Trade & FA 2023-24: HOU Targeting Mikal Bridges again!| Mitchell is LAL #1 Target

[SleepingHero]

Interesting..if true

https://twitter.com/OptimistWolves/statu...75042?s=20

I just realized if the Cavs went all in on Naz Reid... What does that say about their opinion on Jarrett Allen?

[SleepingHero]

Yup.  In this new CBA you can't pay that type of money for a Robin who is known to disappear once in a while.  Is Brown even a top-10 player?  I have him somewhere between 15-20.

I have him 24th:

1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Steph
4. Durant
5. Luka
6. Tatum
7. Embiid
8. Kawhi 
9. Davis
10. Lebron
11. Booker
12. Butler
13. Dame
14. SGA 
15. Mitchell
16. Morant
17. Trae  
18. Bam
19. Lauri
20. Fox
21. Kyrie
22. Ant
23. Siakam
24. Brown

[Chicagojk]

Tough to judge contracts nowadays. Supposedly premium co tracts are going to explode with the new cba. There may be some 100 million dollar players during this new cba. It is going to be interesting when a star is maki g close to a 100 million per year but a good player is only getting MLE numbers . I interesting locker room dynamics.

[omahen]

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/...45025?s=20

Bobby Marks (@BobbyMarks42)
Here is the breakdown on the Jaylen Brown super max extension in Boston:

2024-2025 $52,368,085

2025-2026 $56,557,532

2026-2027 $60,746,979

2027-2028 $64,936,425

2028-2029 $69,125,872

Total $303,734,893



This is going to be the worst contract in the NBA starting next year.

Do you think it is better for Boston to be without Brown? I guess this is the price of trying to contend. But their window will likely be short, as it will be very difficult to build around them in two years, once Tatum signs his supermax.

[mvossman]

Do you think it is better for Boston to be without Brown? I guess this is the price of trying to contend. But their window will likely be short, as it will be very difficult to build around them in two years, once Tatum signs his supermax.

Arguably they would have been better off trading him for assets before it got to this.  They lost Williams and Smart and are counting on a big three with Tatum, Brown and an oft injured KP.  Call me very skeptical it ends well.

[F Gump]

Tough to judge contracts nowadays.  Supposedly premium contracts are going to explode with the new cba.  There may be some 100 million dollar players during this new cba.  It is going to be interesting when a star is making close to a 100 million per year but a good player is only getting MLE numbers. I interesting locker room dynamics.

It's all relative. Each year, the size of every level of pay is now designed to stay the same percentage relative to each other. Max players get 25, 30 or 35% of the cap, and an MLE player gets a bit under 10%. But yes, we can rest assured that ALL of them will end up thinking they are getting the short end of the stick, even though they are all getting lottery-jackpot-sized payouts of varying sizes year after year.

[SleepingHero]

Do you think it is better for Boston to be without Brown? I guess this is the price of trying to contend. But their window will likely be short, as it will be very difficult to build around them in two years, once Tatum signs his supermax.

I don't believe lambasting an obviously bad contract means I'm in favor for the opposite outcome (and an extreme end of it).

Brown at the end of the day wants the most amount of money possible. Boston is the only team that can offer that.

Lets imagine a world where Boston does decide to enact some of their leverage and play hardball (because at the end of the day they are the ones writing the checks).

Brown probably gets mad, talks go to a stalemate, and Brown heads to free agency next year. The most he could get from any other team would be 30% of ~142 mil and 5% max raises for 4 years. It'd come out to a starting salary of 42.8 mil, and the total contract would be 4 years/184 mil. Vs. Boston gave him a supermax worth 35%, 8% max raises, AND a 5th year worth 5 years 304 mil.

Boston could easily have waited, offered Brown 5 years, 8% max raises, and 30% of the cap and they'd still blow away everyone else's offers. Are they risking Brown walking for free? Sure. Are they better off having him? Sure. Did they just sign him to the worst contract in the league? 100%.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I just realized if the Cavs went all in on Naz Reid... What does that say about their opinion on Jarrett Allen?

That he isn't remotely a stretch big which is what they need next to Mobley. J.Allen has made 25 3ptrs in 8 years, lol.  Naz doesn't shoot a high percentage, but did make more than 1 3ptr a game last season.

This is wonderful news for the Mavs.  Something like J.Allen/Wade for Wood/THJ/27FRP.

[SleepingHero]

It's all relative. Each year, the size of every level of pay is now designed to stay the same percentage relative to each other. Max players get 25, 30 or 35% of the cap, and an MLE player gets a bit under 10%. But yes, we can rest assured that ALL of them will end up thinking they are getting the short end of the stick, even though they are all getting lottery-jackpot-sized payouts of varying sizes year after year.

It's  sickening how much these guys are starting to get paid and the primadonna BS they pull. I thought it was crazy back in the days the salary of guys like Kobe/Dirk/KG that were getting paid 25+ mil but figured at the end of the day they were well deserved for their talents. Now we have a 2x all star getting paid 60 mil a year and most people think that's fine because "Boston HAS to just pay market value"

Sure, guys like Lebron, Luka, Tatum, Curry, Giannis, etc. could arguably be worth that much (or even more) but Jaylen Brown...?

Don't get me wrong he's a good player and I'd love to have him on the Mavs but he will never be worth a top 5 contract in the league.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Do you think it is better for Boston to be without Brown? I guess this is the price of trying to contend. But their window will likely be short, as it will be very difficult to build around them in two years, once Tatum signs his supermax.

I'd rather what you could have gotten for J.Brown prior to this contract.

[omahen]

I don't believe lambasting an obviously bad contract means I'm in favor for the opposite outcome (and an extreme end of it).

Brown at the end of the day wants the most amount of money possible. Boston is the only team that can offer that.

Lets imagine a world where Boston does decide to enact some of their leverage and play hardball (because at the end of the day they are the ones writing the checks).

Brown probably gets mad, talks go to a stalemate, and Brown heads to free agency next year. The most he could get from any other team would be 30% of ~142 mil and 5% max raises for 4 years. It'd come out to a starting salary of 42.8 mil, and the total contract would be 4 years/184 mil. Vs. Boston gave him a supermax worth 35%, 8% max raises, AND a 5th year worth 5 years 304 mil.

Boston could easily have waited, offered Brown 5 years, 8% max raises, and 30% of the cap and they'd still blow away everyone else's offers. Are they risking Brown walking for free? Sure. Are they better off having him? Sure. Did they just sign him to the worst contract in the league? 100%.

I am not sure why you are assuming Boston didn't try everything you described. I think it is obvious it was Brown wanted nothing less than supermax. He is 26 and he is an elite two way player. Perhaps not the best on any end, but likely top 30 in each category. Not many players like that in the league. I think he is far from worst contract in the league. Beal, Lillard, Gobert, Towns are supermax (or near supermax) deals that are all far worse than Brown contract, imho. All offer much less than Brown either on offense or defense. All also much older. Brown is only entering his prime. 

I am also not sure trading him would be a better move. What chance there is to find a player nearly as good as him. Thinking more about it, it will be possible to build around 2 super max contracts. There just won't be place for 30 mil players. 6 or 7 guys paid on average some 12 or 13 mil can still be very good supporting cast.

[omahen]

I'd rather what you could have gotten for J.Brown prior to this contract.

I don't agree. This team was in the finals 2 years ago and in ECF last season. This team is very, very close and both stars are still very young. I don't think you can break this up and hope to end up better. They still have most of their draft assets. Well positioned. 

The questionable move was KP, imho. Especially because it cost them Smart to do it, who seemed to be the heart of the team. I just don't believe this move makes them better. Not to mention how I think 30 mil for KP is a real overpay.

[KillerLeft]

The questionable move was KP, imho. Especially because it cost them Smart to do it, who seemed to be the heart of the team. I just don't believe this move makes them better. Not to mention how I think 30 mil for KP is a real overpay.

Definitely agree with this. Simmons, the ultimate Celtics fan, has talked quite a bit about the new Celtics direction. It all seems to be driven by Stevens' staunch support of the new coach, who most people aren't too sure they like, including Simmons. The two guys he didn't vibe with the most were Smart and Williams, and they were also two of the most key components of the team's defensive identity. That defensive identity is pretty much what has kept the team at the top of the league recently. Now, with Porzingis and without Smart/Williams, their entire defensive philosophy has to change. The team hopes having a post option in Porzingis (lololol) will help to fix some of the late game awkwardness the team has suffered offensively in big games, but Mavs fans should know better, imo. Even Celtics fans and the team, itself, understands that the defense is about to take a pretty big hit.

Personally, I feel like Boston is about to take a significant step backwards, but I could be wrong.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I have him 24th:

1. Jokic
2. Giannis
3. Steph
4. Durant
5. Luka
6. Tatum
7. Embiid
8. Kawhi 
9. Davis
10. Lebron
11. Booker
12. Butler
13. Dame
14. SGA 
15. Mitchell
16. Morant
17. Trae  
18. Bam
19. Lauri
20. Fox
21. Kyrie
22. Ant
23. Siakam
24. Brown

Damn good list.  I could pick at it, but pretty solid.  Kawhi IMO is too high given his unavailability.

[F Gump]

Thinking more about it, it will be possible to build around 2 super max contracts. There just won't be place for 30 mil players. 6 or 7 guys paid on average some 12 or 13 mil can still be very good supporting cast.

Depends on how you define "possible." Technically, you could have 15 supermax contracts if you want to pay the massive tax and deal with the CBA ramifications. But as a practical consideration, not so much.

The numbers to do a roster of 2-supermax, with another 6-7 MLE sized contracts to help them, puts a team far over the 2nd apron. 

Look at PHX with 2 supermax, a 30% max, a 25% max - basically just a 4-man roster -- and then all they can do is minimum salary. And even with all minimums they are hopelessly over apron 2. Maybe they can make that work, but it sure feels like with no depth, they are an injury here or there from disaster.

[omahen]

Depends on how you define "possible." Technically, you could have 15 supermax contracts if you want to pay the massive tax and deal with the CBA ramifications. But as a practical consideration, not so much.

The numbers to do a roster of 2-supermax, with another 6-7 MLE sized contracts to help them, puts a team far over the 2nd apron. 

Look at PHX with 2 supermax, a 30% max, a 25% max - basically just a 4-man roster -- and then all they can do is minimum salary. And even with all minimums they are hopelessly over apron 2. Maybe they can make that work, but it sure feels like with no depth, they are an injury here or there from disaster.

Boston will have two supermax deals in 2025-2026. With projected continous rise of the salary cap, the second apron could be over 200 mil by then. Two supermax contracts in 2025-2026 will be roughly 110 mil. This leaves 90 mil for rest of the team.

Edit: corrected the numbers

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

I don't agree. This team was in the finals 2 years ago and in ECF last season. This team is very, very close and both stars are still very young. I don't think you can break this up and hope to end up better. They still have most of their draft assets. Well positioned. 

The questionable move was KP, imho. Especially because it cost them Smart to do it, who seemed to be the heart of the team. I just don't believe this move makes them better. Not to mention how I think 30 mil for KP is a real overpay.

IMO, Smart took a step back last season.  Lot's of bonehead plays that cost them.  I think the KP trade will be looked at as brilliant.  I would have gotten Dame for J.Brown.

[Jym]

Definitely agree with this. Simmons, the ultimate Celtics fan, has talked quite a bit about the new Celtics direction. It all seems to be driven by Stevens' staunch support of the new coach, who most people aren't too sure they like, including Simmons. The two guys he didn't vibe with the most were Smart and Williams, and they were also two of the most key components of the team's defensive identity. That defensive identity is pretty much what has kept the team at the top of the league recently. Now, with Porzingis and without Smart/Williams, their entire defensive philosophy has to change. The team hopes having a post option in Porzingis (lololol) will help to fix some of the late game awkwardness the team has suffered offensively in big games, but Mavs fans should know better, imo. Even Celtics fans and the team, itself, understands that the defense is about to take a pretty big hit.

Personally, I feel like Boston is about to take a significant step backwards, but I could be wrong.

As the resident KP supporter, I'm picking Smart + Williams all day, every day over KP. Especially if you include that stupid $30 mil a year extension. Talk about bidding against yourself. That doesn't make any damn sense to me

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

As the resident KP supporter, I'm picking Smart + Williams all day, every day over KP. Especially if you include that stupid $30 mil a year extension. Talk about bidding against yourself. That doesn't make any damn sense to me

Williams is still there.  Why is that a choice?

[KillerLeft]

Williams is still there.  Why is that a choice?

Williams plays for Dallas, my man. I think you're thinking of Robert Williams, but we're talking about Grant Williams.