ok I guess. B- move, since it didn't adress other needs (since Wood is gone shooting could've been a need).

- Signing Exum to a 6M/2y (2nd year NG) was a decent bet. B move, good candidate to have a bounce back season after euroleague.

- S&T for Williams (54/4) and 2 2nds using a swap of '30 DAL 1st and Bullock was a little steep of a price, but a worthy gamble for a young player on a position of need. B- move.

We didn't adress our biggest need (rebounding and paint protection) for this season, but I'm pleased we went younger and didn't "All-in" in a move for a veteran center, IMO we're still far away than just one move and it'd put great expectations on our squad. We can see a bright future long-term and still can compete shot-term, although not contending. We have options come TDL depending on how our season goes.

[hakeemfaan]

The one thing I didn't see from KL in his defense of Lively is his switchability. Guards don't generally even try it against him. Isn't that the sort of thing Bam is prized for? *That's* why he's no dinosaur. I'm sure it would come as a big surprise to a great many NBA fans that Bam would have been a reach in this draft because he's a low-value defensive center.

Given JG and DL's passing skills, not to mention Luka, Kai, Curry, et al., this could be a great shot-creating team this year - if only Luka learns to knock off the Beard-Helio horsecrap.

BAM also gets his share of points and is built like a football player.  That was true from day 1 of his being drafted.  That’s why Bam is valued. He is not a skinny guy who the team felt was raw and need to play in the G league for a couple of years.  

If Lively can play right away and hold his own against the big boys, then I am absolutelt wrong on my take. If however folks are saying that he is raw, needs strength and a few years to contribute in this league and his scoring is still a question mark, then that early in the draft he was the wrong pick.

[KillerLeft]

BAM also gets his share of points and is built like a football player.  That was true from day 1 of his being drafted.  That’s why Bam is valued. He is not a skinny guy who the team felt was raw and need to play in the G league for a couple of years.  

If Lively can play right away and hold his own against the big boys, then I am absolutelt wrong on my take. If however folks are saying that he is raw, needs strength and a few years to contribute in this league and his scoring is still a question mark, then that early in the draft he was the wrong pick.

There’s the difference. 

I like Lively specifically BECAUSE he’s skinny, at least in part. Sure, I think he could stand to put on some muscle, but not too much bulk, I hope. The lighter on his feet he stays, the longer into his career he’ll be able to stay effective, imo. 

Willie Cauley-Stein with a heart, brain, motor and maybe even a catch and shoot game? That’s the dream.