02-02-2024, 01:50 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2024, 01:51 AM by SleepingHero.)
(02-01-2024, 09:53 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: Just catching up on the Lebron stuff. I don't think Dallas has the right assets. If it's even being contemplated, the Lakers will need to sell something to the fan base. Doesn't it make a lot more sense to build a deal around Chris Paul and Kuminga, than anything Dallas can offer short of Kyrie?
If you're the Lakers and Lebron is demanding out, the thing you sell to the fans is that you're rebuilding.
Also let's face it, they're .500 this season and that's with Lebron and AD being healthy for basically 95% of it. They've reached their limit and I think Lebron sees it as well. He tweeted an hourglass emoji with the sand at the bottom, which could indicate the Lakers are out of time. As in they're cooked.
Plus, Lebron wouldn't be the juiciest asset they have. Its Davis. Unlike Lebron who will manufacture his perfect scenario (and the Lakers have to play ball given Rich Paul's client list and general Lebron pull), they can pretty much do whatever they want with AD.
If OKC wanted Davis they could easily throw 5 firsts for him plus whatever matching salary.
Getting 6 picks for Lebron and AD plus guys like Giddey, Hardy, Green, and OMax should be enough to restart and wait for the next free agent to inevitably force their way there.
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
LeBron might as well be in the Kobe stage of his career, when it was everybody else´s fault that the Lakers sucked, but then turned out Randle, Ingram, Ball, Russell, Zubac, Hart and company are pretty good players. And if he goes to a team that does not get the benefit of the whistle like the Lakers it might just get worse. I´d still take him here, because we are kind of desperate, but I´m a team like the Thunder or Knicks, I´m not sure I´m messing with my team chemistry for him.
As a Mavs fan, I really like this. If the Lakers do have to trade Lebron, they would want less long-term salary from us. I think you'd probably have to find a third team to take on some of our contracts. I also think they might prefer Holmes over Kleber or Grant as his contract is shorter. I like the addition of Prince and Reddish though.
I have said before, I am not yet qualified to discuss Kuzma. I don't watch Wizards games besides them playing us. I am a little surprised with the large dislike of him as a trade target here. I think a lot of it will depend on the asking price, but from afar he would seem like a decent upgrade. Not a final piece, but 1 of 5 who would be finishing games.
I am sure the distractors have valid concerns and they may be right, I am just a little surprised it seems like the majority here are out on any acquisition of him.
(02-02-2024, 08:42 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: As a Mavs fan, I really like this. If the Lakers do have to trade Lebron, they would want less long-term salary from us. I think you'd probably have to find a third team to take on some of our contracts. I also think they might prefer Holmes over Kleber or Grant as his contract is shorter. I like the addition of Prince and Reddish though.
I agree. Holmes/Maxi/Williams. Lakers just pick 2/3. Doesn’t matter to the Mavs, it all shakes out about the same.
The Orlando Magic are not playing Goga much lately. 2 consecutive DNPs and average 7 minutes per game over the past 4 games. WCJ has played well recently and is apparently no longer available for trade. Mo Wagner gives them good offense off the bench. I think Goga should be available so here's a trade that I'm sure others have suggested previously:
Mavs send THJ to Orlando.
Magic send Fultz and Goga to the Mavs.
The Magic's guard rotation beyond Suggs hasn't been very good this season. Cole Anthony is around 33% from 3 this year which isn't good enough for a team that lacks shooters. Anthony Black has been good for a rookie but is still a net negative in the advanced stats stuff. THJ would be welcome there.
We'd solve our backup big problem and I believe we'd have early bird rights on Goga this coming off-season. Losing the THJ contract also should permit us to re-sign both Goga and DJJ.
(02-02-2024, 08:47 AM)surfpuckmd Wrote: The Orlando Magic are not playing Goga much lately. 2 consecutive DNPs and average 7 minutes per game over the past 4 games. WCJ has played well recently and is apparently no longer available for trade. Mo Wagner gives them good offense off the bench. I think Goga should be available so here's a trade that I'm sure others have suggested previously:
Mavs send THJ to Orlando.
Magic send Fultz and Goga to the Mavs.
The Magic's guard rotation beyond Suggs hasn't been very good this season. Cole Anthony is around 33% from 3 this year which isn't good enough for a team that lacks shooters. Anthony Black has been good for a rookie but is still a net negative in the advanced stats stuff. THJ would be welcome there.
We'd solve our backup big problem and I believe we'd have early bird rights on Goga this coming off-season. Losing the THJ contract also should permit us to re-sign both Goga and DJJ.
We'd need Hardy to replace THJ.
Interesting. How about making it a 3 team trade.
Mavs get Goga and Kuzma
Magic get Hardaway
Wizards get Mavs 27 first, Denver's first this year held by Orlando and Fultz
Dallas and Sacramento remain the two teams connected by league figures to Washington forward Kyle Kuzma. The Mavericks appear to be pursuing a much wider range of players than the Kings. Sacramento and Dallas both registered interest in Siakam and Grant, league sources told Yahoo Sports. But aside from the Kuzma connection, whom the Kings have pursued dating back to his Lakers days, Sacramento isn’t currently known to be pursuing other roster upgrades that would require parting with Harrison Barnes, sources said, and he could very well stick in Sacramento beyond the deadline. The Mavericks, meanwhile, continue to be connected to other forwards such as Washington, Dorian Finney-Smith and Andrew Wiggins.
Phoenix has been looking for an athletic wing to add into their lineup.
Quote:The Hawks continue to be described by rival executives as the most active and aggressive team in the marketplace, motivated to discuss the majority of its veteran players, highlighted by All-Star guard Dejounte Murray — arguably the best player known to be available. Elsewhere on the roster, Atlanta has held its most notable discussions on Clint Capela, De’Andre Hunter and AJ Griffin, according to league sources, dating back to the offseason. It’s become clear that Atlanta values Sixth Man of the Year candidate Bogdan Bogdanovic as highly as any player on its roster not named Trae Young and Jalen Johnson, according to league sources.
You guys are killing it with the Lebron trade talk. I love it. My 2cents.
A Lebron trade would never happen. The only way it happens, if Lebron wants it. Remember this is a player's league. And he's the top dog. If we wants to get traded he will, and it will be to whatever team he wants.
The return will ONLY be players he doesn't care to play with. So Lively being one of the outgoing is a negative. This would truly be salary matching and draft picks. Lebron is basically his own GM. He would be sitting in Pelinka's office on speaker phone with Nico and Cuban ironing out the trade details. That's how powerful he is.
With that said, if he wants a trade. i believe Dallas would be in the top 2 or 3 teams he'd want to go to. He only asks to be traded if he sees a championship. Lebron on this team is an instant championship team. I think the trade would be Hardaway, GWill, Holmes, Hardy for Lebron and either Hayes or Reddish. With our picks involved also.
In my opinion, Golden State is probably the leader in this field. They have larger contracts they can send out (Wiggins, Paul, Draymond). But i bet he'd want to play with CP3 and Draymond. I wonder if this would be a Klay(expiring) + a few assets for Lebron. Klay + Moody is a perfect match for Lebron.
They could still move Wiggins/Kuminga in separate trades to add more.
The argument is which team would be better with Lebron?
(02-02-2024, 10:19 AM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: You guys are killing it with the Lebron trade talk. I love it. My 2cents.
A Lebron trade would never happen. The only way it happens, if Lebron wants it. Remember this is a player's league. And he's the top dog. If we wants to get traded he will, and it will be to whatever team he wants.
The return will ONLY be players he doesn't care to play with. So Lively being one of the outgoing is a negative. This would truly be salary matching and draft picks. Lebron is basically his own GM. He would be sitting in Pelinka's office on speaker phone with Nico and Cuban ironing out the trade details. That's how powerful he is.
With that said, if he wants a trade. i believe Dallas would be in the top 2 or 3 teams he'd want to go to. He only asks to be traded if he sees a championship. Lebron on this team is an instant championship team. I think the trade would be Hardaway, GWill, Holmes, Hardy for Lebron and either Hayes or Reddish. With our picks involved also.
In my opinion, Golden State is probably the leader in this field. They have larger contracts they can send out (Wiggins, Paul, Draymond). But i bet he'd want to play with CP3 and Draymond. I wonder if this would be a Klay(expiring) + a few assets for Lebron. Klay + Moody is a perfect match for Lebron.
They could still move Wiggins/Kuminga in separate trades to add more.
The argument is which team would be better with Lebron?
Luka, Lebron, Kyrie, Lively, etc.
or
Steph, Lebron, Draymond, CP3, etc.
I don't think Lebron is going anywhere, but as you say it will be Lebron driven and those two teams are close enough that the Luka/Kyrie/Kidd connection probably wins out. If those are the only players going out, then we are probably doing every pick swap available in addition to the picks we have, which is scary considering Lebron/Kyrie could be gone in a year.
02-02-2024, 10:58 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2024, 11:00 AM by Nowitzki Way.)
(02-02-2024, 10:46 AM)mvossman Wrote: I don't think Lebron is going anywhere, but as you say it will be Lebron driven and those two teams are close enough that the Luka/Kyrie/Kidd connection probably wins out. If those are the only players going out, then we are probably doing every pick swap available in addition to the picks we have, which is scary considering Lebron/Kyrie could be gone in a year.
I'm leaning towards the Mavs having the biggest connection for Lebron. Kyrie/ Kidd/ Luka / Nico is huge in itself. But it may or may not matter, but Dudley is on our staff from that Championship team. Markieff Morris is also here from that 2020 championship team.
This is the one time i'd be ok going all in with picks. It would be a terrible idea looking back in a year or two. But it would be fun to watch play out this year.
Catching up with several pages of this thread has been entertaining. Kuzma seemed like it had momentum and some people seemed to be talking them themselves into it and then suddenly.....BAM. Its all about Lebron.
I'm going to chose to ignore the Lebron thing. I don't want it to happen. I get that it's LeBron, but I've never liked him (respect him, but don't like him) and I don't want to cheer for him. Trade matching is disruptive and difficult. I don't like his age and contract. What we'll have left when he's done with us will be total desolation. I'd rather Luka try to win this without this type of help.
I've been interested in Washington as a trade partner and I'm fine with Kuzma. The Kuzma/Kidd connection was new information to me and another reason to think this might have legs. I go back and forth with whether I'd prefer a THJ based outgoing package (which presumably leaves GWill here as a backup) or a GWill based package (which presumably leaves THJ here as a backup). It is interesting (at least to me) that THJ's money misses matching Kuzma's money by a few thousand. It is almost like they designed the first year to force Dallas to add a player to any THJ based deal.
Washington wants picks, so 2027 in some form or fashion is gone in this deal. If you are them and take an objective view of our roster and what they will build around, they probably don't value Hardy (with Poole there) and probably would value OMax as part of a Avdija/Bilal/OMax wing group. To me, OMax and 2027 (and say Hardaway) is too much for Kuzma. It may take that, but I'd prefer the 2027 pick not be unprotected if we do. Would I go unprotected if Gafford/Holmes was included? Probably. THJ/OMax/2027 for Kuzma/Gafford? Kuzma isn't dramatically different than THJ. But, we have guys who can play guard and need more wing size. Kuzma rebounds better and passes/creates better and is a better fit in the starting lineup and in 'any two-of' lineups with Luka or Kyrie. But, the main thing is he has a defensive gear (when he choses to use it) that THJ just doesn't have. Gafford solves the backup C issue for years to come. So, yeah, I'd do it.
The idea that we somehow could add Avdija to the above is nuts. We don't have the juice for all three. I'd be more than fine though if Avdija was substituted for Kuzma. Maybe that deal is GWill/Holmes/OMax/2027 for Avdija/Gafford. That makes a ton of sense to me. One other reminder...Shamet has a very flexible contract and Washington has a TPE that can absorb either of Holmes or GWill. So some of the consideration for a deal with them can be future roster building tools that don't get cashed in until the summer.
(02-02-2024, 10:59 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: Catching up with several pages of this thread has been entertaining. Kuzma seemed like it had momentum and some people seemed to be talking them themselves into it and then suddenly.....BAM. Its all about Lebron.
I'm going to chose to ignore the Lebron thing. I don't want it to happen. I get that it's LeBron, but I've never liked him (respect him, but don't like him) and I don't want to cheer for him. Trade matching is disruptive and difficult. I don't like his age and contract. What we'll have left when he's done with us will be total desolation. I'd rather Luka try to win this without this type of help.
I've been interested in Washington as a trade partner and I'm fine with Kuzma. The Kuzma/Kidd connection was new information to me and another reason to think this might have legs. I go back and forth with whether I'd prefer a THJ based outgoing package (which presumably leaves GWill here as a backup) or a GWill based package (which presumably leaves THJ here as a backup). It is interesting (at least to me) that THJ's money misses matching Kuzma's money by a few thousand. It is almost like they designed the first year to force Dallas to add a player to any THJ based deal.
Washington wants picks, so 2027 in some form or fashion is gone in this deal. If you are them and take an objective view of our roster and what they will build around, they probably don't value Hardy (with Poole there) and probably would value OMax as part of a Avdija/Bilal/OMax wing group. To me, OMax and 2027 (and say Hardaway) is too much for Kuzma. It may take that, but I'd prefer the 2027 pick not be unprotected if we do. Would I go unprotected if Gafford/Holmes was included? Probably. THJ/OMax/2027 for Kuzma/Gafford? Kuzma isn't dramatically different than THJ. But, we have guys who can play guard and need more wing size. Kuzma rebounds better and passes/creates better and is a better fit in the starting lineup and in 'any two-of' lineups with Luka or Kyrie. But, the main thing is he has a defensive gear (when he choses to use it) that THJ just doesn't have. Gafford solves the backup C issue for years to come. So, yeah, I'd do it.
The idea that we somehow could add Avdija to the above is nuts. We don't have the juice for all three. I'd be more than fine though if Avdija was substituted for Kuzma. Maybe that deal is GWill/Holmes/OMax/2027 for Avdija/Gafford. That makes a ton of sense to me. One other reminder...Shamet has a very flexible contract and Washington has a TPE that can absorb either of Holmes or GWill. So some of the consideration for a deal with them can be future roster building tools that don't get cashed in until the summer.
I find it a little interesting that you do not like Lebron (understandable) but have no issues with Kuz (a douche).
I would much rather send out GWill than Timmy. I have lost hope that he can be a positive contributor.
So we are sending out OMax and a first for Kuz? What a disaster. Omax will probably be a better fit in 2 years.
I'm really skeptical of this defensive gear Kuz supposedly has. GWill had a much better argument before coming here.
A first and our best prospect for a minor Timmy upgrade who is a douche. I'm getting depressed. Lets talk Lebron some more.
(02-02-2024, 10:59 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: The idea that we somehow could add Avdija to the above is nuts. We don't have the juice for all three. I'd be more than fine though if Avdija was substituted for Kuzma. Maybe that deal is GWill/Holmes/OMax/2027 for Avdija/Gafford. That makes a ton of sense to me. One other reminder...Shamet has a very flexible contract and Washington has a TPE that can absorb either of Holmes or GWill. So some of the consideration for a deal with them can be future roster building tools that don't get cashed in until the summer.
I think if we make a big trade, its with Washington. And you might have the framework close to what the final piece looks like.
We dont have enough for all 3 of Kuzma/Gafford/Avdija. But i think its one of Kuz/Deni + Gafford. i think a 3rd piece like Tyus Jones or Shamet gets added.
I think the trade comes out to something like this:
Mavs:
THJ/GWill/Holmes/OMAx/2027/2nds
for
Kuzma/Gafford/Tyus Jones
Maybe this is a 3team where THJ goes somewhere like Orlando and the picks go to Washington.
02-02-2024, 11:43 AM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2024, 11:44 AM by DanSchwartzgan.)
(02-02-2024, 11:34 AM)mvossman Wrote: So we are sending out OMax and a first for Kuz? What a disaster. Omax will probably be a better fit in 2 years.
Read more closely.
"To me, OMax and 2027 (and say Hardaway) is too much for Kuzma. It may take that, but I'd prefer the 2027 pick not be unprotected if we do. Would I go unprotected if Gafford/Holmes was included? Probably."
(02-02-2024, 11:39 AM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: I think if we make a big trade, its with Washington. And you might have the framework close to what the final piece looks like.
We dont have enough for all 3 of Kuzma/Gafford/Avdija. But i think its one of Kuz/Deni + Gafford. i think a 3rd piece like Tyus Jones or Shamet gets added.
I think the trade comes out to something like this:
Mavs:
THJ/GWill/Holmes/OMAx/2027/2nds
for
Kuzma/Gafford/Tyus Jones
Maybe this is a 3team where THJ goes somewhere like Orlando and the picks go to Washington.
Maybe for Shamet. I doubt that package gets you Jones along with Kuz/Gafford.
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